Head Coach Wars: A New Role-Playing Game

GTpdm

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I was reading the “Is there news (no news)” thread, looking for insightful post (yes, there really are some good posts in that thread, if you wade through enough BS), and I saw this one by RamblinRed (abbreviated here, but the whole dang post is worth a read…):
There are 3 legs to the stool - recruiting, development, coaching.
GT is unlikely to ever excel at #1, so it needs to excel at #2 and 3.
A bit further on, I saw this:
No one should be kidding themselves - #1 is of paramount importance. We shouldn't make the mistake of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Colllins' only good attribute as an HC is his recruiting ability. It's all the other stuff he's lacking.

Both posts got me thinking…if you could assign a numerical score in each area—Recruiting, Development, and (game day) Coaching, what would you choose? And then I thought, since you are assigning numbers, make it a role-playing game, like D&D. You know…set key attributes for a character that define their abilities.

In D&D, each attribute is determined randomly in a 3-18 range, by the sum of 3 dice. God forbid we rely on that mechanism for creating a Head Coach character. What if you roll a 15 for Recruiting, and 5s for both Development and Coaching? (Can you imagine what that would be like?;))

I thought instead: what if you used the other, zero-sum, RPG character-creation mechanism: give the player a fixed number of attribute points, and let them split those starting point however they choose.

So here is the College Football Coach RPG character generation rules:
  1. You get 12 attributes points for your HC, to be split among three categories: Recruiting, Development, and Coaching. That’s it, 12 points. You are building a Level-1 P5 coach (all we can afford right now), not a Level-20 Saban-caliber coaching master.
  2. Each category gets a minimum of one point.
  3. We are talking about the HC’s skill in each area, not how successful the program as a whole is in each area. The idea is, what distribution of the three skill does the HC bring to the table as a starting point for building the program?
  4. No monkey business about assistant coaches. You can’t give your HC a 10 in some category with the assumption that your OC or DC will make up the deficit in other categories. This is all about your HC defining your program.
With those guide rules, we can identify the three “archetype” head coaches:

The Recruitinator (10-1-1)
This young, energetic, and immensely charismatic coach is a real charmer. With a few words and a smile, he can convince every potential recruit that they are NFL bound—but only if they join HIS program. He is also a master of dirty recruiting tactics, often tricking fans of other teams into negative-recruiting their own program.

Favorite Strategy: At away games, the Recruitinator likes to casually stroll by the fan section hosting his opponent’s visiting recruits, poaching 2 or 3 of the best ones on the spot.

Special Ability: Once per recruiting season, he may helicopter to anywhere in the continental US, and immediately extract a Letter of Commitment from a 5-star who was not even considering his program.

Weakness: Gameday—specifically, anything after the team walkthrough. On the sidelines, give him a headset not connected to anything and stand him as close as possible to the section with visiting recruits. Have assistants constantly rushing up to him with clipboards, pretend to receive sage advice from him, and rush away again. It will help him impress the recruits, while keeping him out of the way of the real business. DO NOT let him attempt to call a time out (see: the Gameday Wizard), and make sure you have a Get-Bak Coach to pull him away any time he approaches within 15 yards of a game official.

Vulnerabilities: His immense charisma leaves him prone to womanizing. Keep him away from female assistants/trainers, the other coaches’s wives, and any of the women’s sport teams. Basically, don’t leave him alone in a room with anything that breathes.

The Hoss Whisperer (1-10-1)
This coach turns 2-star recruits into 4-star players, 3-star recruits into 5-star players, and 4-star recruits into…well…you DID see the Recruiting attribute of “1”, didn’t you? He doesn’t get 4- or 5-star recruits…not that he ever needs them.

Favorite Strategy: Punting on first down. The Hoss Whisperer fields a team of players who have become Total Ballers, excelling at having no game plan. What better play call than a special teams extravaganza, to make you players‘ havok potential work for you? Surprisingly, they score on half their punts.

Special Ability: Once per game, he can call one player aside for a pep-talk. For that player the true meaning of football will come through, and he will gain the strength of ten Grinches, plus two…but only for the remainder of that quarter.

Weakness: Defending the Triple Option. Sure, we all know the blueprint for defeating the TO: just play assignment football. But when your team is filled with Total Ballers, asking them to “play assignment football” is like asking an Eskimo to shear a sheep with a banana.

Vulnerability: The NFL Draft. His player development is so legendary that the NFL grants everyone on his team an eligibility waiver, allowing them to be drafted as early as their freshman year.

