Is Paul Johnson Bad for the ACC?

[Jean-Baptiste Rochambeau]

In defense of the ACC and contrary to that guys "article", the ACC was once again 2nd to the SEC in players drafted by the NFL in 2014. SEC had 49 total picks, while the ACC had 42 total picks, so shows that the ACC is getting their share of talent.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-dr...und-picks-schools-conferences-recruit-ratings

I wrote it in another thread, but I believe the only thing holding the ACC back is better coaching. The ACC doesn't have the coaching roster that the SEC has, or even some of the other conferences like PAC12/Big 10/Big 12.

First of all, that site is notorious for over the top stuff--and it is the offseason. But you are exactly right, college football is all about coaching, the right coach at the right school. Georgia with Goff compared to Georgia with Richt. The school, facilities, everything stays the same just plug in the right coach and , VOILA! The high school talent in Georgia lures many programs here and the competition is fierce. We probably never have done too well in state, but look at what we are up against. It is interesting that FSU hasn't gotten more Georgia Top 30 players. And we have a lot of things working against us--the entrance requirements, the urban setting, the curriculum, the RATIO. This is a hatchet article, a negative article to be sure, but the writer's points are also valid in many ways. We aren't particularly good right now, we haven't beaten Georgia enough, we go to crappy bowls and lose, we play cupcakes that we can't give the tickets away for. These are valid but probably not all Paul Johnson's fault. The question that has to be answered is: Is he the VOILA coach for us?

 

[Jean-Baptiste Rochambeau]

LOL. That's the most creative attempt at twisting facts that I've seen. But there is a compliment he is giving GT without realizing it - of the 15 schools in the ACC, the most important team is GT.

The same comparison could be made for the state of South Carolina, where the set up is the same, i.e., big state university in the SEC with the only other big time program in the ACC. South Carolina doesn't produce the players that Georgia does, and so consequently they aren't recruited as heavily, but there is a parallel, I bet. I don't know the numbers, but I would predict that the SEC signs many more of the elite recruits from SC that does the ACC. Is that Dabo's fault? And if Paul Johnson leaves Georgia Tech, will the ACC recruit better in both Georgia AND South Carolina? Recruiting is a function of the head coach. Paul Johnson will never be Urban Meyer, Jimbo Fisher, Steve Spurrier, or Nick Saban with respect to recruiting. But in my mind, even Saban would have recruiting challenges if he coached the Yellow Jackets. It is not a level playing field.

 

[jeffgt14]

The same comparison could be made for the state of South Carolina, where the set up is the same, i.e., big state university in the SEC with the only other big time program in the ACC. South Carolina doesn't produce the players that Georgia does, and so consequently they aren't recruited as heavily, but there is a parallel, I bet. I don't know the numbers, but I would predict that the SEC signs many more of the elite recruits from SC that does the ACC. Is that Dabo's fault? And if Paul Johnson leaves Georgia Tech, will the ACC recruit better in both Georgia AND South Carolina? Recruiting is a function of the head coach. Paul Johnson will never be Urban Meyer, Jimbo Fisher, Steve Spurrier, or Nick Saban with respect to recruiting. But in my mind, even Saban would have recruiting challenges if he coached the Yellow Jackets. It is not a level playing field.

Clemson and SC are usually neck and neck in recruiting. SC’s only advantage is having Steve Spurrier as head coach and being in the SEC. Other than that I don’t believe they have near the history of Clemson. They really haven’t been of any significance until Spurrier got there. I do think an equal portion of both teams talent are split usually between NC, SC, GA, & FL.

 

[Jean-Baptiste Rochambeau]

Clemson and SC are usually neck and neck in recruiting. SC’s only advantage is having Steve Spurrier as head coach and being in the SEC. Other than that I don’t believe they have near the history of Clemson. They really haven’t been of any significance until Spurrier got there. I do think an equal portion of both teams talent are split usually between NC, SC, GA, & FL.

I know Clemson recruits against USC better than we recruit against Georgia. I was trying to say, I bet the ACC still falls behind the SEC in recruiting South Carolina high schools. Someone else said it, but the ACC's problem in recruiting is being the ACC.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

This was funny and coming from an UNC graduate real funny. Pot meets kettle when talking about fan bases.
1 point I do agree with however is that the ACC institutions need to do a better job of recruiting Georgia especially Tech. That's just bottom line.

