Great AJC Article

[Augusta_Jacket]

This ain’t true. Better get those 4* and develop like they did with LaMiles, Sims, King and keep it moving or his tenure as HC won’t be long

I've never understood why we treat recruiting vs development as polar opposites. In truth, we need both.

 

[yeti92]

I agree. Key is clearly going the "development" route rather than recruit 4-5 star guys route.

Not sure about that, he already has a 4 star qb committed for the next class.

 

[RamblinRed]

4 star recruits need to be developed just like 3 star or no star recruits.

There have been comments that Collins staff was more focused on 'recruiting stars' than evaluation.

The staff took alot of recruits that were not highly regarded and not highly recruited by P5 schools. We will find out in 3-4 years if there evaluations were good or not (and more importantly how well they are developed - which is up to both the recruit and the coaching).
Overall I think the staff did a good job.

I do believe Key is running a much more professional and focused operation than Collins ever did. That doesn't mean the program is going to succeed, but it gives it a better chance to.

 

[bobongo]

Not sure about that, he already has a 4 star qb committed for the next class.

Yeah, and I don't get why anyone would eschew 4- and 5-star guys anyway (as if we ever turned down or even had any 5-star guys).
You get the best you can and develop them the best you can. It isn't either/or. Am I missing something?

 

[MountainBuzzMan]

I do believe Key is running a much more professional and focused operation than Collins ever did. That doesn't mean the program is going to succeed, but it gives it a better chance to.

Alabama does the same things. We may have the beginnings of a beautiful relationship

 

[GTRambler]

Well, it is Coach Brent Key’s very first recruiting class. Got to lay down the first cement block to get the foundation started.

 

[g0lftime]

He actually gives you facts about what his intentions are in his interviews. I like his candor and he offers his vision for the program. Not a lot of cliches and hype. I just hope he can be successful. I sure am pulling for him.

 

[lv20gt]

I think Kelly and Key were referingvto the ol transition .

On rivals there has been a discussion about the transition of the ol. It is led by Kelly with specifics names and numbers. Collins year 1 = zero ol recruits, then injuries, some misses in ol, then w Gibbs need instant help to support a generatal talent = grad transfer ol, last year a good mix of transfer and hs recruits.

This past year we had one returning starter in the ol. This year we have all 5 starters returning. Under Key this year 6 hs ol were recruited.

You can look at the numbers themseves. You only need one hand. Here are the OL transfers the first three years

2019 - Jared Southers
2020 - Ryan Johnson and Devin Cochran
2021 - Nick Pendly and Kenneth Kirby

We took 5 total OL transfers the first 3 years. Only 4 were one year transfers (Pendley had 4 when he transferred). We signed 6 OLmen in Collins first real class (yes we signed 0 in the transition class when he took over in december). Also, we had 2 OL committed at the time of Collins being hired. Both ended up elsewhere and the thought was that Collins pulled the offers. However if you believe what was posted here about Key wanting to get rid of all the OLmen from Johnson, bring in 12 recruits and start completely fresh, then I think it's more likely that Key was the one who pushed that than Collins.

Regardless the notion that we loaded up on one year OL transfers during the transition is just not true. It doesn't matter if it's a random poster posting it, Kelly reporting it, or Key himself saying it. 4 in three years for a position group of 5 is not a lot.

 

[Root4GT]

I don't think it was Ken...I think HCBK revealed some frustration with too many one and done's signed by the previous administration. Ken was just picking up on that.

You can look at the numbers themseves. You only need one hand. Here are the OL transfers the first three years

2019 - Jared Southers
2020 - Ryan Johnson and Devin Cochran
2021 - Nick Pendly and Kenneth Kirby

We took 5 total OL transfers the first 3 years. Only 4 were one year transfers (Pendley had 4 when he transferred). We signed 6 OLmen in Collins first real class (yes we signed 0 in the transition class when he took over in december). Also, we had 2 OL committed at the time of Collins being hired. Both ended up elsewhere and the thought was that Collins pulled the offers. However if you believe what was posted here about Key wanting to get rid of all the OLmen from Johnson, bring in 12 recruits and start completely fresh, then I think it's more likely that Key was the one who pushed that than Collins.

Regardless the notion that we loaded up on one year OL transfers during the transition is just not true. It doesn't matter if it's a random poster posting it, Kelly reporting it, or Key himself saying it. 4 in three years for a position group of 5 is not a lot.

Johnson was here for 2 years to boot. Collins sucked as a coach but this line he took bunches of 1 year guys is BS. We had zero TEs, think we needed one in year 1. We needed a PK and the Tennessee transfer did a nice job when we had no one. McGowen was an excellent 1 year pickup as a slot receiver and allowed McCullum to develop behind him.