The Gameday Wizard (1-1-10)
This coach is the ultimate competitor, and a mastermind of the Xs and Os of football. He has also mastered every strategy known to mankind. Sun-Tzu? An amateur. Frederick the Great? A hack. Mister Spock? Can beat him at 3D chess in three moves. Usually makes his halftime adjustments on the fly, during the coin-toss.

Favorite strategy: Scoring on the first play from scrimmage, based on a weakness he observed during the other team’s warmups.

Special Ability: Once per game, he can trick the other team into calling a timeout, rather than using one of his own.

Weakness: Practice. The players at his disposal are exclusively 2-star, and are not likely to get better no matter how many reps they get. The Game Wizard would win every game by 5 or more touchdowns, if only he could get his #*$@%! players to execute, dammit!

Vulnerability: Ironically, tic-tac-toe.


Okay, with those archetypes set, how would YOU distribute the attribute points for YOUR preferred (starting-level) HC? I’m guessing bobongo would go heavy on Recruiting—he sees it as paramount, after all. Would he choose to go all the way to the Recruitinator archetype? Probably not—but I’d be interested to hear how he’d split his 12 points…

Me? I’d probably go 3-5-4. I want to see a rough balance in all areas, but I’m willing to sacrifice some recruiting skill in favor of player development and game day coaching. Recruiting talent is really important, but I figure that having a reputation for developing players—and having game-day coaching that elevates your W/L ratio—can bring in talent based on the program‘s reputation, regardless of the coach’s ability to directly woo recruits.

At least, that’s the way I see it. How would you distribute your 12 attribute points, to create your ideal Level-1 P5 head coach?
 
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iceeater1969

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In all three categories the actual identification of present talent and the amount of potential talent to be devloped is Need 1.

Looks good on HS Friday nites.

Practice wizard but cant play on Saturday

Looks good on set plays but cant make in game adjustments.

Iddntify talent , knowing the limits of that talent, and using a scheme that doesnt overload the talent.

Wiz recruiter, clever trainer, fancy plays are empty w out keen sye forctalent.
 

jgtengineer

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The Gameday Wizard (1-1-10)
This coach is the ultimate competitor, and a mastermind of the Xs and Os of football. He has also mastered every strategy known to mankind. Sun-Tzu? An amateur. Frederick the Great? A hack. Mister Spock? Can beat him at 3D chess in three moves. Usually makes his halftime adjustments on the fly, during the coin-toss.

Favorite strategy: Scoring on the first play from scrimmage, based on a weakness he observed during the other team’s warmups.

Special Ability: Once per game, he can trick the other team into calling a timeout, rather than using one of his own.

Weakness: Practice. The players at his disposal are exclusively 2-star, and are not likely to get better no matter how many reps they get. The Game Wizard would win every game by 5 or more touchdowns, if only he could get his #*$@%! players to execute, dammit!

Vulnerability: Ironically, tic-tac-toe.



You remember that time Coach Johnson made Mark Richt take a time out right out of the half because he came out in gun 4 wide?
 

SecretAgentBuzz

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I was reading the “Is there news (no news)” thread, looking for insightful post (yes, there really are some good posts in that thread, if you wade through enough BS), and I saw this one by RamblinRed (abbreviated here, but the whole dang post is worth a read…):

A bit further on, I saw this:


Both posts got me thinking…if you could assign a numerical score in each area—Recruiting, Development, and (game day) Coaching, what would you choose? And then I thought, since you are assigning numbers, make it a role-playing game, like D&D. You know…set key attributes for a character that define their abilities.

In D&D, each attribute is determined randomly in a 3-18 range, by the sum of 3 dice. God forbid we rely on that mechanism for creating a Head Coach character. What if you roll a 15 for Recruiting, and 5s for both Development and Coaching? (Can you imagine what that would be like?;))

I thought instead: what if you used the other, zero-sum, RPG character-creation mechanism: give the player a fixed number of attribute points, and let them split those starting point however they choose.

So here is the College Football Coach RPG character generation rules:
  1. You get 12 attributes points for your HC, to be split among three categories: Recruiting, Development, and Coaching. That’s it, 12 points. You are building a Level-1 P5 coach (all we can afford right now), not a Level-20 Saban-caliber coaching master.
  2. Each category gets a minimum of one point.
  3. We are talking about the HC’s skill in each area, not how successful the program as a whole is in each area. The idea is, what distribution of the three skill does the HC bring to the table as a starting point for building the program?
  4. No monkey business about assistant coaches. You can’t give your HC a 10 in some category with the assumption that your OC or DC will make up the deficit in other categories. This is all about your HC defining your program.
With those guide rules, we can identify the three “archetype” head coaches:

The Recruitinator (10-1-1)
This young, energetic, and immensely charismatic coach is a real charmer. With a few words and a smile, he can convince every potential recruit that they are NFL bound—but only if they join HIS program. He is also a master of dirty recruiting tactics, often tricking fans of other teams into negative-recruiting their own program.

