House vs. NCAA

[MacDaddy2]

Pretty sure soccer is just going to be for women

Might want to consider the elimination of non-revenue sports given the lawsuit settlement that is coming from DC

 

[LongforDodd]

Might want to consider the elimination of non-revenue sports given the lawsuit settlement that is coming from DC

Might want to consider the elimination of non-revenue sports given the lawsuit settlement that is coming from DC

So these lawsuits would result in a net loss in revenues to the GTAA? IDK, myself. Just askin'.

 

[roadkill]

So these lawsuits would result in a net loss in revenues to the GTAA? IDK, myself. Just askin'.

Not so much a loss of revenue, but a much higher expense. The suit is asking for back pay for athletes. At least, I assume the reference is to House v. NCAA. Although it's being heard in CA, not DC. (Unless it is appealed to the Supreme Ct)

 

[LongforDodd]

Not so much a loss of revenue, but a much higher expense. The suit is asking for back pay for athletes.

Back pay? How far back? And why?

And which athletes? Everyone?

 

[roadkill]

Back pay? How far back? And why?

And which athletes? Everyone?

Judge's ruling puts billions on the line for NCAA

Class-action status in the damages portion of an antitrust lawsuit against the NCAA was granted by a federal judge on Friday, a decision that could put the NCAA on the hook for a potential multibillion dollar payout to former and current college athletes.

www.espn.com

 

[stinger78]

Pretty sure soccer is just going to be for women

GT hasn’t added a men’s varsity sport since before I was there and that’s a LONG time ago now. They nixed men’s gymnastics and wrestling while I was there and have never looked back.

 

[billga99]

Judge's ruling puts billions on the line for NCAA

Class-action status in the damages portion of an antitrust lawsuit against the NCAA was granted by a federal judge on Friday, a decision that could put the NCAA on the hook for a potential multibillion dollar payout to former and current college athletes.

www.espn.com

Depending on how punitive this award became, it would bankrupt most D1 athletic departments. At that point, I do think you would see Congress step in versus having College Athletics collapse. The question would be what would the new structure look like? Making athletes employees and sharing in revenue PLUS NIL doesn't make sense to me. If you do true revenue sharing, then everyone would need to benefit like a union. At the end, this would do more for competitive balance than what is going on now. I also think this would directly result in loss of sports and longer term less money for coaches salaries.

 

[stinger78]

It seems to me that a class action lawsuit would require some type of antitrust exemption to spare college athletics. Maybe that’s the way out, though I’m sure it would be challenged ad infinitum.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

From what I have read so far, the NCAA will pay out the damages, not individual university athletic departments.

Where schools will be hurt is in moving forward. Added cost to the business model going forward.

 

[forensicbuzz]

We're going to see massive divestiture of athletic associations that are outside the schools and those that are integral to the schools will be removed.

 

[RonJohn]

From what I have read so far, the NCAA will pay out the damages, not individual university athletic departments.

Isn't that kind of like saying that if the HOA does something bad and is sued that the HOA will pay all the fees, not the individual home owners? The NCAA doesn't really have any revenue generating activities, except for fees from schools and media revenue from the athletic product of the schools. In a similar way to HOAs, the NCAA is just an organization of the schools. If the NCAA needs money, it has to come from the schools. If the NCAA declares bankruptcy, I would assume that the lawyers will try to press the point that the schools were collectively in charge of the NCAA and try to get the money out of the schools. Whether that will work or not, I have no idea.

(HOAs in the idealistic sense. Not developer run control arms.)

 

[orientalnc]

Depending on how punitive this award became, it would bankrupt most D1 athletic departments. At that point, I do think you would see Congress step in versus having College Athletics collapse. The question would be what would the new structure look like? Making athletes employees and sharing in revenue PLUS NIL doesn't make sense to me. If you do true revenue sharing, then everyone would need to benefit like a union. At the end, this would do more for competitive balance than what is going on now. I also think this would directly result in loss of sports and longer term less money for coaches salaries.

I think it's reasonable to argue that colleges should not be in the sports business at all. What started as friendly (well, not always) competition among nearby schools as a diversion has morphed into a multibillion dollar entertainment business. What if college sports disappeared completely? While we might be unhappy about losing the focus of our sedentary idle time obsession, what else would be lost? Might we find something more worthy of our effort?

https://history.msu.edu/hst329/files/2015/05/LewisGuy-TheBeginning.pdf

 

[stinger78]

I think it's reasonable to argue that colleges should not be in the sports business at all. What started as friendly (well, not always) competition among nearby schools as a diversion has morphed into a multibillion dollar entertainment business. What if college sports disappeared completely? While we might be unhappy about losing the focus of our sedentary idle time obsession, what else would be lost? Might we find something more worthy of our effort?

https://history.msu.edu/hst329/files/2015/05/LewisGuy-TheBeginning.pdf

I think it would reappear in an amateur version at many schools and most Tech fans would follow the team.

UGA fans would be lost, or they would be following a totally independent minor league pro team named after their former football team.

 

[roadkill]

Isn't that kind of like saying that if the HOA does something bad and is sued that the HOA will pay all the fees, not the individual home owners? The NCAA doesn't really have any revenue generating activities, except for fees from schools and media revenue from the athletic product of the schools. In a similar way to HOAs, the NCAA is just an organization of the schools. If the NCAA needs money, it has to come from the schools. If the NCAA declares bankruptcy, I would assume that the lawyers will try to press the point that the schools were collectively in charge of the NCAA and try to get the money out of the schools. Whether that will work or not, I have no idea.

(HOAs in the idealistic sense. Not developer run control arms.)

