Grandma Talent

Lee

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
623
Projected records for 2021 compared to last year:
Tech in 2020 3-7, 2021 4-9......ONE win increase
BC in 2020 6-5 ( WOW !), 2021 6-6.......Hafley hired coordinators with NFL experience in 2020 AND installed a Pass oriented offense in Year 1.
UL in 2020 4-7 , 2021 6-6.........TWO more wins
FSU in 2020 3-6 , 2021 6-6......DOUBLE their win total

There is a lot that goes into those predictions (or at least I would assume there is. My guess is it’s heavily weighted on returning production, overall talent level, and schedule.

I’ll just focus on schedule. Below is what I feel our rejected record would be all things being equal but changing schedules.

Swap with:

FSU: 6-6, 5-7 at worst
BC: 6-6, maybe 7-5, but for sure 5-7 at worst
UL: 6-6. 5-7 at worst

Maybe I’m off, but I’d trade schedules with any of those teams.
 

Sheboygan

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
373
Location
Oostburg Wis. ( It's DUTCH !)
Really ? Evaluating the team’s progress by W-L record is a lazy route ? Wow.

If we are improving but so are other teams, then we need to improve more. The complaint that our talent level Is so far below our comp (BC / Syracuse / Pitt ???) just won’t hold water anymore, nor will the ”historic transition“ excuse.

Win games. Don’t suck. If you can’t do the former at least don’t do the latter.

I get the 7 year contract but another 3-4 win season and the seat will be very warm going into 2022....

IIWI
I think the seat should get warm .......AT LEAST on the coordinators if we win only 3-4 next year. Caralla is getting their bodies competitive, but we need more improvement from the neck up, IMO.
 

Sheboygan

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
373
Location
Oostburg Wis. ( It's DUTCH !)
There is a lot that goes into those predictions (or at least I would assume there is. My guess is it’s heavily weighted on returning production, overall talent level, and schedule.

I’ll just focus on schedule. Below is what I feel our rejected record would be all things being equal but changing schedules.

Swap with:

FSU: 6-6, 5-7 at worst
BC: 6-6, maybe 7-5, but for sure 5-7 at worst
UL: 6-6. 5-7 at worst

Maybe I’m off, but I’d trade schedules with any of those teams.
Schedule is DEFINITELY a big part of this. But I am looking for overall better play as much as schedule. Fewer penalties, better pursuit angles, more eye discipline, finishing pass routes, smoother and more deceptive ball handling, wrapping up on tackling.........you know FUNDAMENTALS. That's coaching, IMO. Also with coaching, better clock management, in game adjustments in scheme during the play , not just at halftime. At times it has felt like our coaches are learning how to coach also.
 

Lee

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
623
Schedule is DEFINITELY a big part of this. But I am looking for overall better play as much as schedule. Fewer penalties, better pursuit angles, more eye discipline, finishing pass routes, smoother and more deceptive ball handling, wrapping up on tackling.........you know FUNDAMENTALS. That's coaching, IMO. Also with coaching, better clock management, in game adjustments in scheme during the play , not just at halftime. At times it has felt like our coaches are learning how to coach also.

I agree. I think we saw some of that last year in spots but regressed in others. I expect we will see most if not all your asking for this year.

I have been frustrated with the in game adjustments as well. Especially on the defensive side of the ball. I feel like Thacker and crew normally do a good job coming out of halftime, but need to do better earlier in the game. He is a young coach though. I hope he/the defense show improvement in this area this year.

Other thing to think about is how young we will be at key spots. Namely QB. Thankfully Sims has a year under his belt, but this will still just be his 2nd year in college. I'm hoping for major improvements, but expect there will still be some hiccups.
 

Root4GT

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
48
I agree. I think we saw some of that last year in spots but regressed in others. I expect we will see most if not all your asking for this year.

I have been frustrated with the in game adjustments as well. Especially on the defensive side of the ball. I feel like Thacker and crew normally do a good job coming out of halftime, but need to do better earlier in the game. He is a young coach though. I hope he/the defense show improvement in this area this year.

Other thing to think about is how young we will be at key spots. Namely QB. Thankfully Sims has a year under his belt, but this will still just be his 2nd year in college. I'm hoping for major improvements, but expect there will still be some hiccups.
It seemed to me that the defense simply got bullied on the D line and the inside linebackers last season. Our safety play was well below expectations for whatever reasons, health or just playing below their talent level. Swilling being hurt much of the year significantly impacted our CBs play. Walton was solid, However if your front 7 constantly gets beaten down there are not many adjustments you can make. We tried a lot of different things on defense last year. Very few worked all because the front 7 stunk up the playing field as compared to their opponents. That part of our defense needs a big step forward if we are going to be a better team this year.
 

