GT needed a change

[jwsavhGT]

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[GTRambler]

I think a lot of folks keep forgetting that “the option” is one play, not an offensive system.

Many college football sportswriters and TV commentators make the same mistake.

 

[gtg391z]

Well, I guess my response to that above broke the rules. lol

 

[FightWinDrink]

GOL said Harvard (Mon-Fri) and Fla State (Sat)

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

But he told Notre Dame NYU-Stony Brook Mon-Fri and New Hampshire Saturday

 

[smokey_wasp]

I think a lot of folks keep forgetting that “the option” is one play, not an offensive system.

Many college football sportswriters and TV commentators make the same mistake.

People are using "option" in this context to refer to PJ's system, specifically. We realize it isn't factually correct, but it is easy short hand.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

As I have said before, I was firmly in the Monken camp. I think it was the wrong decision not to hire him and to hire CGC instead. I won't go back into the details on that because I've already done so, and it's not the time for it.

But, I want to be fair to GT, to Stansbury, and to Collins in evaluating this new era as a fan. I understand that I am not infallible in my view, so I could be wrong about the decision ... Maybe we can recruit really well (like top 10-15 eventually). Maybe we can have a great defensive scheme with Collins, Thacker, and Burton heading it up. Maybe Patenaude is a very underrated offensive mind who can be a top OC eventually once the recruiting catches up.

I know this: it would not be fair to seriously criticize this Collins era in the first year. He has to have time to develop his "culture" and to recruit players to what he's trying to do. So, even though losing to the Citadel was embarrassing (and VERY ironic), I'm not going to take cheap shots at Collins or the program right now. This Citadel loss provides such a tempting opportunity to claim that my view about Monken/Collins and the Option and the philosophy of football hype vs substance and such is the superior view, I just don't feel it fair or right to do so at this point. It's a "love your neighbor as yourself, do unto others" thing. If the shoe was on the other foot and people were criticizing Monken or my view unfairly, I would think they were wrong for doing so, so I will try to abide by a consistent standard.

I have to confess that I did feel some morbid sense of satisfaction at losing to the Triple Option the way we did, even though I was pulling for GT the whole game. I was sick over losing when we missed that last field goal and they made theirs, and yet something in me cheered the way that option was churning against us with us having the far superior players. There was just something poetic about it.

For me, it's going to be a frustrating 3 years, but I truly don't think it will be fair to make any kind of serious evaluation of Collins until we get to year 3 or 4, with his players being entrenched in his schemes. Another poster (@jacketup , I think?) astutely pointed out our struggles during G'Ol and Freidgen's first few years with Little Joe. Seems to me those on our side of this view should consciously and publicly take the high road, cheer for Collins and GT for the next 3 years for better or worse, and then either be proven right or wrong. Once that time comes, we're either enjoying the success of our being wrong or we get to proclaim our view to be the one we should all follow from that point forward. And, hopefully, we would have a fanbase that would be as unified as possible and ready to hear it. GT's success moving forward (which an above average, unified, mature fanbase would help with in the long run) should be all of our priority.

I applaud your perspective. But there is no level of bad with the new staff and no level of good from any spread option staff that will change Tech fans’ hearts and minds about the triple option. It’s gone for good here no matter what.

I fear a painful 3 years but am hoping to be pleasantly surprised now. Gotta give him three years and a mulligan for this year.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

If Monken did not learn CPJ’s lesson, he’s not as smart as I think he is.

Coaching at the academy is a special job. You’re working with the best of the best, a caliber of individuals dedicated to teamwork at its most basic level. They’re selfless, self-motivated, not selfish, disciplined personally & professionally, etc. You’re developing future leaders in large numbers, people who will go on to do things that are important. You play football & can at a high level, but it’s not a football school. The camaraderie is hard to describe. It’s really a different job & I bet if you asked CPJ he’ll tell you his worst move in his professional life was leaving the academy to preside over a fractured GT fanbase, many of which disliked him from the moment he arrived. GT wanted a Bentley on a Yugo budget, got a Corvette and bitched/was dissatified because there wasn't a spare tire in the trunk and it required maintenance.

