Great interview with CPJ

00Burdell

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,133
Location
Parts Unknown
A big part of the success of the option as CPJ ran it at Navy for example was the element of surprise with passing out of an 'under center' formation.

The ole' lull them to sleep with the run game, wait for the 2ndary to cheat up or whatever then BAM!

You don't get that (element of surprise) out of the shotgun - at least not the way we did it. Might as well have CPJ tell the other team's secondary to look out for a pass play.

The more plays you can run out of the same formation the better. That was Fridge's whole philosophy: don't let the formation tip your hand.
 

GT Man

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
898
"Part of the offseason has been spent reviewing video and compiling data from the season. One statistic Johnson noted: The Jackets completed more passes when the quarterback took the snap from under center rather than in the shotgun, which has often been the formation of choice among fans wanting to see more passing."

Interesting...
 

GT Man

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
898
The only thing I questioned in the whole article was the efficiency of passing from under center versus the gun. If we were less efficient out of the gun for the same do0wn and distance, then I agree with the conclusion. But what I remember is going to the gun on 3rd and a mile when everyone knew we were going to pass. Still, I really don't care that much because I'd be happy to run every play if we won every game that way.

That might have had something to do with the guy under center, as well as a lack of trust in the Oline's blocking. I dunno...
 

babuka

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
41
"Part of the offseason has been spent reviewing video and compiling data from the season. One statistic Johnson noted: The Jackets completed more passes when the quarterback took the snap from under center rather than in the shotgun, which has often been the formation of choice among fans wanting to see more passing."

Interesting...
It is all in how you look at it. Only look at the pass play success rate for 2nd and 3rd and long for both shotgun and under center. Nobody is expecting a run in these obvious passing situations so the element of surprised is removed. The shotgun gives QBs a better vantage point of the defense and allows him to read the defense while standing still or stepping up into the pocket rather than reversing out and taking a 3-5 step drop. The shotgun is a no brainer in obvious passing situations.
 

ATL1

Helluva Engineer
Messages
7,377
Basically we are not an effective passing team. The passing game sucks, it works when the team isn't expecting a pass but when the situation dictates (passing downs) we suck.
 

GTRanj

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
333
Location
Atlanta, Georgia
A big part of the success of the option as CPJ ran it at Navy for example was the element of surprise with passing out of an 'under center' formation.

The ole' lull them to sleep with the run game, wait for the 2ndary to cheat up or whatever then BAM!

You don't get that (element of surprise) out of the shotgun - at least not the way we did it. Might as well have CPJ tell the other team's secondary to look out for a pass play.

The more plays you can run out of the same formation the better. That was Fridge's whole philosophy: don't let the formation tip your hand.
I completely agree with you on this. For our two minute drill however, I think something must be changed. Not saying that shotgun is the answer for the two minute drill, but maybe a play calling communication so that the players get the play in much faster.
 

gtdrew

Banned
Messages
740
Location
Decatur
I'm not saying it won;t help, but I don;t think we are really going to see a big difference. Especially since he could use exceptions on 20% of the class already. I just don;t believe there are that many star players out there who can;t meet the academic standards who actually want to come to Tech.
You'd be wrong about that, then...
 

GTNavyNuke

Helluva Engineer
Featured Member
Messages
7,576
Location
Poquoson Virginia
A bigger question is does this buy CPJ an extra year or 2?

As I've said before, Tech is hard as you make if you are SA. If you can't put in decent effort to get a 2.0, then there is something really wrong with you (Looks like Akins didn't want to put in that little bit of effort)

No more time for CPJ in my opinion - it still ALL depends on how we do in a win / loss (power ranking) and more importantly how much money we make / lose.

This relaxation should help at the margins, but there are like 25 independent variables and it'll be hard to say this relaxation was the key.
 

Stonewall

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
206
Location
Statesboro, GA
I agree that no "flood gate of 5 stars" will commence. However, this will absolutely make our recruiting process less stressful for the coaches, and will help prevent a few of those defections or instances of us "backing off" a recruit as a result of low scores (assuming we believe the kid can succeed).

yep. there will be no flood gate. but, we don't need it. we just need to land a handful of genuine playmakers every class to get somewhere, IMO.
 

jayparr

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,312
Location
newnan
There were 3 dls we just missed on, and if we had gotten any onf them our won- loss record would have been improved by at least 2 wins per season! First there was Brandon Thompson(clemson), Tuitt(ND), And Vaunters(SP) Stanford, and oh yes also Tomlinson(al). That is in my ho.
 

daBuzz

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
965
"Part of the offseason has been spent reviewing video and compiling data from the season. One statistic Johnson noted: The Jackets completed more passes when the quarterback took the snap from under center rather than in the shotgun, which has often been the formation of choice among fans wanting to see more passing."