I agree with most of this, but not necessarily the last part. CPJ came in with a very strong plan of recruiting the state of Georgia hard and it was almost to his demise. Our ideal recruits come from outside the state where academic standards and performance are much higher. We're still looking for needles in haystacks but nationally, there's way more needles.

 

[00Burdell]

Our ideal recruits come from outside the state where academic standards and performance are much higher. We're still looking for needles in haystacks but nationally, there's way more needles.

Historically, not sure I agree. I'd have to check again but I think the GT Hall of Football Fame is pretty stocked with young men from the state of Georgia.

Second thing is that its fine for Tech to think of itself as a "National Recruiter" - it fits the mold of the school but unlike the school, kids from around the world aren't beating our door down athletically like they do academically. And while there are, as you say, more needles outside of Georgia, it takes big dollars to find them. Curiously, dRad denied our program access to those extra needed funds but, as we all know, mBob has fixed this and hopefully, we can scour the countryside. But my optimism is guarded.

We cannot concede the state of Georgia and hope to be more than the occasional flash in the pan.

 

[nodawgs]

Well I have literally zero knowledge of any of this because I couldn't care less about high school football and their coaches. Especially from Georgia (I think you mentioned being a coach so it's nothing personal just born, raised, and currently live in the northeast). But I will say I'm not arguing at all with what you're saying about winning over high school coaches. Makes sense to me. But read the quote.



You and this guy are not saying the same thing. You're speculating on an apparent disconnect, which I'd love to see some actual evidence for that claim too btw, and why it's there while he's making a blanket statement. And I'd wager a lot that he doesn't have enough info to back that claim up. But he says it's reality so I guess I should listen to him. Then he uses that statement as the reason the ACC, a conference of 14 teams, doesn't recruit Georgia well. Yea ok. Click bait.

Fair assessment. Like I said, it would be just speculation as to why there is a disconnect. He could be correct, but I can't say for sure if it's arrogance toward HS coaches. My guess would be a little laziness and neglecting HS coaches. Again that is just a guess.

On a related note...Coaching clinics are a big deal to HS coaches. Back when I was still coaching, I went to Auburn (Tuberville), Georgia (Richt), and GT (Gailey). I was pumped to go to Tech's, but honestly it was a letdown. The difference was that Gailey didn't have a clue as to how to relate to HS coaches. It was good, but nowhere near what the other two were in terms of hospitality and atmosphere. Well, there was a Buzz when CPJ was hired at Tech, and it looked like HS relations would take a turn for the better. For a short time it did, but has slipped way back down to where it was when Gailey was running the show.

 

[augustabuzz]

Historically, not sure I agree. I'd have to check again but I think the GT Hall of Football Fame is pretty stocked with young men from the state of Georgia.

Second thing is that its fine for Tech to think of itself as a "National Recruiter" - it fits the mold of the school but unlike the school, kids from around the world aren't beating our door down athletically like they do academically. And while there are, as you say, more needles outside of Georgia, it takes big dollars to find them. Curiously, dRad denied our program access to those extra needed funds but, as we all know, mBob has fixed this and hopefully, we can scour the countryside. But my optimism is guarded.

We cannot concede the state of Georgia and hope to be more than the occasional flash in the pan.

Over the decades that I was either involved in or observed recruiting at Tech, only 10 to 20% of the top recruits can get into Tech. If you call that "conceding the State of Georgia" , then it is what it has always been.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Are you suggesting it would behoove us to recruit the HS coaches akin to how we recruit the HS players?

I can follow that logic, if you are. I've always felt that the better our relationships with HS coaches, the better we're going to recruit in their schools.

 

[ATL1]

Let me add I see NO reason why UNC and the rest of tobacco road, Clemson, & FSU aren't recruiting the state of vigorously.

 

[forensicbuzz]

The proximity of Clemson, Auburn and FSU to hotbeds of Georgia HS Football plays into this as well. Many of these kids live closer to these out-of-state schools than they do to either GT or UGA. Many of them grew up rooting for these border schools.

 

[hdgtfan]

This is a great point, schools like Auburn, Clemson and FSU are very close to the Georgia border and are all recently more powerful and successful in football than we have been

 

[GTRX7]

...college football is all about coaching, the right coach at the right school. Georgia with Goff compared to Georgia with Richt. The school, facilities, everything stays the same just plug in the right coach and , VOILA!

