#GTvsMIA Postgame

[RonJohn]

Regardless of whether it was intentional or not intentional, the language of the rule is VERY intentional. Multiple times it references "feet first slide," which this clearly is not. His feet never get in front of his body, even when he slides. He's sliding on his left side, not feet-first like a baseball slide where he's leaning backward. Someone needs to X at this guy that he needs to read and understand the rules before looking so foolish.

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Do you think facts actually matter to him? I don't think he cares what the actual rule is, only that he can argue that there is a rule, so Miami should have won. Getting into the actual rule and applying it is too much work, and it might not fit into his agenda.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Do you think facts actually matter to him? I don't think he cares what the actual rule is, only that he can argue that there is a rule, so Miami should have won. Getting into the actual rule and applying it is too much work, and it might not fit into his agenda.

No, but it's always enjoyable to debunk stupid thoughts and the spoutings of idiots. I gave anyone with an X account a still image to refute his claim. That way, anyone who follows him or finds his X (fka tweet) will see he's full of ****.

 

[YJMD]

Regardless of whether it was intentional or not intentional, the language of the rule is VERY intentional. Multiple times it references "feet first slide," which this clearly is not. His feet never get in front of his body, even when he slides. He's sliding on his left side, not feet-first like a baseball slide where he's leaning backward.

The rule doesn't spell it out explicitly but it's pretty clearly referring to specific situations where someone is giving themselves up to avoid getting hit (and also the Kenny Pickett fake slide). The words "obviously begins a feet-first slide" do not apply to what Leary did, thus a good call regardless of where he begins to stumble and ends in a slide. There was no one in front of him to try and make a tackle in the first place.

 

[slugboy]

There are also what-if’s that put us up by 10 in the last two minutes. You don’t get to pick your what-if’s.

I can what-if us to at least 5-1 this season

 

[CEB]

From the NCAA football rule book (2023 edition)

In the photo posted above, his feet are not leading his body, so it is not a "feet-first" slide. If you dive and slide forward, it is marked where you hit the ground. The memo posted above says that the intent of the rule is to give the runner an opportunity to avoid contact, but to place the ball where he initiates the FEET-FIRST slide. Miami fans are going crazy in an attempt to not blame their coach who made a decision that middle school coaches don't make, and lost the game because of it.

I have not heard an official explanation of what the review was about, but I suspect they were looking at the position of the ball when his knee hit the ground. In the photo above his knee is on the way down about a half yard behind the goal line. The ball is about another half yard behind his knee. I highly suspect they were looking for an angle that showed whether the ball had crossed the goal line before his knee or chin hit the ground. It looks much much closer in that photo than where I thought it would have been watching it live.

Thanks for the actual rule. There is no mention of “avoiding contact,” which I honestly think is a critical piece. It was cited in the memo they published about the rule change but not actually in the rule… interesting.
“Fakes or simulates..” is also tough language to explain away in the context of what transpired here, and ultimately, he ended up feet first. Not sure the rule book is our friend and I’m glad the interpretation was kind!!

I still say what he did would afford him protection under the rule if a defender were in the area (thus avoiding contact and therefore a slide), so by the rule, an official would be justified in saying he initiated a slide. All of these are up to interpretation however and making the call in that scenario would have been the most ridiculous ruling I could imagine.

As for the review, they almost certainly confirmed he crossed the goal line and we KNOW they reviewed the time because the clock was reset to 2 seconds. Beyond that, who knows. Just glad it went our way!

 

[RonJohn]

Thanks for the actual rule. There is no mention of “avoiding contact,” which I honestly think is a critical piece. It was cited in the memo they published about the rule change but not actually in the rule… interesting.
“Fakes or simulates..” is also tough language to explain away in the context of what transpired here, and ultimately, he ended up feet first. Not sure the rule book is our friend and I’m glad the interpretation was kind!!

I still say what he did would afford him protection under the rule if a defender were in the area (thus avoiding contact and therefore a slide), so by the rule, an official would be justified in saying he initiated a slide. All of these are up to interpretation however and making the call in that scenario would have been the most ridiculous ruling I could imagine.

As for the review, they almost certainly confirmed he crossed the goal line and we KNOW they reviewed the time because the clock was reset to 2 seconds. Beyond that, who knows. Just glad it went our way!

Look at the picture that @forensicbuzz posted. In that picture he is on the ground, and his feet are behind him. In the picture that the Miami fan posted, he is falling to the ground and his feet are clearly behind him. I don't understand how anyone can conclude that he started a slide in a get first position.

 

[CEB]

Look at the picture that @forensicbuzz posted. In that picture he is on the ground, and his feet are behind him. In the picture that the Miami fan posted, he is falling to the ground and his feet are clearly behind him. I don't understand how anyone can conclude that he started a slide in a get first position.

