Intelligent and well-reasoned response, and once again I appreciate the tenor of this dialogue. I think I agree with about 90% of what you said, but we still have some important differences to chat about....
We have now begun discussing a couple of inter-related topics....so-called 'white privilege" and reparations.
With regards to the historical rape of indigenous peoples (not just blacks), I concur with your reading of the history and its brutality. Have you ever seen a movie called The Mission? It was a commercial flop and it is a terribly sad movie, but it is also a very moving rendition of how Europeans, with their politics and greed, treated indigenous peoples with brutality and slavery. (The music from it is also haunting and beautiful!). It is sad because of the beauty that is destroyed at the end. Whilst not being precisely accurate historically, it is a romanticized version of what happened in South America to the locals when Europeans pressed their values onto everyone else...and those values did indeed rate locals very poorly. Your recounting of the indignities imposed on black slaves reminded me of that sad tale....
Examples of this abound in history. When Europeans first encountered the Japanese, the Japanese were repulsed by the Europeans because they refused to bathe. In those days, many less educated Europeans believed bathing led to the catching of diseases and they actively resisted bathing. In other words, they literally stank. And when the Japanese offered to let them use their baths, they refused and resisted with violence. No wonder the Japanese words for foreigner and barbarian are the same.....
Unfortunately, our world revolves around power...and no matter how cultured a civilization, when it encountered a more powerful society, it was inevitably overcome and (most often) destroyed. While the idea of the "noble savage" is often romanticized too much (especially about American Indians), there is little doubt that the fate of different societies depends most often on power, not culture, with the least powerful being destroyed time and time again.
The only difference on our arguments is that you are laying this on the white race...whilst I am laying it on all of humanity. Again, technically you are correct in that the white race was the one guilty of these excesses towards black slaves....but as I argued above, that is mere coincidence, it is not a function of being white. Humanity is brutal and has historically been extremely tribal. And, in this day and age when racial divisions seem to be being provoked deliberately by political parties (we can argue later about which party is more guilty of this) in order for politicians to gain political power, use of the term white privilege is a taunt that is unnecessary and counter-productive, I would argue.
You mention this as a particularly American phenomenon. I am not sure why you make that argument and would love to hear your support for it. In my travels and studies of history, I believe I have seen identical behavior by every race and culture. (NB- I may be misunderstanding what you mean by American phenomenon...the original acts, or the defense of those acts...). This may be the crux of the difference in our views.
I am particularly worried about the influence of media and politics on our society, and the use of that media to flame tribalism amongst our society. (Note, I use that term "tribalism" to capture the types of things I think you are calling "white privilege"). I think it is extremely counter-productive to what I see as the American dream of a truly diverse and rich society born of taking the best of the various cultures who come here. I am wholly in favor of continuing to look for places and ways to eliminate tribalism in our culture, wherever it is found. Sometimes, this might be uncomfortable to blacks. (An example might be that some rap music is "hate speech" just as much as any white nationalist video on youtube is, and as such if one is going to ban one, you should ban them both...)
With regard to reparations, I see two huge problems with this approach. First and foremost is the idea that we should never, ever visit the sins of the father onto the son. If a person commits a crime, the idea our society has held dear is you punish that criminal, but you should not hold their family (and especially their children) liable for that crime. How do you put a price tag on murder? If you could, would you then require the family of a murderer to go into debt to pay off that debt? In some sense, that is exactly what you are arguing when you argue for reparations. I just cannot see myself ever coming to grips with that concept.
Secondly, it seems to me a basis for your argument is what is "fair". It is unfair to have used slaves and therefore we should repay them for their labor....that is what I think I am hearing from you. Well, the problem with that concept is that 'fairness' is an individually held concept. While I think most folks would agree that slavery is unfair....some would also argue the wages paid to laborers in the steel mills and auto factories 100 years ago were unfair. Heck, people argue about fair ages today. By today's standards, slavery is a horrible human activity. By the standards of 2,000 years ago, it was the norm. By the standards of 300 years ago, it was changing but was still in use in many places in the world. So, my problem with reparations remains what I described before....how is it that you decide that American blacks should get reparations, but other ethnic groups around the world should not? How far back in time do you want to go? I simply do not see any way to 'fairly' make these determinations, and if you limit is to American blacks then it goes back to a divisive racial argument at a time when I think we should be remmebering what MLK said and trying to find bridges and commonlaity betwene races and cultures.
I look forward to your thought-provoking reply....for this thread does make me think (and that's a good thing)
