Hypothetical ?. If MJ is starter and Jay Jones

[Philhutch80]

I think a lot of people thought Lucas was gonna be nipping at MJs heels for the starting job but after all of the comments CPJ has said about Jay and watching the spring game it seems Lucas is our #4 guy right now. That could very well change at any point, I'm a fan of having a really good passer in this offense and last year passing the ball effectively is what made us successful. If Jay has a hard time hitting passes his stock could fall quickly and Lucas would be right there waiting for the opportunity.

I don't think fans got to see the "real" LJ yet. Dude was running for his life half of the time he was in there. He had 2nd string and 3rd string OLs protecting him. That's why CPJ wanted Jay Jones to play with the 1's...he wanted to give Jay playing time to see him in action, but he didn't want to make an existing injury worse by running for his life after every snap.

CPJ knows what he has. He's been doing this for over 30 years. He's going to play the guy that gives this TEAM the best chance to win.

When we played Clemson in '14 and Dashon got injured it was probably a good thing. You could see in the plays prior to that that he was super talented and that alone could have changed our fate in that game. Personally the closest thing we have in stature and arm to him is LJ at this point. I saw glimpses in the SG, aside from the obvious 70yd TD run, where he could be our own version of what Dashon represented for Clemson. JeT was an exceptional passer with great quickness on his feet and with reads. I have no doubt that LJ can do the same and I honestly pull the most for him as he has a higher ceiling than the other QB's from what I have seen. JJ is a tremendous athlete no doubt and has an 'it' factor but he runs like Mike Vick did; ball way out away from his body, and he is nowhere as big as Vick. TM was boring in the SG which is both good and bad. Good because he could run the offense the way CPJ wants it, but bad because he could not really create things out of thin air the way Jet has the past several years.
Personally I am fine with MJ as a starter but eventually want to see LJ take the reigns.

 

[stech81]

I think MJ has a very good chance of being the 2017 version of George Godsey.

I do believe that MJ may be a little faster.

 

[Techster]

TBH...fans probably aggregate more information

When we played Clemson in '14 and Dashon got injured it was probably a good thing. You could see in the plays prior to that that he was super talented and that alone could have changed our fate in that game. Personally the closest thing we have in stature and arm to him is LJ at this point. I saw glimpses in the SG, aside from the obvious 70yd TD run, where he could be our own version of what Dashon represented for Clemson. JeT was an exceptional passer with great quickness on his feet and with reads. I have no doubt that LJ can do the same and I honestly pull the most for him as he has a higher ceiling than the other QB's from what I have seen. JJ is a tremendous athlete no doubt and has an 'it' factor but he runs like Mike Vick did; ball way out away from his body, and he is nowhere as big as Vick. TM was boring in the SG which is both good and bad. Good because he could run the offense the way CPJ wants it, but bad because he could not really create things out of thin air the way Jet has the past several years.
Personally I am fine with MJ as a starter but eventually want to see LJ take the reigns.

Both Jay and Lucas have some skillsets that make you salivate as a fan.

Jay:
Great speed and quickness. Has a great feel for pressure coming from his blindspot that all special talents have. Similar to Jet, has the ability to make something out of nothing. At 6'1, has the frame to put on some weight to be a great inside runner (midline, QB follows) and the quickness to be lethal on the perimeter for speed options and triple option. He'll be the type of QB that may lose 1-3 yards on a play, then follow it up with a 30+ yard run. His running game is obviously further along than his passing game, but if he can be just an average passer, he will be a devastating QB in our offense.

Lucas:
Probably one of the best passers out of HS that CPJ has recruited. Has great touch and anticipation on his throws. Understands passing windows, and can make all the throws in our offense. BIG QB at 6'3, and will eventually get to the 220-225lb range. Not the shifty and quick runner that Jay Jones is, but is probably built to handle the inside runs better. His running is very underated by fans, and exhibits home run ability. Probably the best DUAL threat QB in the stable. Reminds me a lot of Dak Prescott...big guy who's going to be hard to bring down, and good passing ability. He's going to be a steady runner who will keep the chains moving, but won't have the big play ability that Jay Jones has unless everyone does their job. Jay can probably masks a lot of the downfield blocking mistakes that his teammates make because he has the ability to out run those mistakes. But don't think Lucas can't break one, because that 70 yard scamper showed just that...he just won't be zig zagging his way around defenders like Jay can. Lucas is more of a North-South Nesbitt type runner.