I agree with a lot of your sentiment here but the bolded part is pure nonsense. I went to a service academy with some of the most self absorbed, egotistical, churlish people you've ever met. They are generally self motivated, but a lot of them are driven by an ambition in the military best suited with a start at the Academy of choice. I love all my classmates, but some are harder to love than others.

The last sentence is pure gold and spot on.

 

[vamosjackets]

As I have said before, I was firmly in the Monken camp. I think it was the wrong decision not to hire him and to hire CGC instead. I won't go back into the details on that because I've already done so, and it's not the time for it.

But, I want to be fair to GT, to Stansbury, and to Collins in evaluating this new era as a fan. I understand that I am not infallible in my view, so I could be wrong about the decision ... Maybe we can recruit really well (like top 10-15 eventually). Maybe we can have a great defensive scheme with Collins, Thacker, and Burton heading it up. Maybe Patenaude is a very underrated offensive mind who can be a top OC eventually once the recruiting catches up.

I know this: it would not be fair to seriously criticize this Collins era in the first year. He has to have time to develop his "culture" and to recruit players to what he's trying to do. So, even though losing to the Citadel was embarrassing (and VERY ironic), I'm not going to take cheap shots at Collins or the program right now. This Citadel loss provides such a tempting opportunity to claim that my view about Monken/Collins and the Option and the philosophy of football hype vs substance and such is the superior view, I just don't feel it fair or right to do so at this point. It's a "love your neighbor as yourself, do unto others" thing. If the shoe was on the other foot and people were criticizing Monken or my view unfairly, I would think they were wrong for doing so, so I will try to abide by a consistent standard.

I have to confess that I did feel some morbid sense of satisfaction at losing to the Triple Option the way we did, even though I was pulling for GT the whole game. I was sick over losing when we missed that last field goal and they made theirs, and yet something in me cheered the way that option was churning against us with us having the far superior players. There was just something poetic about it.

For me, it's going to be a frustrating 3 years, but I truly don't think it will be fair to make any kind of serious evaluation of Collins until we get to year 3 or 4, with his players being entrenched in his schemes. Another poster (@jacketup , I think?) astutely pointed out our struggles during G'Ol and Freidgen's first few years with Little Joe. Seems to me those on our side of this view should consciously and publicly take the high road, cheer for Collins and GT for the next 3 years for better or worse, and then either be proven right or wrong. Once that time comes, we're either enjoying the success of our being wrong or we get to proclaim our view to be the one we should all follow from that point forward. And, hopefully, we would have a fanbase that would be as unified as possible and ready to hear it. GT's success moving forward (which an above average, unified, mature fanbase would help with in the long run) should be all of our priority.

I also want to add that I don't have a big problem with anything Collins is doing. As long as he's not cheating, I'm good with him doing things the way he believes they should be done and trying some things out. Wisdom is justified by her children, so conclusions will be valid at some point though delayed. I honestly am warming up to Collins, the person. I like that he believes in what he's doing and defends it and defends his players, that he's consistent in his message and built on positivity - it shows conviction. He's saying and displaying some things that I like, even in a horrible loss, which is a good sign. I see no moral issues (yet) and see some ground for moral hope ... everything else I can give lots of leeway.

 

[Animal02]

I also want to add that I don't have a big problem with anything Collins is doing. As long as he's not cheating, I'm good with him doing things the way he believes they should be done and trying some things out. Wisdom is justified by her children, so conclusions will be valid at some point though delayed. I honestly am warming up to Collins, the person. I like that he believes in what he's doing and defends it and defends his players, that he's consistent in his message and built on positivity - it shows conviction. He's saying and displaying some things that I like, even in a horrible loss, which is a good sign. I see no moral issues (yet) and see some ground for moral hope ... everything else I can give lots of leeway.