Favorite Strategy: At away games, the Recruitinator likes to casually stroll by the fan section hosting his opponent’s visiting recruits, poaching 2 or 3 of the best ones on the spot.

Special Ability: Once per recruiting season, he may helicopter to anywhere in the continental US, and immediately extract a Letter of Commitment from a 5-star who was not even considering his program.

Weakness: Gameday—specifically, anything after the team walkthrough. On the sidelines, give him a headset not connected to anything and stand him as close as possible to the section with visiting recruits. Have assistants constantly rushing up to him with clipboards, pretend to receive sage advice from him, and rush away again. It will help him impress the recruits, while keeping him out of the way of the real business. DO NOT let him attempt to call a time out (see: the Gameday Wizard), and make sure you have a Get-Bak Coach to pull him away any time he approaches within 15 yards of a game official.

Vulnerabilities: His immense charisma leaves him prone to womanizing. Keep him away from female assistants/trainers, the other coaches’s wives, and any of the women’s sport teams. Basically, don’t leave him alone in a room with anything that breathes.

The Hoss Whisperer (1-10-1)
This coach turns 2-star recruits into 4-star players, 3-star recruits into 5-star players, and 4-star recruits into…well…you DID see the Recruiting attribute of “1”, didn’t you? He doesn’t get 4- or 5-star recruits…not that he ever needs them.

Favorite Strategy: Punting on first down. The Hoss Whisperer fields a team of players who have become Total Ballers, excelling at having no game plan. What better play call than a special teams extravaganza, to make you players‘ havok potential work for you? Surprisingly, they score on half their punts.

Special Ability: Once per game, he can call one player aside for a pep-talk. For that player the true meaning of football will come through, and he will gain the strength of ten Grinches, plus two…but only for the remainder of that quarter.

Weakness: Defending the Triple Option. Sure, we all know the blueprint for defeating the TO: just play assignment football. But when your team is filled with Total Ballers, asking them to “play assignment football” is like asking an Eskimo to shear a sheep with a banana.

Vulnerability: The NFL Draft. His player development is so legendary that the NFL grants everyone on his team an eligibility waiver, allowing them to be drafted as early as their freshman year.

The Gameday Wizard (1-1-10)
This coach is the ultimate competitor, and a mastermind of the Xs and Os of football. He has also mastered every strategy known to mankind. Sun-Tzu? An amateur. Frederick the Great? A hack. Mister Spock? Can beat him at 3D chess in three moves. Usually makes his halftime adjustments on the fly, during the coin-toss.

Favorite strategy: Scoring on the first play from scrimmage, based on a weakness he observed during the other team’s warmups.

Special Ability: Once per game, he can trick the other team into calling a timeout, rather than using one of his own.

Weakness: Practice. The players at his disposal are exclusively 2-star, and are not likely to get better no matter how many reps they get. The Game Wizard would win every game by 5 or more touchdowns, if only he could get his #*$@%! players to execute, dammit!

Vulnerability: Ironically, tic-tac-toe.


Okay, with those archetypes set, how would YOU distribute the attribute points for YOUR preferred (starting-level) HC? I’m guessing bobongo would go heavy on Recruiting—he sees it as paramount, after all. Would he choose to go all the way to the Recruitinator archetype? Probably not—but I’d be interested to hear how he’d split his 12 points…

Me? I’d probably go 3-5-4. I want to see a rough balance in all areas, but I’m willing to sacrifice some recruiting skill in favor of player development and game day coaching. Recruiting talent is really important, but I figure that having a reputation for developing players—and having game-day coaching that elevates your W/L ratio—can bring in talent based on the program‘s reputation, regardless of the coach’s ability to directly woo recruits.

At least, that’s the way I see it. How would you distribute your 12 attribute points, to create your ideal Level-1 P5 head coach?
I like the thought experiment and I too would be interested to see what fans think about the kind of coach that could succeed here.

My first thought about your scale is that--and I am not trying to be a cop-out here--I honestly think a 12-point total coach is not going to be enough to succeed at GT. Give me 15 and I might be able to come up with a good coach, but it might just take 20.

Regardless, I will play along. With your 12 point limit, I would probably go 2-6-4 or 2-5-5. Even with poor recruiting, the abundance of talent in Georgia HS football should lead to decent results if we have good development and game-day coaching. Give me 15, and I would probably shoot for 3-7-5. Give me 20, and we can have a 5-9-6 coach.
 

awbuzz

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GTpdm had some serious time earlier...

