HC Candidate/Rumors/Info Thread

[ibeattetris]

The fact that Collins was fired 4 games into his 4th year kind of goes against your main point that he was given a long leash.

Because everyone expected this year we would look competent, and we did not. He gambled on portal targets vs trying to develop players to be ready by 2022. We didn’t need a “win ‘21” campaign and the other gimmicks. Most fans just wanted to see year by year progression, and 4 games into 2022 did not exhibit that.

 

[lv20gt]

Because everyone expected this year we would look competent, and we did not. He gambled on portal targets vs trying to develop players to be ready by 2022. We didn’t need a “win ‘21” campaign and the other gimmicks. Most fans just wanted to see year by year progression, and 4 games into 2022 did not exhibit that.

The bold is just a false dichotomy that didn't happen. We took 6 OLmen in 2020 his first full class. We took 5 OL transfers his first three years. The transfers didn't come at a cost of an opportunity to develop young talent. Key just did a horrible job with that. The transfers were there to patch the issues with low OL numbers for a variety of reasons and to give time for young guys to develop, but Key did a bad job developing them. That isn't because Collins overloaded on OL transfers, which didn't happen. Key just did a terrible job.

 

[Techster]

Collins and Bowden were nowhere near the same situations.

Yeah, that's not the reply you think it is.

Tommy Bowden, before he was fired in 2008, qualified for 9 straight bowl games (Clemson declined a bowl game in 2004). The previous season before he was fired, Clemson won 9 games. Bowden also had recruiting classes regularly in the top 15-20.

Clemson was 3-3 when Bowden was fired in 2008. Dabo finished the season at 4-3 (3-2 in the ACC), with a loss in the Gator Bowl. His roster was littered with guys that would later propel him to what the Clemson program is now.

Under my scenario, Key would have gone 6-2 (6-1 in the ACC). He would have done it with far less resources than Dabo, worse talent than Dabo, and a coaching staff he had to coach up along with the players. By any measure, that's a sign of a promising coach that can probably do well in a HCF capacity. So what can Key do with a staff he hand picks, more resources (as promised by Batt and Cabrera), and "his" recruits. As some fonts have mentioned, Key wasn't even allowed to call his own shots for players he had to coach. The fact that our defense has done so well WITHOUT a coach who got hired based on his Defensive Coordinator credentials tells you what the real issue was.

AGAIN, that's not saying Key would have deserved to have the job regardless of the candidates willing to take the GT job, it's a point to say you don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

 

[ibeattetris]

We took 6 OLmen in 2020 his first full class. We took 5 OL transfers his first three years. The transfers didn't come at a cost of an opportunity to develop young talent.

We took 2 in 2021 and you can't say that taking 5 transfers wasn't part of the reason why we only took 2 the following year.

I realize 2019 was not fully on him, but I find it hard to believe he was unable to find 1 or 2 OL willing to jump to us given is supposed recruiting prowess. I don't hold 2019 against him, but I do think he could have done better.

 

[AugustaSwarm]

The bold is just a false dichotomy that didn't happen. We took 6 OLmen in 2020 his first full class. We took 5 OL transfers his first three years. The transfers didn't come at a cost of an opportunity to develop young talent. Key just did a horrible job with that. The transfers were there to patch the issues with low OL numbers for a variety of reasons and to give time for young guys to develop, but Key did a bad job developing them. That isn't because Collins overloaded on OL transfers, which didn't happen. Key just did a terrible job.

None of this matters. Even if Geoff came on here and explained exactly what he was thinking, it still doesn't matter. The fact of the matter is that the O-line sucks still - they're not even decent. No matter how you want to look at it, the O line has been and continues to be a disaster. The reasons behind it really don't matter at this point, because we're looking for the guy who will be paid a lot to fix it.

 

[lv20gt]

We took 2 in 2021 and you can't say that taking 5 transfers wasn't part of the reason why we only took 2 the following year.

And just taking 2 in 2021 isn't why our OL is terrible now. That group would have been redshirt freshmen this year. Transfers didn't stop Key from having an opportunity to develop young OLmen. He just did a terrible job at it.

None of this matters. Even if Geoff came on here and explained exactly what he was thinking, it still doesn't matter. The fact of the matter is that the O-line sucks still - they're not even decent. No matter how you want to look at it, the O line has been and continues to be a disaster.

Nobody is denying that. Our OL is terrible because our development sucked. Not because transfers prevented Key from having an opportunity to develop young OLmen.

 

[Wrecked]

This has really amazed me regarding anyone's interest in Key getting the nod. I would think he would not be considered as he has no prior coaching experience. If I was the AD, it would not make any difference if he had won the two games lost, plus the rest of the schedule including UGA.