Interesting...

It would be more interesting, and more compelling, if we knew how many passes were thrown out of each formation.

Note that CPJ says that we completed "more passes", not "a higher percent of passes".

My memory, which admittedly can often be faulty, says that we took somewhere in the neighborhood of 70% or more of our snaps from under center last year. If that's correct, then of course we threw more passes from under center than out of the shotgun. In which case, it would absolutely make more sense that we completed more passes that way.
 

GT Man

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
898
It would be more interesting, and more compelling, if we knew how many passes were thrown out of each formation.

Note that CPJ says that we completed "more passes", not "a higher percent of passes".

My memory, which admittedly can often be faulty, says that we took somewhere in the neighborhood of 70% or more of our snaps from under center last year. If that's correct, then of course we threw more passes from under center than out of the shotgun. In which case, it would absolutely make more sense that we completed more passes that way.

Well the way I look at it is; if PJ thought shotgun worked better than under center for passing, we would be going to shotgun. I understand the QB has better vision out of the gun, but doing everything from under center makes us less predictable. Will we pass? will we dive? will we pitch?
 

dressedcheeseside

Helluva Engineer
Messages
13,674
Thing to remember: Exceptions are for TECH only. They are NCAA qualified, but the HILL turned them down for whatever reason. Still tough to compete against students that want to major in football. Better explained here:

http://georgiatech.blog.ajc.com/2014/03/12/johnson-hopeful-about-admissions-changes/
The follow up article you posted really puts it into better perspective. This change will help, but it's far from being an equalizer looking at the big picture.

The change doesn’t necessarily deepen the pool of available prospects, as Tech was selectively recruiting exceptions previously.

“You can’t bring in guys here who aren’t going to make it,” Johnson said.

Other factors, such as the limited offerings of majors and the school’s academic rigor, still exist. Prospects who weren’t interested in playing at Tech prior to the removal of the exceptions cap won’t be any more interested now. But it does eliminate the juggling act Johnson and his staff had to do as they targeted their recruiting efforts.

If this leads to just one more "game changer" a year, it'll pay nice dividends on the field.
 

daBuzz

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
965
Well the way I look at it is; if PJ thought shotgun worked better than under center for passing, we would be going to shotgun. I understand the QB has better vision out of the gun, but doing everything from under center makes us less predictable. Will we pass? will we dive? will we pitch?

I don't doubt that. I'm merely casting doubt upon the stat he chose to throw out there to prove his point. I'm not willing to accept that stat at face value of being more effective if we actually did take 3x more plays from under center than we did from the gun.

If you're running 3 times the plays from one formation, then it stands to reason you're going to have more yards rushing and passing from that formation.

And, FWIW, I'm not arguing one way or the other. I could care less if we start under center or out of the gun. I just wish we weren't so one-dimensional. Having read the opinions of many on this board, I realize I'm probably in the minority.

But the NFL and college games have both become primarily passing leagues. And our insistence on running the ball 80% of the time means that we are going to struggle to get the Calvin Johnson's & Demaryius Thomas'es of the high school football world to even consider coming to play at GT. Just my opinion.
 

AE 87

Helluva Engineer
Messages
12,967
I don't doubt that. I'm merely casting doubt upon the stat he chose to throw out there to prove his point. I'm not willing to accept that stat at face value of being more effective if we actually did take 3x more plays from under center than we did from the gun.

If you're running 3 times the plays from one formation, then it stands to reason you're going to have more yards rushing and passing from that formation.

And, FWIW, I'm not arguing one way or the other. I could care less if we start under center or out of the gun. I just wish we weren't so one-dimensional. Having read the opinions of many on this board, I realize I'm probably in the minority.

But the NFL and college games have both become primarily passing leagues. And our insistence on running the ball 80% of the time means that we are going to struggle to get the Calvin Johnson's & Demaryius Thomas'es of the high school football world to even consider coming to play at GT. Just my opinion.
.

You are referring to Ken's characterization of the stat as "completed more passes." Now, it's quite possible, and I think likely, that CPJ was not referring to completion %. He may have said, "We complete more," meaning "had a higher completion %." Of course, it doesn't parse for situation, such as down and distance, but it wouldn't be meaningless.

I mean, imo, it's not as bad with respect to the use of statistics as saying that every CPJ loss is by definition a failure evidence that his offense is failing or that defenses are catching up with his defense.
 
Top