SecretAgentBuzz and I agree given the parameters.
2-6-4
Players get developed and a semi decent game day at least gets you to a bowl game each year.

Then as we get better we are to get a 15-18 point coach because all the fans that were holding back $ support put their money were there mouth was and pony up the cash we need to compete in the playoffs. (Okay, maybe a fantasy stretch, but...)
 

CEB

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Geees! This thread has a lot of rules!

I’m sure I’ll break them

I say development has to at least be a 5... so does game day but that leaves crootin at only 2...

I’ll say 2.5-5.0-4.5. ;)

If I must.... 2-5-5
 

85Escape

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I was going to say that this whole game would be a lot more interesting if we where min-maxing our coach design over a bottle of bourbon!

I've got to say 3-4-5.

Recruiting - 3: This rating should get a bunch of hungry punchers with a few special players. We've seen what a great game day coach can do when he lands that special year. I think it takes a "3" to get those bumper years of 4* once a decade.

Development - 4: With the raw talent of the unappreciated 3* you get from a "3" Recruiting attribute, you'll be able to turn a few of them into NFL linemen despite their atypical size.

Gameday - 5: Since we know that our low level coach can't get good hirelings yet, we'll need someone who is seriously savvy with the clipboard. Besides, it's 'on brand' for us to out-smart'm! :)

In summary, be about average in recruiting and land a bumper-crop year from time to time. Develop some 3* talent into legit 4* ability to add to the handful of impact players. Then make the other coaches hate to coach against you because they know that you'll make the look stoopid.
 

inGTwetrust

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1-7-4 for me at a school like Tech. A UGA type program I’m probably looking more 3-3-6.

Recruiting [1]: To me, the school/resources + winning really drives the level in which your recruit. An elite recruiter will improve it incrementally, but the difference is narrow enough in my mind that I don’t care about having a coach where this is their best trait.

Development [7]: Finding the right players for your system and developing them will pay dividends way more than a top recruiter will at GT. This is the most important piece in establishing a winning team, early on.

Gameday [4]: I thought about using a 5 here, but well disciplined talent wins. Plus - I think this is the area where coaches can more easily develop with experience.

Honestly, this makeup feels like a young Dave Clawson build. Which I’m signing up for, yesterday, if possible.
 
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4shotB

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5-4-2. Get the Calvin Johnsons, Trevor Lawrences, Jamir Gibbs, Bryan Brysee, type of players who show up ready to play. Coach them to get better in your systems and get them in a college S & C program. Do that well enough you lessen the need for strategery. Auburn and Texas (was it malzahn and Mack Brown) showed what having just one or two superstars will do for you - it will get you a natty trophy. Look at Dabo - great coach who was much, much better when he had TL and Etienne on his squad. His staff didn't forget the X's and O's last year. IMO, we overrate the technical stuff (maybe bc of our training). That stuff IS critically important when all other variables are constant and determines the winner and loser quite often on a particular Saturday amongst equal teams. But the work you and your staff do the other 364 days of the year outweigh the in game chess match stuff.

If you are so inclined to tell me that this won't work at Tech bc of calculus or whatever, bear in mind that I just answered the question asked in the OP. Great question btw.
 

85Escape

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If you are so inclined to tell me that this won't work at Tech bc of calculus or whatever, bear in mind that I just answered the question asked in the OP. Great question btw.
I don't think it will work, but not because of calculus. Despite being in downtown ATL, I don't think it will work at Tech until we establish ourselves as a legitimate route for those 5* to achieve their dreams. We aren't and we have a few years, at least, to get back there.

Just because small craft breweries would love to operate with scale and market power, doesn't mean they would be successful trying to mimic In-Bev. That's a recipe for disaster. Sure, dream big and try to gain the scale if that's your goal; but don't adopt In-Bev's strategies until you've got the resources to make it successful.

For now, we'd better hire a coach that can get us there rather than the one we want when we get there.
 

4shotB

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I don't think it will work, but not because of calculus. Despite being in downtown ATL, I don't think it will work at Tech until we establish ourselves as a legitimate route for those 5* to achieve their dreams. We aren't and we have a few years, at least, to get back there.

Just because small craft breweries would love to operate with scale and market power, doesn't mean they would be successful trying to mimic In-Bev. That's a recipe for disaster. Sure, dream big and try to gain the scale if that's your goal; but don't adopt In-Bev's strategies until you've got the resources to make it successful.

For now, we'd better hire a coach that can get us there rather than the one we want when we get there.
Great points but I apparently didn't make myself very clear. I didn't understand the question asked in the post to be specific to Tech or our current situation. (I am not sure I would change my answer though.)
 

inGTwetrust

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Another question … how do we think CGC would rate on the scale? Assuming he has the same 12 points to allocate.

