Is it Possible

[Skeptic]

Seems like most of the one score games came down to turnovers. Did we win the turnover margin in any game this year? As takethepoints said, we played a lot of games on wet or rainy fields with inexperienced players.

Maybe inexperienced players nailed it; I don't know. But to flip the field from a big TO advantage in 2014 to a big TO disadvantage the very next season points to something like that. Or, perhaps, something that Johnson hinted at right after the loss, some of those fumbling aren't going to be back there next season. So maybe it is experience and ability, which might be close to the nub of it. You know, sometimes that "running before he caught it" really gets down to the receiver feared getting lit up. Don't mean to dismiss that at all, because that hurts. They just have to get over it if they want to play D1 football because the other side is not getting any smaller.

 

[Skeptic]

That is probably fair, and where some of the current disagreement among Tech fans is coming from. I have been on record many times saying that I actually agree with Dave Braine that, while Georgia Tech is very capable of having great seasons (even competing for the NC in a given season), Tech will likely never "consistently average 9-10 wins a year." However, while I agree with the statement, I also think it was a horribly stupid thing for an athletic director to say publicly!

I agree that 8 years is a solid basis to judge CPJ. And, if you told me that we would play in 3 ACC championship games, 2 Orange Bowls, 2 eleven win seasons, and have a winning record in the ACC 6 of the 8 years (with a 500 record in one of the other two) I would take that. I would have liked to win at least 3 of the 8 against UGA, but it is not like most of the games weren't close or that CPJ couldn't win 3 of the next 8. I am as disappointed as everyone else with this season, but I also understand many of the reasons it happened. I am actually quite optimistic about the future and think that Johnson can get us back to 3 ACC championship games and 2 Orange Bowls over the next 8 years. Given the highs we have had over the last 8 years, I am okay accepting one truly stinker season, even if I don't like it. That is why I am still on board.

You also have to remember that, if we had a coach averaging 8-9 every year (with some 11 win seasons), there is probably a 75%+ chance that coach moves on from Tech pretty quickly. CPJ is here to stay. The last two coaches with his kind of successes at Tech both bailed quickly for better jobs at other schools and the NFL. What I don't want is some short success, the coach leaves, and then we go through Gailey-like mediocrity with the next coach, or worse. I love Tech with the best of fans, but lets be honest, it is not an ideal place to coach. It will never pay the best, has tons of recruiting disadvantages, and is a huge minority fan population within its own state.

This. Thanks for pointing out to his critics -- and lord knows I agree he deserves some criticism for 2015 -- that he won championships here, as in multiple. Critics seem to want pristine titles, as in undefeated. Arggh.

 

[Skeptic]

You first have to judge coaches by their long-term track record. It would be hard to find a head coach with a resume better than CPJ on that basis. Sure, there will be some younger coaches that have had a few years of success at a non-P5 level, or an assistant somewhere that looks like a genius, but you have to give credit to a head coach with decades of executive coaching experience and a long history of success. There might be some valid reasons for criticism of the coaching this year, but against the background of CPJ's history, I think you have to conclude that factors other than the head coach made us a 3-9 team this year.

Yes, and remember that coach-whose-name-can't-be-spoken here had a sparkling short-term record at ECU. Well, more probably it was the OC but too late now, because we know how that worked out.

 

[reubenjet]

You're entitled to your own beliefs, but not your own facts. Stanford, since 2007 (the year Harbaugh was hired), is 28-19 in one score games, boosted by a preposterous 8-2 in 2012. This year they're 2-1 in one score games (and won one because Wazzu shanked a short FG). Last year they were 1-4. What changed? It's probably worth mentioning that there was luck in the Notre Dame game. The Notre Dame QB didn't get into the end zone on their last possession, but the play stood. If they overturned it, and Notre Dame scored on the next play (which is reasonable given they would have been inside the 1) Stanford would not have had enough time to score themselves. They did what they had to do, but they were lucky to have even had the opportunity.

Alabama is the gold standard in the sport. Saban arrived in 2007. Their record in one score games since then? 17-14.

Boy, Alabama sure is LUCKY!!!!

 

[reubenjet]

I still believe the major difference in 2014 and 2015 was that the '14 team always believed it could, and should, win, regardless of circumstances. The '15 acted sometimes -- Georgia for instance -- like it didn't even deserve to be out there. Give the '15 team the heart of '14 and we would have seen 7-8 wins. Sloppy and ugly. But wins.

I can go along with this.

 

[reubenjet]

I'm tired of losing.

Maybe next year we will be luckier

 

[JorgeJonas]

Boy, Alabama sure is LUCKY!!!!

You missed the point. Alabama's success is remarkable specifically because they haven't been very lucky.

 

[okiemon]

Is it possible for a team to finish with a record like ours, with the HC being perceived as having done a good job? What say you all?

Nope.