What if the talent was already there, but they did not want to win as long as Collins was the coach. Key may be a very honest person and would do no wrong, but what if he was not honest and wanted a chance as the Head Coach, would he have also helped to get rid of Collins. These scenarios could happen, and a new AD would be foolish to choose that person as the new HC.

Now, assume the team is playing better because they really want to win and keep Key as the coach because they like him. Would this be a reason to select him as the HC? No, a smart AD would not even consider such a move; besides Key has no other coaching experience. A smart AD should not consider anyone on the previous staff.

Guess we never should have hired O'Leary

 

[gtie73]

Guess we never should have hired O'Leary

Is this our version of the conspiracy sites I’ve been reading about.

 

[scotts]

I don’t understand the need to hire someone who is a former/current head coach. UGA hired Kirby Smart and he had no head coaching experience. He has done ok for them. Let’s find the best guy out there.

 

[DuckGT]

If Garrett Riley is our choice and TCU makes the playoffs does he stay on until their season is over?

 

[Gtech50]

I don’t understand the need to hire someone who is a former/current head coach. UGA hired Kirby Smart and he had no head coaching experience. He has done ok for them. Let’s find the best guy out there.

Kirby stepped into a much better situation than we are in. Not saying we necessarily have to hire a former HC but imo it would benefit us greatly to hire someone with experience that has rebuilt a program and has shown he can do more with less.

 

[leatherneckjacket]

Kirby stepped into a much better situation than we are in. Not saying we necessarily have to hire a former HC but imo it would benefit us greatly to hire someone with experience that has rebuilt a program and has shown he can do more with less.

ugag recruits itself. It also helps that Kirby learned how to hire bag men under Saban.

 

[lv20gt]

Yeah, that's not the reply you think it is.

Tommy Bowden, before he was fired in 2008, qualified for 9 straight bowl games (Clemson declined a bowl game in 2004). The previous season before he was fired, Clemson won 9 games. Bowden also had recruiting classes regularly in the top 15-20.

Clemson was 3-3 when Bowden was fired in 2008. Dabo finished the season at 4-3 (3-2 in the ACC), with a loss in the Gator Bowl. His roster was littered with guys that would later propel him to what the Clemson program is now.

Under my scenario, Key would have gone 6-2 (6-1 in the ACC). He would have done it with far less resources than Dabo, worse talent than Dabo, and a coaching staff he had to coach up along with the players. By any measure, that's a sign of a promising coach that can probably do well in a HCF capacity. So what can Key do with a staff he hand picks, more resources (as promised by Batt and Cabrera), and "his" recruits. As some fonts have mentioned, Key wasn't even allowed to call his own shots for players he had to coach. The fact that our defense has done so well WITHOUT a coach who got hired based on his Defensive Coordinator credentials tells you what the real issue was.

AGAIN, that's not saying Key would have deserved to have the job regardless of the candidates willing to take the GT job, it's a point to say you don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Bowden wasn't fired in 2008. He was told he wasn't going to be retained at the end of the year and chose to step down early instead. That's the first difference, and a major one comparing to getting the AD fired mid year as well.

The second difference is, as you pointed out, Clemson wasn't horrible under Bowden. They likely weren't going to get where they wanted to go, but there was enough success to believe that the entire staff wasn't a problem and that a change in leadership would slightly change the course from being an 8-9 team to a 10-11 win team. That's why it made more sense to promote from within because they weren't promoting from a horrible staff. They also promoted a WR coach who had success coaching WRs who was also a very highly thought of recruiter as well. Key was the position coach of probably the worst group we've had over the past 4 years.

I know people like to pretend that Key was locked in a basement the last 3 years by Collins and had nothing to do with how horrible we've been the past 4 years but it's absurd. People on this site also just flat out make crap up. We've looked every bit as bad the past three weeks coming out of the bye week as we did the past 3 years and anyone who view the VT game as a feather in Key's cap is kidding themselves. Collins wasn't the only problem like people want to believe. The rest of the staff is also to blame including Key, probably more so than most. Key isn't the baby in the bathwater. There is no baby, and key is a big reason the bowl is dirty.

 

[Oldgoldandwhite]

Ya, I just looked it up. I’m happy for him as he did seem like a good coach… and I think his offense is interesting.

He was my pick, but I knew he was out of the picture.

 

[Oldgoldandwhite]

I’ll say this, this is not Brent Key’s offensive line. He did not want this group of guys on the line.

Tell us more.

 

[stech81]

Bowden wasn't fired in 2008. He was told he wasn't going to be retained at the end of the year and chose to step down early instead. That's the first difference, and a major one comparing to getting the AD fired mid year as well.

The second difference is, as you pointed out, Clemson wasn't horrible under Bowden. They likely weren't going to get where they wanted to go, but there was enough success to believe that the entire staff wasn't a problem and that a change in leadership would slightly change the course from being an 8-9 team to a 10-11 win team. That's why it made more sense to promote from within because they weren't promoting from a horrible staff. They also promoted a WR coach who had success coaching WRs who was also a very highly thought of recruiter as well. Key was the position coach of probably the worst group we've had over the past 4 years.