Honestly, LOTS of upside for both players. As fans, we should all probably get a bucket of popcorn and nice cold drink and just enjoy the show.

 

[Philhutch80]

I'm cool with a hybrid between Dak & Dashon. Both are next level talent and who is to say that both of these guys at some point could not be. Polar opposites as far as skill sets go but ultimately both nightmares for the unprepared defenses.

 

[GTech63]

When we played Clemson in '14 and Dashon got injured it was probably a good thing. You could see in the plays prior to that that he was super talented and that alone could have changed our fate in that game. Personally the closest thing we have in stature and arm to him is LJ at this point. I saw glimpses in the SG, aside from the obvious 70yd TD run, where he could be our own version of what Dashon represented for Clemson. JeT was an exceptional passer with great quickness on his feet and with reads. I have no doubt that LJ can do the same and I honestly pull the most for him as he has a higher ceiling than the other QB's from what I have seen. JJ is a tremendous athlete no doubt and has an 'it' factor but he runs like Mike Vick did; ball way out away from his body, and he is nowhere as big as Vick. TM was boring in the SG which is both good and bad. Good because he could run the offense the way CPJ wants it, but bad because he could not really create things out of thin air the way Jet has the past several years.
Personally I am fine with MJ as a starter but eventually want to see LJ take the reigns.

I am with you about LJ. JeT was best passer in CPJ era but I would not say he was exceptional. He could certainly find a way to win and made many exceptional plays to get there. If we can get a QB that makes reads like Tevin, speed and elusiveness of Jet, Power and toughness of Nesbitt, and is an accurate consistent passer, this O could be unstoppable. Give us ST of last year plus a couple of TO per game we should be in the hunt for a Natty.

 

[redmule]

Dammit, life was so much simpler when we had no depth. By this time of year, we all knew the 2 deep by heart, and could begin focusing on the incoming freshmen. Now, at my rapidly advancing age, I have to learn the three and four deep at some positions.

Put me in the LJ camp as the future QB. What I saw at the Spring Game is exactly what CPJ said. He didn't get rattled. He looks like a game manager, a solid runner with a very good arm. I want an assassin at QB that leaves the fireworks to those around him. They had different styles of play, but when I look at LJ, I remember Shawn Jones.

 

[Milwaukee]

I fear LJ is Vad 2.0. A solid runner with great throwing ability.

 

[vamosjackets]

I fear LJ is Vad 2.0. A solid runner with great throwing ability.

Put a different brain in Vad and the end result could've been totally different. But, yes, LJ reminds me of Vad also, but with a different brain.

 

[alentrekin]

I fear LJ is Vad 2.0. A solid runner with great throwing ability.

If Vad had run the CPJ offense, he/we would have been fine. The Oline is recruited for drive blocking and movement into the second level, not whatever that O was.

We lost some of our competitive advantage by throwing away the triple game. Vad would have needed to be more than a solid runner to make up for it.

 

[Techster]

Man, Vad was a sight to behold running the ball...2012 showed that. That guy was a gifted athlete running and passing the ball. The spring in-between 2012 and 2013, I thought Vad was going to have a breakout year on the national level. Dude was making runs all over our defense and just blowing by DBs.

Unfortunately, it just didn't work out for him here. As others have mentioned, if he was mentally 100% into our offense, things may have been a lot different.

 

[PBR549]

Man, Vad was a sight to behold running the ball...2012 showed that. That guy was a gifted athlete running and passing the ball. The spring in-between 2012 and 2013, I thought Vad was going to have a breakout year on the national level. Dude was making runs all over our defense and just blowing by DBs.

Unfortunately, it just didn't work out for him here. As others have mentioned, if he was mentally 100% into our offense, things may have been a lot different.

