How much rebuilding are you willing to tolerate?

year_of_the_swarm

Jolly Good Fellow
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360
A little different angle from the other coaching threads.... Because GT has run the option for 11 years, and recruiting season is essentially over for 2019 season, if a coach is brought in with a pro-style system or spread passing system, it is possible that the team is terrible next year... As in, 2 wins terrible.

However... if you brought in Monken, Ken, Lunsford, Bohannan, Debesse, etc you would presumably keep going with a pretty good team next year. Probably win at least 8 games and compete for the division.

I guess the question is... how much rebuilding are you willing to tolerate as a fan? 1 season? 4 seasons? none?
 

travgt01

Ramblin' Wreck
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547
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Buckhead
1. The coastal is as mediocre as can be. There's no dominate team so I don't see why we can't compete immediately. Chaulk up losses to clem and uga for the next few years but I certainly see no reason to assume we'll fall apart because of a system change.

Especially since transferring is so easy these days. I'm sure we can pickup some decent QBs, WRs, OL to fit our style within 1-2 years.
 

JorgeJonas

Helluva Engineer
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1,147
This is a hard question to answer in the abstract. Like, if we hired Whisenhunt, then my tolerance would be low. But if we hired Nick Saban, my tolerance would be high. Basically, it all depends on what your perception of the payoff is. If you think the coach is a homerun, then you’d be willing to accept the short term struggles. If you think the new coach is unlikely to have a significant payoff, then why would you want to accept heavy short term losing?
 

MidtownJacket

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Staff member
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4,856
Brosiahs and Sistahs I got to say, I sure do with the Option will stay. We have seen the benefit that it brings, and I love watching it when it sings.

That said, I wouldn't mind seeing a guy from CPJ's tree as an OC here with a CEO type or Dminded HC.
 

JacketFromUGA

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4,897
Depends what you call rebuilding. I personally want to say none and our results should be consistent to what CPJ could've/would've gotten which is 6-6 or higher.
 

bravejason

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
307
CPJ inherited a 7 win team and turned it into an 9 win team, which Chan was able to do just once in 6 years. Then the next year CPJ won an ACC Championship and 11 games, neither of Chan was able to do. Now that we will have a new coach next year (and I'm fully expecting it'll be a non-triple option coach), everyone is contemplating how bad the season might be or how long it might take to re-build. What conclusions can we draw from the state of affairs? Perhaps CPJ is a really good coach? Sure. Perhaps the CPJ's version of the triple option is a really good system? Of course. CPJ won with "someone else's" players and won with his own (e.g., 2014). Apparently, the new guy will only be able to win with "his" players.

Now that I've got that off my chest, I'll answer the OP's question. Provided that the new coach does a couple of things, the rebuilding period will hardly be noticeable. First, he must install an offense appropriate for the amount of time the players have. They don't have the time to learn a new playbook every week, so the new offense needs to have a standard set of plays that the players can rep every day and then each week the coach adds a couple of wrinkles to attack the opposing team's weakness. The offense does not have to be a system offense, but it needs consistency in it's approach - an identity, if you like. Second, the coach must install an offense that lets the players play in space. If he wants to line up in a classic I and blow people off the ball with a power run, the offense won't be successful. Think about the triple option, when the defense clogged the middle, either we ran rocket toss or pitched it on the triple - either way got the ball to a player with some room to maneuver. Third, keep the defensive staff intact. If the new coach tries to re-do both the offense and defense, it'll be too much - too many mental errors to overcome. Some coaches can turnover both schemes, but most coaches are not having to make such a drastic change on one side of the ball.
 
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A little different angle from the other coaching threads.... Because GT has run the option for 11 years, and recruiting season is essentially over for 2019 season, if a coach is brought in with a pro-style system or spread passing system, it is possible that the team is terrible next year... As in, 2 wins terrible.

However... if you brought in Monken, Ken, Lunsford, Bohannan, Debesse, etc you would presumably keep going with a pretty good team next year. Probably win at least 8 games and compete for the division.

I guess the question is... how much rebuilding are you willing to tolerate as a fan? 1 season? 4 seasons? none?
If your inclusion of "Ken" means Whisenhunt, they how the hell do you think he would do well next year?
 

grandpa jacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
624
A little different angle from the other coaching threads.... Because GT has run the option for 11 years, and recruiting season is essentially over for 2019 season, if a coach is brought in with a pro-style system or spread passing system, it is possible that the team is terrible next year... As in, 2 wins terrible.

However... if you brought in Monken, Ken, Lunsford, Bohannan, Debesse, etc you would presumably keep going with a pretty good team next year. Probably win at least 8 games and compete for the division.

I guess the question is... how much rebuilding are you willing to tolerate as a fan? 1 season? 4 seasons? none?
I dont think we will suffer beyond the 1st year, year one we might only win 4 or 5.
 

WreckinGT

Helluva Engineer
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3,151
2 wins would be unacceptable no matter what. I could live with 4-5 wins year one. Year two, I expect to make a bowl game. Year 3+ we should be competing for our division.
 