Northeast Stinger

Helluva Engineer
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4,506
I think the vast majority of GT fans believe the talent level is improving and the coaching has been dubious. That’s the majority opinion. I also believe everyone knows this year the focus is squarely on the coaching. My concern is that the folks will take the lazy route and simply look at the record vis a vis wins and losses to determine their opinion. I think most knowledgeable and “deeper” fans will look at performance more than the record. I don‘t think we‘ll see much improvement on the record front but I think we’ll see big improvement in overall play. My belief is that while we are incrementally improving so are other teams. And wins are hard to come by. I believe Collins will get us there player wise and I believe he’ll get this staff there but it’s a process especially with a newer type head coach. I’m grateful that Stansbury didn’t go the retread route or the quasi retired route. But hiring a less experienced guy will make the process longer. But the rewards could be huge if it’s successful because Collins won’t jump at the first job offer that comes his way like Ross did. I think we are very well situated for the long run.
I basically agree except for one point, which I have posted elsewhere. If the coaches tighten it up, and the team executes without false starts, turnovers, blown coverage and penalties, there is no reason this level of talent can’t win 7 games.

But I agree that showing improvement regardless of record is what many of us are looking for.
 

Sheboygan

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
373
Location
Oostburg Wis. ( It's DUTCH !)
I basically agree except for one point, which I have posted elsewhere. If the coaches tighten it up, and the team executes without false starts, turnovers, blown coverage and penalties, there is no reason this level of talent can’t win 7 games.

But I agree that showing improvement regardless of record is what many of us are looking for.
Agreed. Clean up a lot of the unforced errors and the wins will follow. Talent is becoming less and less of an issue, IMO.
 

Coloradojacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,787
I agree. I think we saw some of that last year in spots but regressed in others. I expect we will see most if not all your asking for this year.

I have been frustrated with the in game adjustments as well. Especially on the defensive side of the ball. I feel like Thacker and crew normally do a good job coming out of halftime, but need to do better earlier in the game. He is a young coach though. I hope he/the defense show improvement in this area this year.

Other thing to think about is how young we will be at key spots. Namely QB. Thankfully Sims has a year under his belt, but this will still just be his 2nd year in college. I'm hoping for major improvements, but expect there will still be some hiccups.
If Sims is not vastly improved, that is on the coaching. Here are some 2nd year QBs. Shawn Jones:11-0-1 NC. Justin Thomas 11-3. Josh Nesbit 11-3 ACC Champions, yes technically third year but Gailey burned a year with him in wildcat formation.
 

forensicbuzz

Helluva Engineer
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North Shore, Chicago
If Sims is not vastly improved, that is on the coaching. Here are some 2nd year QBs. Shawn Jones:11-0-1 NC. Justin Thomas 11-3. Josh Nesbit 11-3 ACC Champions, yes technically third year but Gailey burned a year with him in wildcat formation.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but W/L isn't the stat to look at. Look at passing yards, rushing yards, turnovers, TD's, etc., but probably not W/L.
 

Root4GT

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
48
If Sims is not vastly improved, that is on the coaching. Here are some 2nd year QBs. Shawn Jones:11-0-1 NC. Justin Thomas 11-3. Josh Nesbit 11-3 ACC Champions, yes technically third year but Gailey burned a year with him in wildcat formation.
JT had by far his best year as a sophomore. Sean Jones sophomore stats were very ordinary (2000 yards passing, 13 TDs and 12 Ints while rushing for 277 yards with a 3.0 average per carry). The talent both had on their teams is what propelled the great seasons GT had. Both of them were critical players in the teams success but neither had to carry the team on their shoulders. Josh had a terrific year his 3rd year in the program. He also had a wealth of talent around him and a very proven coach with a proven system. Sims should have more talent this year than his first year, still besides Gibbs not much of the talent is proven. The transfers from NW and Vandy were good players on their former teams and should help a lot. The coaching staff is still unproven as to their ability to maximize the talent the team has. This year we are finally getting enough talent to compete with the mid tier ACC teams on an equal footing. Much of the talent are either very young or transfers in. Should be an interesting year indeed.
 

Coloradojacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,787
JT had by far his best year as a sophomore. Sean Jones sophomore stats were very ordinary (2000 yards passing, 13 TDs and 12 Ints while rushing for 277 yards with a 3.0 average per carry). The talent both had on their teams is what propelled the great seasons GT had. Both of them were critical players in the teams success but neither had to carry the team on their shoulders. Josh had a terrific year his 3rd year in the program. He also had a wealth of talent around him and a very proven coach with a proven system. Sims should have more talent this year than his first year, still besides Gibbs not much of the talent is proven. The transfers from NW and Vandy were good players on their former teams and should help a lot. The coaching staff is still unproven as to their ability to maximize the talent the team has. This year we are finally getting enough talent to compete with the mid tier ACC teams on an equal footing. Much of the talent are either very young or transfers in. Should be an interesting year indeed.
Well, I would say we do have talent. Mason is an All ACC running back. For Jones he did have a great OL and quality WRs. But he also had CRF. I am not looking for 11 wins, all I am saying is we need to see a lot of improvement. If we don't then we need to look at replacing some coaches....
 