Always appreciate your insight @vamosjackets

 

[AlabamaBuzz]

I also applaud your civil and reasoned takes. My only hesitations so far were the drive extending penalties (personal fouls for taunting) in the first half and to some degree, the dancing on the sidelines, especially when we are in a dogfight with a bad FCS team. But, like you, I want to give him the benefit of the doubt on items like this, because I assume he will "take care" of the discipline issues like the penalties like a HC should. (running bleachers comes to mind )

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

I also want to add that I don't have a big problem with anything Collins is doing. As long as he's not cheating, I'm good with him doing things the way he believes they should be done and trying some things out. Wisdom is justified by her children, so conclusions will be valid at some point though delayed. I honestly am warming up to Collins, the person. I like that he believes in what he's doing and defends it and defends his players, that he's consistent in his message and built on positivity - it shows conviction. He's saying and displaying some things that I like, even in a horrible loss, which is a good sign. I see no moral issues (yet) and see some ground for moral hope ... everything else I can give lots of leeway.

I always find myself agreeing with a lot of what you post, and after reading this post, I think it sums up why. Well written.

 

[vamosjackets]

I applaud your perspective. But there is no level of bad with the new staff and no level of good from any spread option staff that will change Tech fans’ hearts and minds about the triple option. It’s gone for good here no matter what.

I fear a painful 3 years but am hoping to be pleasantly surprised now. Gotta give him three years and a mulligan for this year.

If that's the case, I don't understand that at all. I don't understand the people that say, "It was time for a change", or "We were on a decline." We won 11 games in '14 (7 years into the option era), then 3 games, then 9 games, then 5 , then 7 (the 7 games could've so easily been 9). Like most teams, we go as our QB goes, and we had 2 or 3 extremely good looking QB's coming down the pipe for our system (Graham, Yates, Knight). Of course, the defense was the big x-factor and we had made a fantastic hire, so there was a lot of hope there. Seems like to me we were looking at a floor of continuing our winning ways and a ceiling of going to another Orange bowl ... If the defense had gotten right, who knows. The "decline" narrative is misleading at best and a completely blatant falsehood at worst. There is no logic to the "time for a change" message ... nothing but emotionalism "hope and change" stuff.

GSU went away from the option and back again (and were happy they did, see their record). Army went away from the option and back again (again, happy they did, and see their record). If we go away from it, recruit better, then go back to it ... I like that thought. Gotta be a great leader hire though, not just a system hire.

But, this is a daydream. Again, for now, I'm pulling for CGC. I hope he and the rest of the staff come into their own. Lots to like about the staff.

 

[AlabamaBuzz]

If that's the case, I don't understand that at all. I don't understand the people that say, "It was time for a change", or "We were on a decline." We won 11 games in '14 (7 years into the option era), then 3 games, then 9 games, then 5 , then 7 (the 7 games could've so easily been 9). Like most teams, we go as our QB goes, and we had 2 or 3 extremely good looking QB's coming down the pipe for our system (Graham, Yates, Knight). Of course, the defense was the big x-factor and we had made a fantastic hire, so there was a lot of hope there. Seems like to me we were looking at a floor of continuing our winning ways and a ceiling of going to another Orange bowl ... If the defense had gotten right, who knows. The "decline" narrative is misleading at best and a completely blatant falsehood at worst. There is no logic to the "time for a change" message ... nothing but emotionalism "hope and change" stuff.

GSU went away from the option and back again (and were happy they did, see their record). Army went away from the option and back again (again, happy they did, and see their record). If we go away from it, recruit better, then go back to it ... I like the that thought. Gotta be a great leader hire though, not just a system hire.

But, this is a daydream. Again, for now, I'm pulling for CGC. I hope he and the rest of the staff come into their own. Lots to like about the staff.

#1 - pulling for great success during the CGC era - that would be awesome

#2 - if success does not come, I hope we still have an FBS team to enjoy for years to come - we should never take it for granted, as we are still the only non-military academy STEM school that even attempts to do such a thing

 

[Longestday]

I am a GT fan ( No matter the offense) and I am a CPJ “tree” fan.

Never is a word that often (not always) has no meaning. Never say never. ; )

Duke spent more money on recruiting than GT... heck everyone in the ACC did....

Miami can’t give 9 plus wins a year and look how they recruit, their hype culture, and all the coaches they tried.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

I am a GT fan ( No matter the offense) and I am a CPJ “tree” fan.