Place blame where it belongs, Collins teams were bad. It had zero to do with loading up on 1 year transfers. The OL guys behind the transfers couldn't beat out the transfers and then they were basically awful their first year as starters as 2nd and 3rd year players.

 

[jacketup]

Early in his tenure, Collins brought in a lot of one and done transfers. Almost any transfer who has seen significant playing time has done so as a short eligibility transfer. Last year was the first year we really saw a break away from that mold. My favorite part was not digging in the weeds about how many is too many, but rather this bit at the end:

“When you’re developing a football team, you develop a team to win and win as soon as you can, but at the same time, you’re not going to forsake that for Year 2, Year 3, Year 4,” Key said. “So there’s got to be a process, and there’s got to be a way of doing things, and you can’t change.”

I added the rest for context, but one of my biggest gripes with Collins is he kept getting away from what he was actually good at, which is recruiting HS athletes. Trying to patch holes with transfers was never going to be a long term solution. I think Key gets this.

And you ignore the fact that many of them were on the OL, where Johnson left nothing behind--such as a 274 lb left tackle (source:ramblinwreck.com). There were Johnson OL recruits on scholarship even last year that have never seen the field.

You don't want first and second year players on the OL. When you have to plug holes on the OL, you want grad transfers, and that is what Collins did. He was dealt a bad hand that he could not overcome, especially with the wrench that Covid threw into recruiting. But again, for what we pay coaches, I don't know who could have.

 

[Creative]

Collins did a lot of things wrong, but I’m not sure this is one of them.
Ace Eley, Keion White, Pierce Quick, Paul Tchio, RJ Adams, Luke Benson, Zach Gibson, Khari Gee, Eric Reed, Taisun Phommachanh, Makius Scott, Kevin Harris, Nick Pendley, Kenyatta Watson, Derrik Allen.

Those are all transfers that were brought in under Collins with more than 1 year of eligibility. I think the group of transfers we got this year are fine, but not sure why Ken decided to throw in the verifiably untrue line.

Yeah that may have been one of two things he did right. Also if a top tier player wants to come here, with one year left, to be close to a sick family member, I think we welcome with open arms. Yes, let’s get guys with a few years left, BUT let’s not kick out a former five star out of bed for eating crackers for having 1 year left.

 

[swampsting]

Here are the one and dones Collins brought in for the 19, 20, and 21 classes.

Tyler Davis - added as TE when Collins first got here. We had no TEs on roster so makes sense.
Jared Southers
Devin Cochran
Ryan Johnson
Kyric McGowan
Kenneth Kirby
Brent Cimaglia

So about two a year. Similar to last year. Similar to this class.

And of course Collins brought in a higher % of one year transfers early in his tenure. It's almost like there was a rule change that happened the greatly impacted the way transfers were handled.

Thought Johnson played two years at GT

 

[g0lftime]

Thought Johnson played two years at GT

He did. Got a covid year. I think he may have even worked on a second masters. Played hurt his last year.

 

[orientalnc]

According to ramblinwreckcom, the weights for the 2018 OL guys are listed below:

Jahaziel Lee 6'2" 308
Parker Braun 6'3" 280
Kenny Cooper 6'3" 325
Conner Hansen 6'2" 314
Zach Quinney 6'6" 315

Maybe those guys trimmed down to 260 just for the CGC weigh-in, but I don't understand the argument. Of course, Braun left to play at Texas (I guess they like 260 OL guys).

The freshman OL guys on that 2018 team, except for the walk-ons, all weighed 300 or better. So Johnson was not recruiting 260 pound guys. That whole notion is BS.

If you want to say those guys were all recruited to be run blockers and lacked the skill set for a pro-style offense, then I can somewhat agree. But GT was throwing the ball in the TO with more success than in the CGC offense.

Don't come back at me with the anti-Johnson posts. I believe he left GT when he was ready for the very reasons he stated. I loved watching the TO when it was successful, but agreed we needed to move away from that offense.

 

[takethepoints]

And you ignore the fact that many of them were on the OL, where Johnson left nothing behind--such as a 274 lb left tackle (source:ramblinwreck.com). There were Johnson OL recruits on scholarship even last year that have never seen the field.

You don't want first and second year players on the OL. When you have to plug holes on the OL, you want grad transfers, and that is what Collins did. He was dealt a bad hand that he could not overcome, especially with the wrench that Covid threw into recruiting. But again, for what we pay coaches, I don't know who could have.