I know people like to pretend that Key was locked in a basement the last 3 years by Collins and had nothing to do with how horrible we've been the past 4 years but it's absurd. People on this site also just flat out make crap up. We've looked every bit as bad the past three weeks coming out of the bye week as we did the past 3 years and anyone who view the VT game as a feather in Key's cap is kidding themselves. Collins wasn't the only problem like people want to believe. The rest of the staff is also to blame including Key, probably more so than most. Key isn't the baby in the bathwater. There is no baby, and key is a big reason the bowl is dirty.

I think you made you point you HATE Key. But unless you were at practice not sure you really know any more than the rest of us. You need to understand you can lead a horse to the water, but you can't make it drink. You may can make it wish it did unless the man in charge won't let you.
Who would I pick, I really don't know but it doesn't matter because I'll have no say so in the matter.

 

[slugboy]

Bowden wasn't fired in 2008. He was told he wasn't going to be retained at the end of the year and chose to step down early instead. That's the first difference, and a major one comparing to getting the AD fired mid year as well.

The second difference is, as you pointed out, Clemson wasn't horrible under Bowden. They likely weren't going to get where they wanted to go, but there was enough success to believe that the entire staff wasn't a problem and that a change in leadership would slightly change the course from being an 8-9 team to a 10-11 win team. That's why it made more sense to promote from within because they weren't promoting from a horrible staff. They also promoted a WR coach who had success coaching WRs who was also a very highly thought of recruiter as well. Key was the position coach of probably the worst group we've had over the past 4 years.

I know people like to pretend that Key was locked in a basement the last 3 years by Collins and had nothing to do with how horrible we've been the past 4 years but it's absurd. People on this site also just flat out make crap up. We've looked every bit as bad the past three weeks coming out of the bye week as we did the past 3 years and anyone who view the VT game as a feather in Key's cap is kidding themselves. Collins wasn't the only problem like people want to believe. The rest of the staff is also to blame including Key, probably more so than most. Key isn't the baby in the bathwater. There is no baby, and key is a big reason the bowl is dirty.

Bowden was told mid-season “beat Georgia Tech or you’re fired.” He resigned in the middle of the season.
How often does that happen?
Edit: wait…why the heck are we debating Tommy Bowden in this thread?

It’s really hard to figure out who was a good coach that couldn’t overcome Collins and who is part of the reason we’re where we are now. It’s probably a subject for a different thread.

For this year, with Key coaching, we’ve exceeded expectations against VT, Pitt, and Duke, with Pitt being far ahead of expectations. We performed well below expectations against UVA and FSU. He’s done some things well, but he hasn’t been able to fix some glaring problems like our blocking and punt team. I would expect some improvement during the season, but it’s not clear cut to me that we’re having more improvement beyond Collins being out of the way.

 

[UgaBlows]

If he reminds you of Ralph Friedgen, then we need to hire him. I originally started posting on the Hive; I was thrown off the hive because of my ditty "He ain't my brother, he is just heavy". I made it clear with statistics that GOL was not the catalyst for Tech's winning ways, it was purely the addition of Ralph Friedgen as OC.

Ralph's OC record at Tech for his tenure was 34-14. Without those four years, O'Leary's record was 25-25. O'Leary claimed to be a defensive expert, but his record at Tech proved he was not a good coach watching his defense. Notice the defensive record for his tenure from 1997 to 2000, it was 1994 (33-88) (0-3 record), 1995 (233-243), 1996 (220-236), 1997 (314-296), 1998 (426-295), 1999 (461-361), 2000 (386-237).

The ditty was that O'Leary was not Friedgen's brother, he was just heavy to overcome the defense. Note the difference in the offensive yardage in years 1997-2000 during
friedgen years; the defensive yardage against Tech still remained high, but Friedgen's offense overcame it. It was also evident of Tech's record of wins and losses during the Friedgen years as opposed to his years without Friedgen.

The point here is don't scoff at a coach's ability to win with offense. Sure, a team needs good defense; defense wins games and always has, but today's teams must have a good passing game to go with the running game. My observation of Tech's defense is that it is too consumed with trying to dislodge the ball from the runner and very often lets the runner get away from then for long gains.

And look at how good the Fridge did at Maryland without O’leary, we definitely let the wrong one get away!

 

[Deleted member 6494]

Guess we never should have hired O'Leary

Not necessarily, he brought a toughness to the team although he was a mediocre coach. He did bring Ralph Friedgen into the picture which was a great hire. He also did very well at UCF. My stance was that the 4 years of his big success was because of Friedgen.

 

[Deleted member 6494]

Guess Clemson should have fired Dabo...

Valid point