How long?

[Northeast Stinger]

Yep. And all those skill guys are just standing on the sidelines and never seeing the field. Look at all the current WR’s we have on the roster yet only about 5 actually play. Same with the DB’s. If we have 85 schollys and we know our problem is the OLine and DLine we should have 22 OLinemen on the roster 22 DLinemen on the roster at all times. That’s 44 of 85. Add in 3 QB’s, 5 RB’s, 3 TE’s, 6 LB’s, 1 Kicker, 1 Punter to get to 63 out of 85. That leaves 22 schollys for WR’s and DB’s which is more than enough. Then make every preferred walk on be a Linemen of some sort. You can’t tell me if we have 22 OLinemen and 5 preferred walk ons from Georgia high schools that 5-8 wouldn’t emerge as solid. Same on the defensive line. Nobody cares what the star rankings say after their freshmen season.

We have proven that the lines are the engine. When Johnson’s offense was humming it was because of the OLine and guys like Shaq Mason, etc. Same in 1990 and during Lil Joe‘s years. Without the line we saw Shawn Jones regress and Justin Thomas regress during their final seasons. It’s just maddening when every town in this state has big ole boys who can block but unless their parents send them to camps they either don't get recruited or end up in lower divisions. I tell you right now that Valdosta State has a better OLine than we do. How does that happen?

I can’t speak for everyone but I think many of us see the roster imbalance and marvel.

Here is how I’ve always interpreted that.

We have a hard time getting linemen to come to Tech. We are getting every lineman to come we can get, even going to foreign countries if necessary. We end up with scholarships potentially being left over, which does no good for anyone. So we take the best available athletes with scholarships that are left. The rationale is use it or lose it and you never know when you might stumble onto a program changing recruit.

I don’t have any doubt that all the coaches we’ve had know what we need. But roster management at Tech, where we’ve always struggled to have consistent line play, has got to be a bear of a challenge.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

I can’t speak for everyone but I think many of us see the roster imbalance and marvel.

Here is how I’ve always interpreted that.

We have a hard time getting linemen to come to Tech. We are getting every lineman to come we can get, even going to foreign countries if necessary. We end up with scholarships potentially being left over, which does no good for anyone. So we take the best available athletes with scholarships that are left. The rationale is use it or lose it and you never know when you might stumble onto a program changing recruit.

I don’t have any doubt that all the coaches we’ve had know what we need. But roster management at Tech, where we’ve always struggled to have consistent line play, has got to be a bear of a challenge.

You are absolutely correct. That is how it has played out. My quibble and utter fascination is that those leftover scholarships should be given to linemen instead of the “best remaining athletes”. We should do what others always do to us - which is identify which lower level schools seem to get it right with linemen and then poach from them with those “leftover” schollys. Take a Valdosta State for example. Just offer their linemen who have verbally committed to them. Those guys would love to sign with a P5 team and their mama’s would love for their baby from Schley or Berrien county to get a GT education. Now we just added another 10 linemen. If after year 1 they are clearly not D1 material then they’ll portal out. But if we find 2 contributors out of those 10 then that’s huge. The portal is a weapon we need to use for the lines every year whether it’s getting guys or sending out guys who fail their 1 year audition. But the key is to have coaches who can identify if a player has “It” as a lighter 18 year old and let him grow into a solid junior. It’s just a statistics game and we need numbers instead of bringing in 20 DB’s who will portal out because they never see the field and are just dead spots.

Down here in South Georgia I see linemen every Friday night who aren‘t the envy of the star ratings due to smaller size or lower classification competition who but are just mean SOB’s who get it done. These guys end up at really solid lower level schools and would help GT immensely. Collins came down here and got a Linemen from Lee County all due to size and everyone was scratching their head because they knew the other guys on his high school OLine were way better.

 

[4shotB]

Down here in South Georgia I see linemen every Friday night who aren‘t the envy of the star ratings due to smaller size or lower classification competition who but are just mean SOB’s who get it done. These guys end up at really solid lower level schools and would help GT immensely. Collins came down here and got a Linemen from Lee County all due to size and everyone was scratching their head because they knew the other guys on his high school OLine were way better.