And a 310 lb right guard and a 305 lb center and a 280 lb left guard and etc. etc. etc. The OTs were lighter because they had downfield blocking responsibilities and their blocks were more difficult. There were plenty of OLs left over; the problem was finding a scheme that could use them. TFG was more interested in "establishing a brand" then in, you know, winning with the team left behind and building for the future. I never understood his reasoning on that. As to the OL transfers: none of them but Cochran proved to be anything special, despite breathless press releases. Overall, I consider the way TFG used the OL as perhaps his biggest failing, though the OL injuries in his first year were crippling. But transfers and all, performance never improved until Key took over.

 

[cthenrys]

According to ramblinwreckcom, the weights for the 2018 OL guys are listed below:

Jahaziel Lee 6'2" 308
Parker Braun 6'3" 280
Kenny Cooper 6'3" 325
Conner Hansen 6'2" 314
Zach Quinney 6'6" 315

Maybe those guys trimmed down to 260 just for the CGC weigh-in, but I don't understand the argument. Of course, Braun left to play at Texas (I guess they like 260 OL guys).

The freshman OL guys on that 2018 team, except for the walk-ons, all weighed 300 or better. So Johnson was not recruiting 260 pound guys. That whole notion is BS.

If you want to say those guys were all recruited to be run blockers and lacked the skill set for a pro-style offense, then I can somewhat agree. But GT was throwing the ball in the TO with more success than in the CGC offense.

Don't come back at me with the anti-Johnson posts. I believe he left GT when he was ready for the very reasons he stated. I loved watching the TO when it was successful, but agreed we needed to move away from that offense.

Like almost everything Collins did, it was a lie.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Well, it is Coach Brent Key’s very first recruiting class. Got to lay down the first cement concrete block to get the foundation started.

Fixed it for you. As a materials guy, this drives me nuts. Sorry, not personal.

 

[forensicbuzz]

And a 310 lb right guard and a 305 lb center and a 280 lb left guard and etc. etc. etc. The OTs were lighter because they had downfield blocking responsibilities and their blocks were more difficult. There were plenty of OLs left over; the problem was finding a scheme that could use them. TFG was more interested in "establishing a brand" then in, you know, winning with the team left behind and building for the future. I never understood his reasoning on that. As to the OL transfers: none of them but Cochran proved to be anything special, despite breathless press releases. Overall, I consider the way TFG used the OL as perhaps his biggest failing, though the OL injuries in his first year were crippling. But transfers and all, performance never improved until Key took over.

(Arbitrarily choosing your post to respond to)

I don't care how light or heavy our offensive linemen are. I want them to make contact with the defensive players and block them. The only metrics that matter are how they perform on the field.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Why are we still talking about Collins?

 

[Ibeeballin]

According to ramblinwreckcom, the weights for the 2018 OL guys are listed below:

Jahaziel Lee 6'2" 308
Parker Braun 6'3" 280
Kenny Cooper 6'3" 325
Conner Hansen 6'2" 314
Zach Quinney 6'6" 315

Maybe those guys trimmed down to 260 just for the CGC weigh-in, but I don't understand the argument. Of course, Braun left to play at Texas (I guess they like 260 OL guys).

The freshman OL guys on that 2018 team, except for the walk-ons, all weighed 300 or better. So Johnson was not recruiting 260 pound guys. That whole notion is BS.

If you want to say those guys were all recruited to be run blockers and lacked the skill set for a pro-style offense, then I can somewhat agree. But GT was throwing the ball in the TO with more success than in the CGC offense.

Don't come back at me with the anti-Johnson posts. I believe he left GT when he was ready for the very reasons he stated. I loved watching the TO when it was successful, but agreed we needed to move away from that offense.

Those were updated weight Fall 2018. These are the 2 deep weight from bowl game vs. Minnesota

Quinney 6-6 276lb
Ivemeyer 6-1 270lb

Braun 6-3 280lb
Clark 6-4 280lb

Cooper 6-3 305lb
Lee 6-2 287lb

Hansen 6-2 310lb
Morgan 6-4 288lb

Marshall 6-4 282lb
Bryan 6-4 285lb

This horse has beaten to death, researched and proven what the actual avg weight was. Was CGC exaggerating the 260lbs? What was the avg weight. It was more like 272

Was CPJ recruiting 260lb OL? Yes

Zach Quinney 2017 Offensive Tackle Georgia Tech

Zach Quinney - 3 Star Offensive tackle for Georgia Tech on JacketsOnline

n.rivals.com

Harrison Jump 2018 Offensive Tackle Georgia Tech

Harrison Jump - 2 Star Offensive tackle for Georgia Tech on JacketsOnline

n.rivals.com