YJMD

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,619
Depends on whether we are showing a progressive path. If, for example recruiting upticks, our players are bought into the new system and staff, and we are showing progress in executing what we're asked to do, then I'm fully on board regardless of the W-L record. If we're doing something unique, e.g. an aggressive new option-based scheme but innovative, then I'm willing to tolerate more. If we go to pro-style and muddle along with par for the course recruiting, I'm not going to be excited at all. Overall there's no way I'm going to give up my support just because of results on the field. The worst thing for me is if we started doing shady stuff or players bad-mouthed the new staff, major player discipline issues off the field, etc. I'm not asking for us to be saints, but I won't support any team that looks to get away with anything it can for the sake of winning. Under Paul, we have had an integrity that we should all respect.
 

lv20gt

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,578
CPJ inherited a 7 win team and turned it into an 9 win team, which Chan was able to do just once in 6 years. Then the next year CPJ won an ACC Championship and 11 games, neither of Chan was able to do. Now that we will have a new coach next year (and I'm fully expecting it'll be a non-triple option coach), everyone is contemplating how bad the season might be or how long it might take to re-build. What conclusions can we draw from the state of affairs? Perhaps CPJ is a really good coach? Sure. Perhaps the CPJ's version of the triple option is a really good system? Of course. CPJ won with "someone else's" players and won with his own (e.g., 2014). Apparently, the new guy will only be able to win with "his" players.

There are two major differences between 2008 and 2019. For starters Johnson inherited a tremendous DL that we really leaned on in 2008. Had Johnson inherited the same level of defense we had in 2018 he doesn't win 9 games. He probably wouldn't have won 7. Simply put, the next coach doesn't have the same level of inherited defense. Also, while Johnson was instilling a new offense he did inherit the right pieces for it. There is a good argument that he inherited the best RB, WR, and QB of his tenure. And IMO only really QB is debatable. Sheer talent carried that team on offense in year one at times. And that situation really isn't true now. We have a couple of good backs, but no notable WRs, and a QB who may or may not fit well. At the time people were willing to give Johnson time to get his system in place. It's only in retrospect that we know how good of a situation he inherited. It could be the same with a new coach, but we know for certain he won't inherit the same level of defense, and none of our recent classes has been best of the past 20 years good either.
 

Boaty1

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,104
CPJ inherited a 7 win team and turned it into an 9 win team, which Chan was able to do just once in 6 years. Then the next year CPJ won an ACC Championship and 11 games, neither of Chan was able to do. Now that we will have a new coach next year (and I'm fully expecting it'll be a non-triple option coach), everyone is contemplating how bad the season might be or how long it might take to re-build. What conclusions can we draw from the state of affairs? Perhaps CPJ is a really good coach? Sure. Perhaps the CPJ's version of the triple option is a really good system? Of course. CPJ won with "someone else's" players and won with his own (e.g., 2014). Apparently, the new guy will only be able to win with "his" players.

Now that I've got that off my chest, I'll answer the OP's question. Provided that the new coach does a couple of things, the rebuilding period will hardly be noticeable. First, he must install an offense appropriate for the amount of time the players have. They don't have the time to learn a new playbook every week, so the new offense needs to have a standard set of plays that the players can rep every day and then each week the coach adds a couple of wrinkles to attack the opposing team's weakness. The offense does not have to be a system offense, but it needs consistency in it's approach - an identity, if you like. Second, the coach must install an offense that lets the players play in space. If he wants to line up in a classic I and blow people off the ball with a power run, the offense won't be successful. Think about the triple option, when the defense clogged the middle, either we ran rocket toss or pitched it on the triple - either way got the ball to a player with some room to maneuver. Third, keep the defensive staff intact. If the new coach tries to re-do both the offense and defense, it'll be too much - too many mental errors to overcome. Some coaches can turnover both schemes, but most coaches are not having to make such a drastic change on one side of the ball.

This post just shows a complete lack of understanding about the state of our program now compared to 07. But I see it consistently from the pro Johnson guys. Johnson had his highest 2 year total of wins in his first 2 years here. The reason is it was the most talented teams he had and the reason for that was Gailey recruited them here under a different system.
 

gtg391z

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
459
We have no T.E's. I am pretty sure any offense will need them except the 3O. You have to give the new coach several years no matter who it is.
 

Boaty1

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,104
There are two major differences between 2008 and 2019. For starters Johnson inherited a tremendous DL that we really leaned on in 2008. Had Johnson inherited the same level of defense we had in 2018 he doesn't win 9 games. He probably wouldn't have won 7. Simply put, the next coach doesn't have the same level of inherited defense. Also, while Johnson was instilling a new offense he did inherit the right pieces for it. There is a good argument that he inherited the best RB, WR, and QB of his tenure. And IMO only really QB is debatable. Sheer talent carried that team on offense in year one at times. And that situation really isn't true now. We have a couple of good backs, but no notable WRs, and a QB who may or may not fit well. At the time people were willing to give Johnson time to get his system in place. It's only in retrospect that we know how good of a situation he inherited. It could be the same with a new coach, but we know for certain he won't inherit the same level of defense, and none of our recent classes has been best of the past 20 years good either.

Agreed with everything other than the 07 class being the best in 20 years at that time. O'Leary was consistently recruiting similar classes before he left.
 
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