I agree with this...a guy who has P5 size and quickness should be absolutely dominating in the HS level. Some exception may be at a really small level where the coaching isn't all that good. But still, a 6-5,300 lb. guy with good feet who isn't just steamrolling guys at the 1A or 2A level would raise some serious question marks in my mind as a recruiter. Would imply that the guy doesn't have the instinct or drive to succeed. I know that there are guys who who participate in high school sports for reasons other than they just love to play their particular sport.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

You are absolutely correct. That is how it has played out. My quibble and utter fascination is that those leftover scholarships should be given to linemen instead of the “best remaining athletes”. We should do what others always do to us - which is identify which lower level schools seem to get it right with linemen and then poach from them with those “leftover” schollys. Take a Valdosta State for example. Just offer their linemen who have verbally committed to them. Those guys would love to sign with a P5 team and their mama’s would love for their baby from Schley or Berrien county to get a GT education. Now we just added another 10 linemen. If after year 1 they are clearly not D1 material then they’ll portal out. But if we find 2 contributors out of those 10 then that’s huge. The portal is a weapon we need to use for the lines every year whether it’s getting guys or sending out guys who fail their 1 year audition. But the key is to have coaches who can identify if a player has “It” as a lighter 18 year old and let him grow into a solid junior. It’s just a statistics game and we need numbers instead of bringing in 20 DB’s who will portal out because they never see the field and are just dead spots.

Down here in South Georgia I see linemen every Friday night who aren‘t the envy of the star ratings due to smaller size or lower classification competition who but are just mean SOB’s who get it done. These guys end up at really solid lower level schools and would help GT immensely. Collins came down here and got a Linemen from Lee County all due to size and everyone was scratching their head because they knew the other guys on his high school OLine were way better.

I have always said that things often SEEM out of whack, but if you look into it, you will find what we are doing is in line with other major, successful programs. Here's our roster breakdown compared to CLemson's.

Pos	GT	%	Clem	%
OL	18	16%	22	17%
RB	8	7%	8	6%
WR	15	13%	19	14%
QB	6	5%	6	5%
TE	9	8%	8	6%
DL	21	18%	22	17%
LB	9	8%	16	12%
DB	23	20%	22	17%
P	3	3%	5	4%
K	1	1%	3	2%
LS	2	2%	2	2%
Total	115	100%	133	100%

 

[4shotB]

I have always said that things often SEEM out of whack, but if you look into it, you will find what we are doing is in line with other major, successful programs. Here's our roster breakdown compared to CLemson's.

Pos	GT	%	Clem	%
OL	18	16%	22	17%
RB	8	7%	8	6%
WR	15	13%	19	14%
QB	6	5%	6	5%
TE	9	8%	8	6%
DL	21	18%	22	17%
LB	9	8%	16	12%
DB	23	20%	22	17%
P	3	3%	5	4%
K	1	1%	3	2%
LS	2	2%	2	2%
Total	115	100%	133	100%

I think think the only thing that sticks out to me is the difference in LB %. Not only are we scary thin there but I think, as Matthew McConnahey (sp?) said in the Wolf of Wall Street, these are rookie numbers and we need to pump them up. I think this helps both depth concerns and on ST's., esp. punt and kick coverage.

 

[bobongo]

I have always said that things often SEEM out of whack, but if you look into it, you will find what we are doing is in line with other major, successful programs. Here's our roster breakdown compared to CLemson's.

Pos	GT	%	Clem	%
OL	18	16%	22	17%
RB	8	7%	8	6%
WR	15	13%	19	14%
QB	6	5%	6	5%
TE	9	8%	8	6%
DL	21	18%	22	17%
LB	9	8%	16	12%
DB	23	20%	22	17%
P	3	3%	5	4%
K	1	1%	3	2%
LS	2	2%	2	2%
Total	115	100%	133	100%

But the thing is, when you've got plenty of 4-star DB's and receivers and you struggle to get good linemen, it might be a good idea to let the receivers and DB's alone for a while and overload on linemen in hopes of finding a few who will work out for you. Or at least, it seems that way to me.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

But the thing is, when you've got plenty of 4-star DB's and receivers and you struggle to get good linemen, it might be a good idea to let the receivers and DB's alone for a while and overload on linemen in hopes of finding a few who will work out for you. Or at least, it seems that way to me.