 

[okiemon]

But to flip the field from a big TO advantage in 2014 to a big TO disadvantage the very next season points to something like that. Or, perhaps, something that Johnson hinted at right after the loss, some of those fumbling aren't going to be back there next season. So maybe it is experience and ability, which might be close to the nub of it. You know, sometimes that "running before he caught it" really gets down to the receiver feared getting lit up. Don't mean to dismiss that at all, because that hurts. They just have to get over it if they want to play D1 football because the other side is not getting any smaller.

I agree with you in general, but let's not forget we had a lot of unbelievable breaks in 2014 as far as the TO margin went. We can't expect Pitt, or anyone else, to fumble 4 times in the first 6 plays like they did last year.

 

[Skeptic]

I agree with you in general, but let's not forget we had a lot of unbelievable breaks in 2014 as far as the TO margin went. We can't expect Pitt, or anyone else, to fumble 4 times in the first 6 plays like they did last year.

I have to concede that was a memorable afternoon, and our team even being a beneficiary, it didn't look good. Astonishing, maybe.

 

[sidewalkGTfan]

I agree with you in general, but let's not forget we had a lot of unbelievable breaks in 2014 as far as the TO margin went. We can't expect Pitt, or anyone else, to fumble 4 times in the first 6 plays like they did last year.

Most teams that win 11 games in a season were on the good end of breaks during the season. Every team in the top 10 right now is there for a lot of reasons, like talent, coaching, etc., but one of the reasons is also random luck going their way.

 

[Skeptic]

Most teams that win 11 games in a season were on the good end of breaks during the season. Every team in the top 10 right now is there for a lot of reasons, like talent, coaching, etc., but one of the reasons is also random luck going their way.

I don't mean to speak for oklemon, and I may be wrong, but I think his point was that four fumbles literally before the first commercial is, how to say, not in the script.

 

[JorgeJonas]

I don't mean to speak for oklemon, and I may be wrong, but I think his point was that four fumbles literally before the first commercial is, how to say, not in the script.

Dude, that was actually exactly the script! It's just so rare for things to go that according to plan.

 

[Skeptic]

Dude, that was actually exactly the script! It's just so rare for things to go that according to plan.

I know I joke when I see it. Throw that script up on the teleprompter.

 

[jayparr]

PJ is a good coach. What I think he failed at this year is not having enough upperclassmen ready to play. We had too many holes in the classes at important positions. Injuries certainly played a part in it but usually you see improvement throughout the year. I didn't see any this year. Team got worse as the year went on.

Check out the 13 class, and see who was on the field!

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

That is probably fair, and where some of the current disagreement among Tech fans is coming from. I have been on record many times saying that I actually agree with Dave Braine that, while Georgia Tech is very capable of having great seasons (even competing for the NC in a given season), Tech will likely never "consistently average 9-10 wins a year." However, while I agree with the statement, I also think it was a horribly stupid thing for an athletic director to say publicly!

I agree that 8 years is a solid basis to judge CPJ. And, if you told me that we would play in 3 ACC championship games, 2 Orange Bowls, 2 eleven win seasons, and have a winning record in the ACC 6 of the 8 years (with a 500 record in one of the other two) I would take that. I would have liked to win at least 3 of the 8 against UGA, but it is not like most of the games weren't close or that CPJ couldn't win 3 of the next 8. I am as disappointed as everyone else with this season, but I also understand many of the reasons it happened. I am actually quite optimistic about the future and think that Johnson can get us back to 3 ACC championship games and 2 Orange Bowls over the next 8 years. Given the highs we have had over the last 8 years, I am okay accepting one truly stinker season, even if I don't like it. That is why I am still on board.

You also have to remember that, if we had a coach averaging 8-9 every year (with some 11 win seasons), there is probably a 75%+ chance that coach moves on from Tech pretty quickly. CPJ is here to stay. The last two coaches with his kind of successes at Tech both bailed quickly for better jobs at other schools and the NFL. What I don't want is some short success, the coach leaves, and then we go through Gailey-like mediocrity with the next coach, or worse. I love Tech with the best of fans, but lets be honest, it is not an ideal place to coach. It will never pay the best, has tons of recruiting disadvantages, and is a huge minority fan population within its own state.

Very well put. I agree with you 100%.

 

[stingyoa$$]

Check out the 13 class, and see who was on the field!

I count 8 on the roster with 7 contributing. Marvin really hasn't played much for whatever reason. This is exactly what I'm talking about. It's hard to overcome those kinds of numbers.

 

[okiemon]

I don't mean to speak for oklemon, and I may be wrong, but I think his point was that four fumbles literally before the first commercial is, how to say, not in the script.

Thanks. That was indeed my point. Another way to say that our D last year wasn't THAT much better than this year's, but we had a ton more lucky breaks.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

I count 8 on the roster with 7 contributing. Marvin really hasn't played much for whatever reason. This is exactly what I'm talking about. It's hard to overcome those kinds of numbers.

We don't oversign and push kids out the door like Bama. Small classes are a reality for schools with integrity. Big classes like last year are an anomaly at GT.

 

[reubenjet]

You missed the point. Alabama's success is remarkable specifically because they haven't been very lucky.

So if given the choice between being Lucky or Good which would you take? You can't be both it seems!!