I want Big Ten, Deion and Jumpman

[RonJohn]

Are there any 'outs' in the ACC GOR contract? Any opportunity for a school to claim material breach?

Read for yourself:

https://wwwcache.wralsportsfan.com/asset/colleges/ncsu/2022/07/05/20361238/ACC-Grant-of-Rights-1-DMID1-5vgd1w2if.pdf

Note that this is the previous one, from 2013. I haven't seen a copy of the current one, but I have read reports that it is almost identical.

 

[travgt01]

I don’t buy the FSU/Clemson to the SEC thing. They may want to jump, but if they think they can compete year to year in that league, they got another think coming. Dabbo leaves and Clemson becomes another SC. FSU will hardly be relevant. And I don’t see Georgia, SC, or Florida agreeing to it.
But I do want Prime Time.

Here's how it's going to work out.

• 6 team B10 South Division. Might not be a "division" but they will all play each other. Probably be in a mega-division with the current B10 East.
  • UVA, UNC, GT, Clemson, FSU, Miami
• VT and NCSU to the SEC
• Pitt and Louisville to the Big 12
• Duke, BC, Wake, Cuse, ND will join Big East for olympic sports. They will have a modified "ACC" for football or maybe the Big East revives football. Maybe not even a league, just a partnership/scheduling agreement with each other. UConn probably will get in on that too.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Are there any 'outs' in the ACC GOR contract? Any opportunity for a school to claim material breach?

No.

 

[stinger 1957]

The biggest problem with leaving the ACC for any conference is that GT does not have any television rights to bring to the table, as has been discussed before. Every ACC school gave the broadcast rights to the ACC until the mid 2030s. If Ohio State plays GT in Atlanta, the ACC would get the money from that television broadcast.

The Big10 does have a research and academic arrangement among their members. It would be a good fit for GT academically and with respect to research. As I said, the biggest issue is that GT signed away all of their rights to broadcast revenue until the mid 2030s. The Big10 might be able to make more money from TV subscription rates, but would not get to broadcast any games controlled by GT. Unless someone is able to wriggle a way out of the GOR, or the ACC completely implodes, it won't happen for at least 13 years.

I understand about the GOR etc, I have for sometime felt the ACC will self implode itself when they see how far behind in $ they are which i suspect they already see. IMO the media behind the scenes will work all this out and is why I put in my posting the media is driving the ship in all the conference realignment, because I have heard people close to what is actually going on say so.

 

[RonJohn]

I understand about the GOR etc, I have for sometime felt the ACC will self implode itself when they see how far behind in $ they are which i suspect they already see. IMO the media behind the scenes will work all this out and is why I put in my posting the media is driving the ship in all the conference realignment, because I have heard people close to what is actually going on say so.

There is a difference between media driving decisions to put Texas and Oklahoma in the SEC and USC UCLA into the Big10 VS. trying to get the ACC to voluntarily dissolve. The Big12 and Pac12 teams are leaving after their conference contracts and GOR contracts expire. Texas has so much more money than any team in the ACC that they would have been the ideal candidate to challenge the GOR, but they didn't.

 

[85Escape]

Read for yourself:

https://wwwcache.wralsportsfan.com/asset/colleges/ncsu/2022/07/05/20361238/ACC-Grant-of-Rights-1-DMID1-5vgd1w2if.pdf

Note that this is the previous one, from 2013. I haven't seen a copy of the current one, but I have read reports that it is almost identical.

Looks pretty tight. I'm not an attorney, so this is probably a stupid idea...but could a State of Georgia somehow legislate something that requires GT to effectively be released from the GOR without penalty? Or, perhaps, a law passed that institutes a fee and/or tax on revenue generated on State Owned land that doesn't flow to member institutions current affiliations? It just seems like contracts are written to be worked around, and it's always a fun exercise to think through all the angles we could play to have some freedom of action.

 

[RonJohn]

Looks pretty tight. I'm not an attorney, so this is probably a stupid idea...but could a State of Georgia somehow legislate something that requires GT to effectively be released from the GOR without penalty? Or, perhaps, a law passed that institutes a fee and/or tax on revenue generated on State Owned land that doesn't flow to member institutions current affiliations? It just seems like contracts are written to be worked around, and it's always a fun exercise to think through all the angles we could play to have some freedom of action.

Might could try, but the ACC would probably take the issue to federal court since it isn't a contract that is contained within the state boundaries of Georgia. Also, before you could even get to that point you would have to ask if the Georgia state legislature would pass a law with the intention of getting the Big10 a foothold in the state. Could you convince all of the leg humpers in the state house and senate to vote to allow Ohio State and Michigan better access to recruit against the mutts?

 

[85Escape]

Might could try, but the ACC would probably take the issue to federal court since it isn't a contract that is contained within the state boundaries of Georgia. Also, before you could even get to that point you would have to ask if the Georgia state legislature would pass a law with the intention of getting the Big10 a foothold in the state. Could you convince all of the leg humpers in the state house and senate to vote to allow Ohio State and Michigan better access to recruit against the mutts?

Oh, I'm 100% sure the state wouldn't help us...I was just dreaming Back to reality...