He became gun shy in that second year. He took a big hit against UNC or Duke and never was the same.

 

[Milwaukee]

Man, Vad was a sight to behold running the ball...2012 showed that. That guy was a gifted athlete running and passing the ball. The spring in-between 2012 and 2013, I thought Vad was going to have a breakout year on the national level. Dude was making runs all over our defense and just blowing by DBs.

Unfortunately, it just didn't work out for him here. As others have mentioned, if he was mentally 100% into our offense, things may have been a lot different.

Same here. I was so high on Vad it's embarrassing, I thought he was going to be the truth.

Vamos and Trekin are probably right, he could've prospered had he bought in.

I don't know enough about Lucas yet, I'm just going off of physical attributes and similarities to Vad that I see with my naked, amateur eye.

 

[Techster]

He became gun shy in that second year. He took a big hit against UNC or Duke and never was the same.

UNC. I refer to that hit as the hit that knocked the triple option out of him.

 

[wreckrod]

UNC. I refer to that hit as the hit that knocked the triple option out of him.

LOL yeah, exactly this.

 

[redmule]

I was sitting a good ways away from that hit and it made my ribs sore for a week.

 

[TheTechGuy]

Sorry if I missed someone else posting this, but Jay and Lucas got new numbers. Someone go ahead and patent JJ4 and LJ7, just in case.

 

[tech_wreck47]

TBH...fans probably aggregate more information


Both Jay and Lucas have some skillsets that make you salivate as a fan.

Jay:
Great speed and quickness. Has a great feel for pressure coming from his blindspot that all special talents have. Similar to Jet, has the ability to make something out of nothing. At 6'1, has the frame to put on some weight to be a great inside runner (midline, QB follows) and the quickness to be lethal on the perimeter for speed options and triple option. He'll be the type of QB that may lose 1-3 yards on a play, then follow it up with a 30+ yard run. His running game is obviously further along than his passing game, but if he can be just an average passer, he will be a devastating QB in our offense.

Lucas:
Probably one of the best passers out of HS that CPJ has recruited. Has great touch and anticipation on his throws. Understands passing windows, and can make all the throws in our offense. BIG QB at 6'3, and will eventually get to the 220-225lb range. Not the shifty and quick runner that Jay Jones is, but is probably built to handle the inside runs better. His running is very underated by fans, and exhibits home run ability. Probably the best DUAL threat QB in the stable. Reminds me a lot of Dak Prescott...big guy who's going to be hard to bring down, and good passing ability. He's going to be a steady runner who will keep the chains moving, but won't have the big play ability that Jay Jones has unless everyone does their job. Jay can probably masks a lot of the downfield blocking mistakes that his teammates make because he has the ability to out run those mistakes. But don't think Lucas can't break one, because that 70 yard scamper showed just that...he just won't be zig zagging his way around defenders like Jay can. Lucas is more of a North-South Nesbitt type runner.

Honestly, LOTS of upside for both players. As fans, we should all probably get a bucket of popcorn and nice cold drink and just enjoy the show.

I agree some are probably underestimating LJ's ability to run, but I think some are doing the same about JJ's ability to pass. I wouldn't say LJ is the best dual threat just yet. Remember we have an A back that said JJ throws the best ball. It should be an interesting fall with these guys though. I think they both have the ability to throw the ball very good and run, we are in a very good place at the QB spot, especially when you add Jordan in and ,Marshall, who I wouldn't mind seeing moved back to a back.

 

[alentrekin]

AJ Gray too. AJ5 sounds good for a strike drone.

 

[Techster]

I agree some are probably underestimating LJ's ability to run, but I think some are doing the same about JJ's ability to pass. I wouldn't say LJ is the best dual threat just yet. Remember we have an A back that said JJ throws the best ball. It should be an interesting fall with these guys though. I think they both have the ability to throw the ball very good and run, we are in a very good place at the QB spot, especially when you add Jordan in and ,Marshall, who I wouldn't mind seeing moved back to a back.

Which of Jay Jones's pass from the Spring Game makes you think he's on the same level as LJ in terms of being the equivalent "dual threat"...especially as a passer?