I can agree with this… but the rule uses words like “fakes, simulates and initiates.” If this exact movement is made at the 20 yard line and a defender makes contact, it’s a flag 100% of the time.
It would be beyond ridiculous to rule that he gave himself up with a slide in this scenario, but the rule as written, without the context of game scenario allows for it. That is more my point. The memo about the rule talks about avoiding contact / injury but the rule itself does not (unless there is more to the rule than what is posted).

r. When a ball carrier obviously begins a feet-first slide. Any time a ball carrier simulates or fakes a feet-first slide, the ball should be declared dead by the on-field officials at that point. (A.R. 4-1-3-III and IV)

I guess it could be argued that he didn’t “fake or simulate” since there was no defender in a position to be faked out?

 

[YJMD]

I can agree with this… but the rule uses words like “fakes, simulates and initiates.” If this exact movement is made at the 20 yard line and a defender makes contact, it’s a flag 100% of the time.
It would be beyond ridiculous to rule that he gave himself up with a slide in this scenario, but the rule as written, without the context of game scenario allows for it. That is more my point. The memo about the rule talks about avoiding contact / injury but the rule itself does not (unless there is more to the rule than what is posted).

r. When a ball carrier obviously begins a feet-first slide. Any time a ball carrier simulates or fakes a feet-first slide, the ball should be declared dead by the on-field officials at that point. (A.R. 4-1-3-III and IV)

I guess it could be argued that he didn’t “fake or simulate” since there was no defender in a position to be faked out?

He didn't fake anything. That is obviously referring to the Kenny Pickett move. You can't fake a slide in order to gain more yardage. If you try you're down where you faked it.

 

[cpf2001]

I’ve seen the clip of our final drive a few times, but the last time I watched it, I paused the second pass (completion to Rutherford) to see how close it was to being tipped by the defending DB. It was very close but the video was too blurry to see detail of the ball’s flight. Anyway, when I did this I realized I could slo-mo the video forward or back and see the entire play unfold. I then realized that this play was as much of a miracle, if not more, than the touchdown to Leary.

We had five linemen plus our RB blocking four rushers for Miami. The outside rushers get pushed past the pocket and Haynes steps up, just as you would want. But the other two rushers almost get home. One takes a swipe at Haynes’ arm just as he is releasing the throw. It must have missed by a hair. It appears that Haynes gets the pass off while a little off-balance when stepping a bit to his left to avoid the rusher. Incredible throw under pressure.

Even more craziness is that the two Miami rushers in the middle do some sort of twist or stunt and confuse our linemen a bit. #65 keeps his man in front but eventually gets stood up and pushed back toward Haynes. #67 blocks air for a while then blocks our own #72 (!) who had turned completely around after having lost contact with his rusher when the rusher changed direction. #67 may have been attempting to stop #72 from pushing anyone toward Haynes – it's hard to know, but it looks almost comical. Meanwhile, the rusher that moved away from #72 has circled around and tries to get to Haynes from the other side. Only our RB stands in his way – who makes a feeble attempt to block (maybe intended to just chip him) but appears to whiff completely then runs out a few yards to his check-down position.

All this is a long-winded way to say that it was a miracle Haynes got the pass off at all.

Every time I look at this play I think the defender on Rutherford could’ve broken up the catch if he let the ball come to him instead of breaking towards it while it was too high…

 

[RonJohn]

I can agree with this… but the rule uses words like “fakes, simulates and initiates.” If this exact movement is made at the 20 yard line and a defender makes contact, it’s a flag 100% of the time.
It would be beyond ridiculous to rule that he gave himself up with a slide in this scenario, but the rule as written, without the context of game scenario allows for it. That is more my point. The memo about the rule talks about avoiding contact / injury but the rule itself does not (unless there is more to the rule than what is posted).

r. When a ball carrier obviously begins a feet-first slide. Any time a ball carrier simulates or fakes a feet-first slide, the ball should be declared dead by the on-field officials at that point. (A.R. 4-1-3-III and IV)

I guess it could be argued that he didn’t “fake or simulate” since there was no defender in a position to be faked out?

The rule is that the ball carrier is down when he begins a FEET-FIRST slide. The fake and simulate was added after the Kenny Picket faked a slide to gain more yards, so that the runner doesn't have to actually slide FEET-FIRST, he only has to look like he is intending to slide FEET-FIRST.