My thought is that the coaches know better than we do how to construct a team. When our numbers align with major programs, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say they are more likely to be right than fans.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

I think think the only thing that sticks out to me is the difference in LB %. Not only are we scary thin there but I think, as Matthew McConnahey (sp?) said in the Wolf of Wall Street, these are rookie numbers and we need to pump them up. I think this helps both depth concerns and on ST's., esp. punt and kick coverage.

We play a 4-2-5 vs the Clemson 4-3. Probably drives the difference in LBs.

 

[slugboy]

We play a 4-2-5 vs the Clemson 4-3. Probably drives the difference in LBs.

It looks like the numbers include walk-ons, and Clemson has 15 more players than we do

Some of their WR and DB numbers might be swollen a bit by walk-ons.

LBs and DBs are important for special teams, and that might affect some of our squads

 

[bobongo]

My thought is that the coaches know better than we do how to construct a team. When our numbers align with major programs, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say they are more likely to be right than fans.

Harumph. I don't accede to this notion that Authority with a capital "A" is always correct. They've been proven wrong way too often for that. The coach I'm talking about was 10-28, left us with a dismal OL, and got fired. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say he was wrong. I'm sure he knows a lot more than me about football in general, but he was wrong about that. Doing everything like Clemson is a one-size-fits-all approach. We have a different situation here. Didn't you yourself mention how Collins eschewed two of Paul's OL recruits? In retrospect, that looks like a bad call.

 

[kg01]

Harumph. I don't accede to this notion that Authority with a capital "A" is always correct. They've been proven wrong way too often for that. Blah, blah, blah .. more words.

Finally something you get right we agree on. I hate the concept that the coach is always right. They screw stuff up too.

 

[4shotB]

Finally something you get right we agree on. I hate the concept that the coach is always right. They screw stuff up too.

Can you provide any examples?

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Harumph. I don't accede to this notion that Authority with a capital "A" is always correct. They've been proven wrong way too often for that. The coach I'm talking about was 10-28, left us with a dismal OL, and got fired. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say he was wrong. I'm sure he knows a lot more than me about football in general, but he was wrong about that. Doing everything like Clemson is a one-size-fits-all approach. We have a different situation here. Didn't you yourself mention how Collins eschewed two of Paul's OL recruits? In retrospect, that looks like a bad call.

I would imagine it's in line with other football programs as well, not just Clemson. I picked Clemson just as a barometer to check against. I am not appealing to authority here, but just pointing out that we are in line with other football teams that get good results.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

It looks like the numbers include walk-ons, and Clemson has 15 more players than we do

Some of their WR and DB numbers might be swollen a bit by walk-ons.

LBs and DBs are important for special teams, and that might affect some of our squads

This is the total roster, including walk-ons. They have 133 on the roster compared to our 115. That's why I included % to compare against.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

Augusta, I get your reasoning and one day we will be back there. But you can’t compare percentages with Clemson because they get a much higher tier of Linemen to begin with so a much larger percent of the 17% will hit for them. A much lower percent of our 17% will hit. So if Clemson gets 10 OLinemen who are quality players we may get 5. For us to match their 10 and have the same depth our 17% needs to jump closer to 30%.