Never is a word that often (not always) has no meaning. Never say never. ; )

Duke spent more money on recruiting than GT... heck everyone in the ACC did....

Miami can’t give 9 plus wins a year and look how they recruit, their hype culture, and all the coaches they tried.

So true. Even if CGC is a great recruiter.....Tech has to support him more or he will never have a fair shot here. Small improvements thus far aren’t enough. We need more staff and a bigger salary pool for assistants.

 

[FlatsLander]

The 3O will sadly never show back up in the P5 like we had it under CPJ. The narrative for the last 10 years is that it's been figured out, it doesn't send players to the NFL, and that it's a gimmick, and it sort of became a self-confirming prediction. Tell all the best high school players that they won't get to the NFL in that system (a lie) and they'll avoid it like the plague. The closest the P5 will get to the CPJ style of 3O is Auburn or tOSU.

edit: Just to be clear, I'm just commenting on the CPJ offense as an idea. I'm definitely supportive of the new staff and am curious what our offense will look like in a year or two.

 

[stech81]

If that's the case, I don't understand that at all. I don't understand the people that say, "It was time for a change", or "We were on a decline." We won 11 games in '14 (7 years into the option era), then 3 games, then 9 games, then 5 , then 7 (the 7 games could've so easily been 9). Like most teams, we go as our QB goes, and we had 2 or 3 extremely good looking QB's coming down the pipe for our system (Graham, Yates, Knight). Of course, the defense was the big x-factor and we had made a fantastic hire, so there was a lot of hope there. Seems like to me we were looking at a floor of continuing our winning ways and a ceiling of going to another Orange bowl ... If the defense had gotten right, who knows. The "decline" narrative is misleading at best and a completely blatant falsehood at worst. There is no logic to the "time for a change" message ... nothing but emotionalism "hope and change" stuff.

GSU went away from the option and back again (and were happy they did, see their record). Army went away from the option and back again (again, happy they did, and see their record). If we go away from it, recruit better, then go back to it ... I like that thought. Gotta be a great leader hire though, not just a system hire.

But, this is a daydream. Again, for now, I'm pulling for CGC. I hope he and the rest of the staff come into their own. Lots to like about the staff.

I really like CPJ but maybe I was wrong I got the impression by mid season he was getting tired and not enjoying it. As someone who got burned out at work and retired early it does help to back off. That said I like CGC just not his pick for OC. Love all the other coaches

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

The 3O will sadly never show back up in the P5 like we had it under CPJ. The narrative for the last 10 years is that it's been figured out, it doesn't send players to the NFL, and that it's a gimmick, and it sort of became a self-confirming prediction. Tell all the best high school players that they won't get to the NFL in that system (a lie) and they'll avoid it like the plague. The closest the P5 will get to the CPJ style of 3O is Auburn or tOSU.

edit: Just to be clear, I'm just commenting on the CPJ offense as an idea. I'm definitely supportive of the new staff and am curious what our offense will look like in a year or two.

It will show back up in P5 somewhere again. And it will work again. A guy like Monken can probably overcome a lot of that negative BS narrative stuff better than CPJ was ever able to.

 

[White_Gold]

I am not opposed to Monken should we need a change in 3 to 4 years. I don't want to be Duke, WF, or Vandy with an additional handicap of being a stem school... why should we out recruit these guys much less UGA and Clemson?

So long as TS is the AD we will not be hiring a CPJ tree coach, nor should we. We already did that experiment. It does not work consistently to win championships in the ACC. DOES NOT WORK. Read that again.

We offer way more to recruits than Duke, WF, Vandy. WAY MORE.
We can offer different but still very enticing things over UGA and Clemson. When put all together- GT should be just below the blue chips and above everyone else as far as recruiting goes. We should be Top 25 in recruiting every single year.

 

[White_Gold]

It will show back up in P5 somewhere again. And it will work again. A guy like Monken can probably overcome a lot of that negative BS narrative stuff better than CPJ was ever able to.

What’s your definition of working?