I disagree with you here that it is "all about coaching." I have pointed this out before, but I think that the right school matters a good bit more than the right coach. Here is just some data for some of the top/relevant coaches at difference schools:

Bobby Bowden - W. Va. 62%. FSU - 75%
Spurrier - Duke 59%, Florida 81%, SC 66%
Les Miles - Ok St, 57%, LSU 80%
Saban - Mich. St., 58%, LSU 75%, Bama 83%
Mack Brown - UNC 59%, Texas 77 %
Bill Curry - Tech 42%, Bama 72%, UK 33%, Ga St. 30%
Paul Johnson - GSU 86%, Navy 61%, Tech 60%

As can be seen, the same exact coaches have widely varying success depending on the school (and predictably so based on the school). While coaches matters, I think the school seems to matter a lot more.

 

[GTNavyNuke]

I disagree with you here that it is "all about coaching." I have pointed this out before, but I think that the right school matters a good bit more than the right coach. Here is just some data for some of the top/relevant coaches at difference schools:

Bobby Bowden - W. Va. 62%. FSU - 75%
Spurrier - Duke 59%, Florida 81%, SC 66%
Les Miles - Ok St, 57%, LSU 80%
Saban - Mich. St., 58%, LSU 75%, Bama 83%
Mack Brown - UNC 59%, Texas 77 %
Bill Curry - Tech 42%, Bama 72%, UK 33%, Ga St. 30%
Paul Johnson - GSU 86%, Navy 61%, Tech 60%

As can be seen, the same exact coaches have widely varying success depending on the school (and predictably so based on the school). While coaches matters, I think the school seems to matter a lot more.

Studies on the Bleacher Report have siad the same thing. The school is more determinant for success than coach. But you can't change the school and you can change the coach.

 

[yellojello]

I disagree with you here that it is "all about coaching." I have pointed this out before, but I think that the right school matters a good bit more than the right coach. Here is just some data for some of the top/relevant coaches at difference schools:

Bobby Bowden - W. Va. 62%. FSU - 75%
Spurrier - Duke 59%, Florida 81%, SC 66%
Les Miles - Ok St, 57%, LSU 80%
Saban - Mich. St., 58%, LSU 75%, Bama 83%
Mack Brown - UNC 59%, Texas 77 %
Bill Curry - Tech 42%, Bama 72%, UK 33%, Ga St. 30%
Paul Johnson - GSU 86%, Navy 61%, Tech 60%

As can be seen, the same exact coaches have widely varying success depending on the school (and predictably so based on the school). While coaches matters, I think the school seems to matter a lot more.

This is correct. On TOS, I posted a study where statistics corroborated this anecdotal sample.

 

[Squints]

Fair assessment. Like I said, it would be just speculation as to why there is a disconnect. He could be correct, but I can't say for sure if it's arrogance toward HS coaches. My guess would be a little laziness and neglecting HS coaches. Again that is just a guess.

On a related note...Coaching clinics are a big deal to HS coaches. Back when I was still coaching, I went to Auburn (Tuberville), Georgia (Richt), and GT (Gailey). I was pumped to go to Tech's, but honestly it was a letdown. The difference was that Gailey didn't have a clue as to how to relate to HS coaches. It was good, but nowhere near what the other two were in terms of hospitality and atmosphere. Well, there was a Buzz when CPJ was hired at Tech, and it looked like HS relations would take a turn for the better. For a short time it did, but has slipped way back down to where it was when Gailey was running the show.

Hmmm. Well that is interesting. I do wonder why that would be the case. Do you think the apparent plateauing/stagnating of our win totals played a role?

 

[TheTaxJacket]

May as well just say that Georgia Tech is bad for the ACC rather than Paul Johnson. Particularly if you are going to base that on recruiting. GT limits the ability to recruit because of academics/hill. One in the same.

Custis should be the perfect example. Academic casualty. Not Paul Johnsons fault. Even when we get elite guys, can't frickin keep them.

 

[nodawgs]

Hmmm. Well that is interesting. I do wonder why that would be the case. Do you think the apparent plateauing/stagnating of our win totals played a role?

Don't think wins had anything to do with it. Not really sure.

 

[GTNavyNuke]

To answer the question, "Is Paul Johnson Bad For the ACC?"

No.

At the ACC baseball CG, there were UNC fans there who admired CPJ's O. They said they wished they could do the same. They were frustrated with their team's inability to impose their will on the opponent.

Remember we don't recruit nearly as well as UNC.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

But you can't change the school and you can change the coach.

lol.