8-2-2?
 

85Escape

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Another question … how do we think CGC would rate on the scale? Assuming he has the same 12 points to allocate.

8-2-2?
I'm thinking he's "Level 0" at this point, so he should get only 10 points! :)

But if I have to give him 12 points I think I'd have to go with 7 - 4 - 1. I really cannot imagine a legit college coach showing any worse ability to manage a game than Collins. He can't even get the basics right. Gosh, that seems way too high. Maybe he spent some of his points on Fashion Sense? :ROFLMAO:
 

stinger 1957

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Someone pointed out to me that it is not so much about recruiting now that there is NIL. Think they are right, need good evaluators and deal makers as well as all the good qualities that make for good coaching. I disagree with many on here, I think GT is a gold mine undiscovered, untapped, it has to be looked at differently, done differently- done on a National scale because of academics- the one ingredient that I think would help that they do not have is being in the BIG playing National programs coast to coast. We need to get out of our small box thinking, think entirely different. ATL is an NIL gold mine waiting to be tapped IMO, I think it may be the biggest reason Riley left OU and went to LA. All IMO of course and I've been wrong before.
 

bobongo

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Someone pointed out to me that it is not so much about recruiting now that there is NIL. Think they are right, need good evaluators and deal makers as well as all the good qualities that make for good coaching. I disagree with many on here, I think GT is a gold mine undiscovered, untapped, it has to be looked at differently, done differently- done on a National scale because of academics- the one ingredient that I think would help that they do not have is being in the BIG playing National programs coast to coast. We need to get out of our small box thinking, think entirely different. ATL is an NIL gold mine waiting to be tapped IMO, I think it may be the biggest reason Riley left OU and went to LA. All IMO of course and I've been wrong before.
You're absolutely right, it's a different ballgame with the NIL and there's one coach out there uniquely positioned to make hay with the NIL like none other.
 

4shotB

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Someone pointed out to me that it is not so much about recruiting now that there is NIL. T

Great post. WTBS, while there is no doubt that NIL is new, I think it falls clearly under the label or heading of recruiting thse days. as opposed to being a separate category. You have to win at the NIL game to be an effective recruiter in 2022 and beyond. But I think the skillset for recruiting is selling, so that person should be able to sell not only to kids but to potential NIL sponsors as well.
 

GTpdm

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Great points but I apparently didn't make myself very clear. I didn't understand the question asked in the post to be specific to Tech or our current situation. (I am not sure I would change my answer though.)
Oops! I should have been clearer. I was approaching this with the idea of creating the Level-1 coach that you would like to see take the helm for Tech as it is now. I based the Level and Attribute restrictions on the premise that we are not going to be attractive to a higher-level coach with more Attribute points.

One of the reasons I went with 5 for Development is that I fear right now we have a reputation of stagnating the talent we have on hand. With the portal being what it is, having a bad reputation for Development will lose you the talent you might gain through your Recruiting attribute. The more I think about it, in fact, the more I’m inclined to go with a 2-6-4 rather than a 3-5-4 as my starting coach. I’d probably also put the first experience point (when he levels up) into Development, as well—I see it as a force multiplier for the other two Attributes.
 

GT33

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Our main problem is we perceive we've got a good recruiter, but a good recruiter looks more like Chan than Ge0ff. Chan looked at a kid that few if anyone else wanted & saw the NFL player, had a nose for the diamond in the rough. Chan's entire liability as a college football coach was QB & his NFL coach type personality. Last 4 coaches, 3 have been good at this & this one's a dud. We're trying to recruit the top talent in numbers, a poor plan for GT. We need a bunch of diamonds in the rough, the right diamons in the rough. Ge0ff has 1 hit & he couldn't hold onto him. He runs after the shiny object everyone is is running after & maybe even after they've run away from it realizing it was cubic zirconium & not diamond.The rest seem to be reaches or we're really bad at the next 2 items.

Chan's staff developed players.They did a good job for the most part. Last 2 coaches are/were lacking, previous 2 good jobs. Johnson's guys might have been too far away from NFL talent. You could argue he developed what he had expertly.

Game day. 2 of last 4 coaches are horrendous. Chan too conservative, Ge0ff out of his league. Johnson was a master as was Fridge, O'Leary gets the credit here but the guy who executed was Fridge and it's clear as day. O'Laeary was allegedly a defensive guru & his D's were the only reason we didn't do better.

We probably have a 4-4-4 situation. All legs of the stool at GT need to function otherwise we tank.
 
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