Let me ask when was the last time we ever heard an announcer say “boy GT is hurting because they don’t have enough WR’s or DB’s who can play”. Never. Every team has dozens of 6’1-6’4” dudes who can run. Yet every season and every game we get reminded how we have zero depth along the OLine and that player A had to move from right tackle to left guard because the backup can’t handle the blindside, etc. Its obvious what we have been doing with roster creation isn’t working. And now a lot of these DB’s and WR’s who have never stepped on the field for GT will transfer and we will have nothing to show for them, Heck, GT could probably just go to Cobb and Gwinnett and walk away with so many OLinemen that it would be impossible for all of them to stink.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

Yep. And all those skill guys are just standing on the sidelines and never seeing the field. Look at all the current WR’s we have on the roster yet only about 5 actually play. Same with the DB’s. If we have 85 schollys and we know our problem is the OLine and DLine we should have 22 OLinemen on the roster 22 DLinemen on the roster at all times. That’s 44 of 85. Add in 3 QB’s, 5 RB’s, 3 TE’s, 6 LB’s, 1 Kicker, 1 Punter to get to 63 out of 85. That leaves 22 schollys for WR’s and DB’s which is more than enough. Then make every preferred walk on be a Linemen of some sort. You can’t tell me if we have 22 OLinemen and 5 preferred walk ons from Georgia high schools that 5-8 wouldn’t emerge as solid. Same on the defensive line. Nobody cares what the star rankings say after their freshmen season.

We have proven that the lines are the engine. When Johnson’s offense was humming it was because of the OLine and guys like Shaq Mason, etc. Same in 1990 and during Lil Joe‘s years. Without the line we saw Shawn Jones regress and Justin Thomas regress during their final seasons. It’s just maddening when every town in this state has big ole boys who can block but unless their parents send them to camps they either don't get recruited or end up in lower divisions. I tell you right now that Valdosta State has a better OLine than we do. How does that happen?

The trouble with this post...is that it makes too much sense. This program, going forward, will need to recruit linemen. If you have to go to Ohio and Pennsylvania go there. Bribe them, kidnap them, promise them the moon but get linemen. Maybe a few of them have some friends that will make for good skill position players but the foundation for a solid football program is always linemen.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

My thought is that the coaches know better than we do how to construct a team. When our numbers align with major programs, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say they are more likely to be right than fans.

I used to think that as well...then Collins came along. Now I am not so sure.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Augusta, I get your reasoning and one day we will be back there. But you can’t compare percentages with Clemson because they get a much higher tier of Linemen to begin with so a much larger percent of the 17% will hit for them. A much lower percent of our 17% will hit. So if Clemson gets 10 OLinemen who are quality players we may get 5. For us to match their 10 and have the same depth our 17% needs to jump closer to 30%.

Let me ask when was the last time we ever heard an announcer say “boy GT is hurting because they don’t have enough WR’s or DB’s who can play”. Never. Every team has dozens of 6’1-6’4” dudes who can run. Yet every season and every game we get reminded how we have zero depth along the OLine and that player A had to move from right tackle to left guard because the backup can’t handle the blindside, etc. Its obvious what we have been doing with roster creation isn’t working. And now a lot of these DB’s and WR’s who have never stepped on the field for GT will transfer and we will have nothing to show for them, Heck, GT could probably just go to Cobb and Gwinnett and walk away with so many OLinemen that it would be impossible for all of them to stink.

The answer to that is to recruit better linemen, not more. It's a zero sum game. You're robbing Peter to pay Paul. I think most coaches have figured out where their roster numbers need to be.

 

[bobongo]

The answer to that is to recruit better linemen, not more. It's a zero sum game. You're robbing Peter to pay Paul. I think most coaches have figured out where there roster numbers need to be.

They don't know for sure how any of these guys are going to pan out, so it might behoove them to get a few extra bodies in here so we can have more chances of finding some good ones. If we could get good quality linemen out of high school, we could do just like all the other programs and be fine. The line has been a chronic problem and it's vital to success on the field. One-size-fits-all isn't working. We don't seem to have nearly as much trouble finding good skill players as linemen, so in this case it might make sense to take a couple, two, three extra linemen at the expense of some other positions. What if we shaved one receiver and one DB off the usual quotas and added two linemen? Under the circumstances, that makes a lot of sense to me. Just as a reminder: Shaq Mason was a 2-star.

 

[Oldgoldandwhite]

Have we ever had 85 on scholarship at the end of fall camp?