Jay missed 3 easy passes, one of which should have been a TD to a streaking Jalen Camp. JJ didn't complete any passes further than maybe 5-7 yards beyond the LOS. Completed 2 total. I made reference to the fact he won't get to dance around behind the LOS on this level like he did in his HS highlights or else he would get sacked, and that's what happened...two of which ended in fumbles. It's also a LOT harder to just chuck the ball down field hoping your WR is going to out athlete the DBs like many of his passes in his highlight tape.

Throwing the "best ball" could mean many things. I wouldn't equate that to being a good passer. Throwing well in passing drills, or skeleton drills is nice, and does mean something. But show me a QB that will complete passes when the DLs and LBs are closing in and the secondary changes the coverage after the snap and you have to adjust your first and second receiving option based on shifting coverage. That's what a good passer does. Small sample size, but I didn't see any of that from JJ. I'd actually put JJ's passing ability behind Taquan's right now.

Speaking of Taquan, after watching that spring video, he's actually a lot better QB than we're giving him credit for. He's not as fast as JJ, but the guy can move and make people miss. He threw some WTH passes, but he also made some nice throws and completed a good number of his passes. You can see why he's QB2 right now.

Another thing I noticed: Lord help us if our first line OL gets hurt. That second team OL performance during the spring makes me nervous. LJ had almost no time back there, and the defense was consistently in the backfield on the snap. Hopefully Fall Camp will see a big leap from that group.

 

[tech_wreck47]

Which of Jay Jones's pass from the Spring Game makes you think he's on the same level as LJ in terms of being the equivalent "dual threat"...especially as a passer?



Jay missed 3 easy passes, one of which should have been a TD to a streaking Jalen Camp. JJ didn't complete any passes further than maybe 5-7 yards beyond the LOS. Completed 2 total. I made reference to the fact he won't get to dance around behind the LOS on this level like he did in his HS highlights or else he would get sacked, and that's what happened...two of which ended in fumbles. It's also a LOT harder to just chuck the ball down field hoping your WR is going to out athlete the DBs like many of his passes in his highlight tape.

Throwing the "best ball" could mean many things. I wouldn't equate that to being a good passer. Throwing well in passing drills, or skeleton drills is nice, and does mean something. But show me a QB that will complete passes when the DLs and LBs are closing in and the secondary changes the coverage after the snap and you have to adjust your first and second receiving option based on shifting coverage. That's what a good passer does. Small sample size, but I didn't see any of that from JJ. I'd actually put JJ's passing ability behind Taquan's right now.

Speaking of Taquan, after watching that spring video, he's actually a lot better QB than we're giving him credit for. He's not as fast as JJ, but the guy can move and make people miss. He threw some WTH passes, but he also made some nice throws and completed a good number of his passes. You can see why he's QB2 right now.

Another thing I noticed: Lord help us if our first line OL gets hurt. That second team OL performance during the spring makes me nervous. LJ had almost no time back there, and the defense was consistently in the backfield on the snap. Hopefully Fall Camp will see a big leap from that group.

So you base you assessment on one game where he had not practiced all week and didn't even play? You do know guys have off games right? also best ball means best ball. Go ask any teenage to young 20 year old what that means. It means , arm strength, tight spiral, accuracy etc (everything about throwing). also one of his fumbles was not from him dancing, not sure about the second. I don't think it's fair to say anything about any of the QB's that we had not seen until the spring game. JT if you remember had some games where he threw the ball pretty bad, yet we know he's a good passer, so a game like that would not have been a good indicator of the type of passer he was. You are basing your assessment off one game. I'm basing my assessment off of CPJ saying that's not normally for how he played in the spring, should we not believe what CPJ is saying? Like I said I think some aren't giving him credit for his throwing ability because of such a small sample size that means nothing really. I'm not saying he is the best passer, I'm just saying we can't say he's not a good passer from one game. I've watched enough football to understand 1 game doesn't define a player and what he is capable of. I also don't agree that TQ looked good passing in the spring game, but I do see that he ran the running plays pretty effectively.