I don't understand what the point you are trying to make is. There are several pictures that show that in this case, the receiver was not sliding FEET-FIRST. The sliding, faking, simulating, etc does not apply to him because he was not slideing FEET-FIRST, which is a requirement of the rule. I think he stumbled, but it doesn't matter if he stumbled, fell, slid or whatever, because his body was still ahead of his feet. You are wrong that if a runner is falling forward that there will be a penalty flag. There have been several cases this year in which Haynes King actually did slide FEET-FIRST, was still hit, and there was no flag thrown. I think in those instances, the refs believed that the defenders did pull up and that some contact was inevitable when King started sliding. There is no situation in which a flag would be thrown if a runner is still ahead of his feet, and thus potentially gaining yards and is hit. (excepting hits that are already penalties such as targeting)

 

[roadkill]

I can agree with this… but the rule uses words like “fakes, simulates and initiates.” If this exact movement is made at the 20 yard line and a defender makes contact, it’s a flag 100% of the time.
It would be beyond ridiculous to rule that he gave himself up with a slide in this scenario, but the rule as written, without the context of game scenario allows for it. That is more my point. The memo about the rule talks about avoiding contact / injury but the rule itself does not (unless there is more to the rule than what is posted).

r. When a ball carrier obviously begins a feet-first slide. Any time a ball carrier simulates or fakes a feet-first slide, the ball should be declared dead by the on-field officials at that point. (A.R. 4-1-3-III and IV)

I guess it could be argued that he didn’t “fake or simulate” since there was no defender in a position to be faked out?

You can watch the video frame-by-frame and see that his "feet" (plural) were never "first". His body posture was such that his torso was upright until he was well into the end zone. So he did not meet the criteria for either a real or fake slide.

I believe the review was to check to make sure that his knee didn't contact the ground until the ball had crossed the plane. It was close.

The biggest takeaway, as @Techster has pointed out, is that our players should be coached to never try any shenanigans when crossing the goal line. That said, I'm not convinced it was deliberate.

 

[CEB]

The rule is that the ball carrier is down when he begins a FEET-FIRST slide. The fake and simulate was added after the Kenny Picket faked a slide to gain more yards, so that the runner doesn't have to actually slide FEET-FIRST, he only has to look like he is intending to slide FEET-FIRST.

I don't understand what the point you are trying to make is. There are several pictures that show that in this case, the receiver was not sliding FEET-FIRST. The sliding, faking, simulating, etc does not apply to him because he was not slideing FEET-FIRST, which is a requirement of the rule. I think he stumbled, but it doesn't matter if he stumbled, fell, slid or whatever, because his body was still ahead of his feet. You are wrong that if a runner is falling forward that there will be a penalty flag. There have been several cases this year in which Haynes King actually did slide FEET-FIRST, was still hit, and there was no flag thrown. I think in those instances, the refs believed that the defenders did pull up and that some contact was inevitable when King started sliding. There is no situation in which a flag would be thrown if a runner is still ahead of his feet, and thus potentially gaining yards and is hit. (excepting hits that are already penalties such as targeting)

The points I am making are two-fold:
1. I’m surprised there is no mention of avoiding contact in the rule…
2. Kenny Pickett didn’t do anything feet first and there was a rule rewritten (poorly in my opinion) to insure that a slide could be ruled when a slide never took place, even independent of impending contact by a defender. Therefore the act of sliding is less about the actual act of sliding than it is the interpretation of the official.
2(b). NEVER leave anything up to the interpretation of the official.

 

[RonJohn]

The points I am making are two-fold:
1. I’m surprised there is no mention of avoiding contact in the rule…
2. Kenny Pickett didn’t do anything feet first and there was a rule rewritten (poorly in my opinion) to insure that a slide could be ruled when a slide never took place, even independent of impending contact by a defender. Therefore the act of sliding is less about the actual act of sliding than it is the interpretation of the official.
2(b). NEVER leave anything up to the interpretation of the official.

2(b) I agree with.

1. I have seen situations in which a QB slides before there is any contact pending. Don't remember who or which games, but I have seen QBs in the 2 minute drill make a first down and slide quickly to avoid running too much clock.
2. Kenny Pickett did convince the defender that he was about to give himself up and make a feet-first slide. Leary did not fake out anyone. He did not simulate a slide, he in fact slid. The slide was not feet-first. He didn't fake anyone. He didn't simulate anything. He did not perform a feet-first slide.

I think he simply fell down instead of attempting some kind of theatrics. Regardless, he did not meet any of the requirements of that rule.

 

[awbuzz]

To me, it looked like he took it upon himself to slide across the goal line...of course, I wasn't the one carrying the ball and running towards the endzone, and I don't know what was going through his mind for intent.