March Madness media income is paid to the NCAA as the sponsor. The NCAA then distributes it to conferences and other funds. The last tournament brought in nearly $1B according to the article below, which when added to other tournaments the NCAA sponsors, brings their annual revenue to $1.29B. So the NCAA has the means to distribute a fairly large sum to athletes, should they settle the case. My conclusion is that we are not going to see a wholesale reorganization of AAs across the sport.
This article does a good job of explaining the NCAA's revenue and distribution.

NCAA’s Cash Cow Remains (for Now) Amid Wholesale Change

The NCAA's men's March Madness tournament brings in the vast majority of its $1.29 billion in revenue, and most of that is from the Turner/CBS TV deal

www.sportico.com

 

[RonJohn]

March Madness media income is paid to the NCAA as the sponsor. The NCAA then distributes it to conferences and other funds. The last tournament brought in nearly $1B according to the article below, which when added to other tournaments the NCAA sponsors, brings their annual revenue to $1.29B. So the NCAA has the means to distribute a fairly large sum to athletes, should they settle the case. My conclusion is that we are not going to see a wholesale reorganization of AAs across the sport.
This article does a good job of explaining the NCAA's revenue and distribution.

NCAA’s Cash Cow Remains (for Now) Amid Wholesale Change

The NCAA's men's March Madness tournament brings in the vast majority of its $1.29 billion in revenue, and most of that is from the Turner/CBS TV deal

www.sportico.com

But that is still mainly money from the schools. If the NCAA doesn't pay out money for tournament appearances, then conferences have less money to pay to schools. Any money the NCAA pays out for any reason comes from the schools, or from money that would have otherwise been paid to the schools.

I think that athletic associations are going to change. If this lawsuit doesn't settle and isn't successful, there are still several other things going on. Lawsuits about unions and employee status, government agencies declaring that students are employees, state governments preventing the NCAA from enforcing rules, etc. There is no way that NCAA athletics in 10 years will be exactly the same as they are now.

 

[Root4GT]

I think it's reasonable to argue that colleges should not be in the sports business at all. What started as friendly (well, not always) competition among nearby schools as a diversion has morphed into a multibillion dollar entertainment business. What if college sports disappeared completely? While we might be unhappy about losing the focus of our sedentary idle time obsession, what else would be lost? Might we find something more worthy of our effort?

https://history.msu.edu/hst329/files/2015/05/LewisGuy-TheBeginning.pdf

There is currently too much money for college football and basketball to disappear. Lots of other sports might though.

 

[roadkill]

But that is still mainly money from the schools. If the NCAA doesn't pay out money for tournament appearances, then conferences have less money to pay to schools. Any money the NCAA pays out for any reason comes from the schools, or from money that would have otherwise been paid to the schools.

I think that athletic associations are going to change. If this lawsuit doesn't settle and isn't successful, there are still several other things going on. Lawsuits about unions and employee status, government agencies declaring that students are employees, state governments preventing the NCAA from enforcing rules, etc. There is no way that NCAA athletics in 10 years will be exactly the same as they are now.

Correct. I was merely attempting to clarify that the NCAA, unlike most HOAs, has its own revenue stream apart from dues income. No doubt if the distribution of NCAA revenue were to change to be more directly to athletes, the revenue redistributed back to conferences and schools would drop.

If current trends and proposals continue in their current directions, the NCAA may relinquish governance over football to the conferences or some entity that the conferences and the media partners agree to. The NCAA could retain governance over basketball and non-revenue sports, and become a clearinghouse for basketball revenue distribution to athletes.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Isn't that kind of like saying that if the HOA does something bad and is sued that the HOA will pay all the fees, not the individual home owners? The NCAA doesn't really have any revenue generating activities, except for fees from schools and media revenue from the athletic product of the schools. In a similar way to HOAs, the NCAA is just an organization of the schools. If the NCAA needs money, it has to come from the schools. If the NCAA declares bankruptcy, I would assume that the lawyers will try to press the point that the schools were collectively in charge of the NCAA and try to get the money out of the schools. Whether that will work or not, I have no idea.

(HOAs in the idealistic sense. Not developer run control arms.)

I'm just the messenger.

"The NCAA's national office might be footing the bill for a settlement expected to be more than $2.7 billion in the landmark House v. NCAA lawsuit and other related antitrust cases, in hopes of reshaping and stabilizing the college sports industry, according to multiple sources on Thursday."

"https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/ncaa-pay-27b-settle-nil-suits-sources/story?id=109889522"

 

[RonJohn]

I'm just the messenger.

"The NCAA's national office might be footing the bill for a settlement expected to be more than $2.7 billion in the landmark House v. NCAA lawsuit and other related antitrust cases, in hopes of reshaping and stabilizing the college sports industry, according to multiple sources on Thursday."

"https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/ncaa-pay-27b-settle-nil-suits-sources/story?id=109889522"

I understand that. I was just pointing out that the NCAA is only an group of colleges that compete in athletics. NAIA is another one. Not you, but I think too many people see the NCAA as some kind of independent organization. Since the NCAA is just a group of it's member schools, it has no way to raise money to pay such a settlement without either getting it from the member schools, or using funds that would have been dispersed to the member schools.

 

[forensicbuzz]

I understand that. I was just pointing out that the NCAA is only an group of colleges that compete in athletics. NAIA is another one. Not you, but I think too many people see the NCAA as some kind of independent organization. Since the NCAA is just a group of it's member schools, it has no way to raise money to pay such a settlement without either getting it from the member schools, or using funds that would have been dispersed to the member schools.

Like the ACC or any of the other conferences, the NCAA is a separate legal entity. It sponsors several tournaments and collects the proceeds of those tournaments. They have the money before the schools get it, so if the TV and ad revenue are encumbered, that money will not be available to be passed on to the schools. Remember, these are invitational tournaments. Schools participate voluntarily. Basketball is a very different animal in the NIL stuff than football.