 

[RamblinRed]

I really don't see conferences going to like 24 teams and I also don't see the ACC imploding.
I don't see how the financials work for a 24 team type conference. B10 could have had any teams they wanted from the PAC and B12 due to their expiring contracts. They only took 2. OR and WA basically begged them to take them and they said no - and that was with no money issues to have to resolve. They are getting close to the point where adding more schools is dilutional towards the TV money.

ESPN actually has a strong reason to keep the ACC together. It gets more programming for both college football and college basketball from the ACC than any other conference. Do you think they want to have that dissolved and potentially negatively impact their content stream?

GT will never end up in the SEC. SEC would have zero interest in GT - it doesn't bring anything to the table that they care about. Also, the academic side of the school would never agree to being put in the same conference with those schools, and whether you like it or not, the academic side brings in exponentially more money to the school than the athletic side does and therefore has a much more important voice.

Finally, while someone may eventually try to break the GOR, the idea that it will be easy to do is an internet fallacy. No one has tried to break a GOR yet. Also, if the ACC's GOR is written like the B12's (which is pretty likely) then a school that wanted to depart actually would have no say in the dissolution of a conference. That GOR specifies interested vs non-interested parties and if a school attempts to leave they are automatically categorized as a non-interested party and lose their vote on any conference matters.

I think there will eventually be more movement, but probably not for a few years (which is probably to GT's advantage). B10's new media contracts expire at the end of the decade so that seems like a pretty good timeframe to keep in mind. Also, if the new CFP process includes auto bids for conferences that actually makes it potentially less likely for a school to leave as they would be leaving from a conference where it may be easier to make the CFP to go to the conference where it would be harder. Would you rather have more money, or an easier path?

 

[85Escape]

That GOR specifies interested vs non-interested parties and if a school attempts to leave they are automatically categorized as a non-interested party and lose their vote on any conference matters.

I missed that point as I skimmed it. Wow. I need to steal that for use in our partnership agreement. "If you attempt to sell your partnership units to a third-party, your units are automatically moved from voting units to non-voting units." I like it.

 

[Vespidae]

The collective ACC schools own our TV rights, not ESPN. ESPN could dissolve the contract with the ACC and the other schools would still own our rights until 2035. You'd have to convince them that we should get our TV rights back so we could ditch them and move to greener pastures...

ESPN can make it financially attractive for everyone to dissolve it.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

ESPN can make it financially attractive for everyone to dissolve it.

No. They can't.

First, they would have to ensure that all the leaving teams landed in the $EC, since they control that contract, and not the B1G, where E$PN would lose inventory if they joined. Then that would give more leverage to the $EC to renegotiate the TV rights with E$PN for more $$. They would have to pay the existing value of the remaining contract to the 11-12 teams not picked up by the $EC plus the additional revenue to the now expanded $EC. Then, they'd almost assuredly have to have some kind of guaranteed TV deal for the remaining teams else they would never agree to it. E$PN doesn't print that kind of money. As @RamblinRed said above, I just don't see it.

 

[stinger 1957]

There is a difference between media driving decisions to put Texas and Oklahoma in the SEC and USC UCLA into the Big10 VS. trying to get the ACC to voluntarily dissolve. The Big12 and Pac12 teams are leaving after their conference contracts and GOR contracts expire. Texas has so much more money than any team in the ACC that they would have been the ideal candidate to challenge the GOR, but they didn't.

Certainly I don't know about it myself other than I've heard that if 8 schools want out they could do so, if the media behind the scenes is setting it up so certain schools end up in the BIG, certain in the SEC, certain in the Big 12, and they all are getting more TV revenue I could easily see it happening. I'm not saying that is exactly what is happening, but I am saying too many people that appear to be knowledgeable have indicated the media and others are very busy behind the scenes working on major realignment in the multiple conferences. What does major mean exactly, I have no idea.

 

[RonJohn]

Certainly I don't know about it myself other than I've heard that if 8 schools want out they could do so, if the media behind the scenes is setting it up so certain schools end up in the BIG, certain in the SEC, certain in the Big 12, and they all are getting more TV revenue I could easily see it happening. I'm not saying that is exactly what is happening, but I am saying too many people that appear to be knowledgeable have indicated the media and others are very busy behind the scenes working on major realignment in the multiple conferences. What does major mean exactly, I have no idea.

The only copy that I have seen available is the previous ACC GOR, but I have read that the current one is almost identical. The ONLY way to modify or do away with the GOR according to that is "This Agreement may not be modified or amended other than by an agreement in writing signed by duly authorized representatives of the Conference and each of the Member Institutions that are then members of the Conference." It doesn't say a majority, and it doesn't say 8. It says each. If eight teams leave the ACC and eight G5 teams are brought in to the ACC, then it would require each of the current members voting to let the eight that left get their GOR back. That isn't happening.