My point was, if it was intentional, he doesn't need to risk it. I found from a quick search about the NCAA slide rule, which was changed after the infamous Kenny Pickett fake slide in the ACC Championship:

NCAA Announced New Fake Slide Rule After ACC Championship | FOX Sports Radio

The NCAA is now enforcing new rules against fake quarterback slides after Pittsburgh quarterback Kenny Pickett's controversial touchdown run in the ACC Championship Game last Saturday.

foxsportsradio.iheart.com

"Any time a ball carrier begins, simulates, or fakes a feet-first slide, the ball should be declared dead by the on-field officials at that point," the memo states. "The intent of the rule is player safety, and the objective is to give a ball carrier an option to end the play by sliding feet first and to avoid contact. To allow the ball carrier to fake a slide would compromise the defense that is being instructed to let up when the ball carrier slides feet first."

So had the ref viewed the slide by the rule above, Leary could have been ruled down at the spot where he began the slide...which would have been before he crossed the goal line. Obviously, it was subject to the ref's POV, so it's always better to not leave it up to interpretation.

During his interview with the ACC post game crew, he inferred that he wanted to slide and he was not tripping or off balance, which is what I thought he originally was.
Bottom line he muffed up and not let even be questionable, Slide at the back of the end zone if you want to slide!

 

[iceeater1969]

2(b) I agree with.

1. I have seen situations in which a QB slides before there is any contact pending. Don't remember who or which games, but I have seen QBs in the 2 minute drill make a first down and slide quickly to avoid running too much clock.
2. Kenny Pickett did convince the defender that he was about to give himself up and make a feet-first slide. Leary did not fake out anyone. He did not simulate a slide, he in fact slid. The slide was not feet-first. He didn't fake anyone. He didn't simulate anything. He did not perform a feet-first slide.

I think he simply fell down instead of attempting some kind of theatrics. Regardless, he did not meet any of the requirements of that rule.

In a continuation of making the catch, Leary, as he progressed into the end zone, let his legs collapse so didn't t jostle the ball.

This is a first principle of football as taught by the legendary GT COACH John Heisman.

" It is better to have died as a small boy than to have fumbled this ball. "

 

[kg01]

Kid should've just ran over the goalline as normal, remove any doubt....

 

[CEB]

2(b) I agree with.

1. I have seen situations in which a QB slides before there is any contact pending. Don't remember who or which games, but I have seen QBs in the 2 minute drill make a first down and slide quickly to avoid running too much clock.
2. Kenny Pickett did convince the defender that he was about to give himself up and make a feet-first slide. Leary did not fake out anyone. He did not simulate a slide, he in fact slid. The slide was not feet-first. He didn't fake anyone. He didn't simulate anything. He did not perform a feet-first slide.

I think he simply fell down instead of attempting some kind of theatrics. Regardless, he did not meet any of the requirements of that rule.

Fair point #1… impending contact shouldn’t be necessary for an actual slide.

We have split every possible hair getting to #2 when the bottom line is don’t give the official a reason to misinterpret or influence the outcome. I would hate for our guys (particularly in a loss) to be the reason that a silly rule like this has to be revised again

 

[BleedGoldNWhite21]

Kid should've just ran over the goalline as normal, remove any doubt....

Yes, I hope the coaches still talk to him about it. It makes me nervous watching the replay.

 

[slugboy]

Fair point #1… impending contact shouldn’t be necessary for an actual slide.

We have split every possible hair getting to #2 when the bottom line is don’t give the official a reason to misinterpret or influence the outcome. I would hate for our guys (particularly in a loss) to be the reason that a silly rule like this has to be revised again

Adding imminent contact into the rule gets the ref into both “is this a slide” and “was there imminent contact”. That’s a lot of judgement calls

 

[bobongo]

MSN

www.msn.com

There has not been a lot of mention about Georgia Tech and its ability to get down the field quickly and score on the Hurricanes.

Yellow Jackets head coach Brent Key does not want anyone to forget that.

"Another thing is, I got home and was getting ready to watch the game last night and someone on the TV last night was talking about our game and I told the team that there is this thing about talking about the decisions that were made on their sides of the ball that impacted the game and I told the team and the staff that it was you guys on the field and chose to play that down as hard as you could, you chose to play that down as hard as you could. If you listen to the noise, if you looked at the scoreboard, if you saw the timeouts that we did not have, if you saw the time on the clock, if one person on the defense plays at 90% or 95% on that last play, then we don't get the outcome that we like. We turned it around to go 75 yards in 26 seconds, to go that length of the field... If one person did not play the way that they can, if they had not played hard and played with everything that they have, if they had payed attention to what the clock said or the scoreboard said, then we would not have had that outcome. That is the way that I look at it. Our guys were the ones on the field and chose to play the way you're supposed to play. We challenged them to play 60 minutes and we had to wash a stigma off of us on this football team and we went out and did that."