There are all kinds of things being "said" on the internet about how easy it is to get out of the GOR. There was a person on this forum saying it is just a contract and a school could just violate it. However, it isn't just a contract. If you move the title of your house from your name to your HOA's name and decide to move, you can't sell your house because you don't have title to it anymore. GT does not own the broadcast rights for GT sports and cannot sell it to anyone. An ACC school could leave the conference and pay the conference buyout, but they would not own media rights and could not sell them. As I said before, Texas athletics consistently has tens of millions more in revenue than expenditures. If any school was in a good position to fight the GORs, it would be them. They decided not to. That should tell you something.

 

[85Escape]

Another stupid speculation/question...it's my specialty

Could there be a case for two teams to 'swap' conferences.

Let's say Rutgers decided it wanted to be part of the ACC. And let's say GT wanted into the Big 10. Is there any scenario where that could be done?

Both conferences could expand their media coverage and perhaps get better match-ups for their conference. I know it's not likely to happen...but it's an interesting thought. Could we find a school in the Big 10 where both conferences would see it as an even or better swap and it makes sense for both schools.

Yeah, I know no one is leaving the B10 money for the ACC...but maybe with a swap the ACC could get more from ESPN?

 

[stinger 1957]

The only copy that I have seen available is the previous ACC GOR, but I have read that the current one is almost identical. The ONLY way to modify or do away with the GOR according to that is "This Agreement may not be modified or amended other than by an agreement in writing signed by duly authorized representatives of the Conference and each of the Member Institutions that are then members of the Conference." It doesn't say a majority, and it doesn't say 8. It says each. If eight teams leave the ACC and eight G5 teams are brought in to the ACC, then it would require each of the current members voting to let the eight that left get their GOR back. That isn't happening.

There are all kinds of things being "said" on the internet about how easy it is to get out of the GOR. There was a person on this forum saying it is just a contract and a school could just violate it. However, it isn't just a contract. If you move the title of your house from your name to your HOA's name and decide to move, you can't sell your house because you don't have title to it anymore. GT does not own the broadcast rights for GT sports and cannot sell it to anyone. An ACC school could leave the conference and pay the conference buyout, but they would not own media rights and could not sell them. As I said before, Texas athletics consistently has tens of millions more in revenue than expenditures. If any school was in a good position to fight the GORs, it would be them. They decided not to. That should tell you something.

I thought a majority could vote to end the conference and if you had a majority wanting out for better TV money-------
Bottom line I believe a majority will not stand for what is going to happen with them being forced to stay in a financial disadvantaged position but whatever you think is fine, I really don't want to argue with you about it because I'm just putting together what I have seen over recent times from people who seem to be connected to it all in different ways. As I have said I believe, I'm not reporting the gospel. We will know a lot more of how it's going to play out over the next few years because it is supposedly on going according to some who seem to be close to it. When there is a will with the majority there is a way.

 

[RonJohn]

I thought a majority could vote to end the conference and if you had a majority wanting out for better TV money-------
Bottom line I believe a majority will not stand for what is going to happen with them being forced to stay in a financial disadvantaged position but whatever you think is fine, I really don't want to argue with you about it because I'm just putting together what I have seen over recent times from people who seem to be connected to it all in different ways. As I have said I believe, I'm not reporting the gospel. We will know a lot more of how it's going to play out over the next few years because it is supposedly on going according to some who seem to be close to it. When there is a will with the majority there is a way.

I believe that the ACC is trying to get more money in some fashion. Not sure that they will be successful. The new Big10 contract expires at the same time as the EXTREMELY long ACC contract. The new SEC contract ends at about the same time. I think there is a very good chance of shuffling at that time, whether other things happen between now and then or not.

On the conspiracy side, it appeared to me that Cabrera flinched and made some involuntary facial expressions when a reporter asked about - changes to the conference landscape when the Big10 picked up additional teams. Maybe Cabrera is actually thinking about something.

 

[Dress2Jacket]

Lots of comments on this thread. In no particular order,

• Deion Sanders.
• Adidas and getting a good deal.
• Joining the Big10.

What are "Two things I'm against and one that's inconsequential", Alex.

 

[Buzztheirazz]

Maybe. ESPN is in decline at the moment. There have been talks (only outsiders as far as we know) about Disney splitting off ESPN as a separate company. ESPN has been downsizing and getting rid of expensive talent. I don't know that their perceived power in sports is actually true now.

Also, there is no way that they would do something to open up the South to the Big10. ESPN walked away from the Big10 broadcast rights because they either couldn't afford it or thought they couldn't get a profit at that price. Going forward, I think that ESPN will do everything they can to make everyone except for the Big10 attractive. There is no commercial reason for them to prop up the Big10. My impression is that they don't do sports objectively. They try to push for whatever makes ESPN the most money, whether it is truthful or not. Giving the Big10 access to Atlanta, Florida, or North Carolina does not help ESPN.

It’s not just ESPN. Fox is going hard on the Big Noon game and

Tech failed financially by leaving SEC, not accepting initial offer from Big 10 and the ACC is already dwindling in yearly pay outs.

 

[CEB]

It’s not just ESPN. Fox is going hard on the Big Noon game and

Tech failed financially by leaving SEC, not accepting initial offer from Big 10 and the ACC is already dwindling in yearly pay outs.

Really? I had not seen ACC payouts decreasing. Is that true?