Jacketman99

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
723
Hopefully Sims will have the quality of oline that each of those 3 had. Also I know that was the third year for both JT and Nesbitt. I think Sims will improve but how much that is reflected in certain stats and record will be greatly influenced by what happens up front.
 

ncjacket79

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,150
If Sims is not vastly improved, that is on the coaching. Here are some 2nd year QBs. Shawn Jones:11-0-1 NC. Justin Thomas 11-3. Josh Nesbit 11-3 ACC Champions, yes technically third year but Gailey burned a year with him in wildcat formation.
Shawn redshirted so technically you’re talking about his 3rd year in the program. Justin and Josh had the advantage of easing into the job. Jeff didn’t even have a real freshman year. I expect him to be improved but vastly is not only not measurable but a strange bar to set.
 

first&ten

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
755
I think the vast majority of GT fans believe the talent level is improving and the coaching has been dubious. That’s the majority opinion. I also believe everyone knows this year the focus is squarely on the coaching. My concern is that the folks will take the lazy route and simply look at the record vis a vis wins and losses to determine their opinion. I think most knowledgeable and “deeper” fans will look at performance more than the record. I don‘t think we‘ll see much improvement on the record front but I think we’ll see big improvement in overall play. My belief is that while we are incrementally improving so are other teams. And wins are hard to come by. I believe Collins will get us there player wise and I believe he’ll get this staff there but it’s a process especially with a newer type head coach. I’m grateful that Stansbury didn’t go the retread route or the quasi retired route. But hiring a less experienced guy will make the process longer. But the rewards could be huge if it’s successful because Collins won’t jump at the first job offer that comes his way like Ross did. I think we are very well situated for the long run.
Ross was the best thing to happen to Tech football in a very dark era. He might have remained our coach, but he just didn't like the recruiting aspect.
 

Lee

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
623
If Sims is not vastly improved, that is on the coaching. Here are some 2nd year QBs. Shawn Jones:11-0-1 NC. Justin Thomas 11-3. Josh Nesbit 11-3 ACC Champions, yes technically third year but Gailey burned a year with him in wildcat formation.
I think this is a ridiculous statement. I'll show why below.

Let's start with Jones. I was 5 when he was playing in 1990 so I can't say I remember him playing. What I do want to do is compare his 2nd year (3rd year at GT and NC year) stats to Jeff Sims true freshman (with little to no Spring, no Summer and an abbreviated Fall due to Covid) stats.

3rd year Jones: 142-245 (58% completion) for 2008 yards. 13 TD/12INTs. He rushed 91 times for 277 yards and 6 TDs.
1st year Sims: 141-257 (54.9% completion) for 1881 yards. 13TD/13 INT's. He rushed 120 times for 492 yards and 6 TDs.

Those seasons are not significantly different in my opinion. Both threw a bunch of picks and the same amount of TDs. Jones had more yard passing and Sims more on the ground. Sims also did this with one less game. One guy won a National Championship. The other won 3 games and lost to Clemson 73-7. Do you think QB play was the determining factor in either season?

To follow that up, Jones regressed in his Junior season, throwing 7 more INTs than TDs. Did the coaching change in between 90-91 for him at QB?

Let's look at Justin Thomas next. From 2014 to 2015 he had ~400 less yards passing, completed 10% less of his passes, threw 5 less TDs, and threw 2 more INTs. He also rushed for 600 less yard and over 2 YPC less. Was this a coaching issue? I think not. Was he a worse player? Nope. Sometimes when all the pieces around you aren't there, you feel like you have to do more than you do and can regress from a statistical and decision making standpoint.

Lastly, let's look at Nesbitt. He was in his 3rd year. He did make big improvements from year 1 in the offense to year 2. He also had 2 NFL runnings backs, 3 future NFL wide receivers (1 first round and 1 second round), and at least one future NFL OL. Not to mention he had multiple long time NFL players on the defensive side of the ball.

To sum up, I think Sims will be improved, but to measure that by our record compared to the teams you mentioned is not fair. If our offensive line is improved, my guess is Sims will look a lot better even if he hasn't improved himself. There are a lot of other factors that go into it as well.

I'm not saying he's getting or not getting the coaching he needs, but to make an assumption on his improvement based on the team's record is crazy IMO. Even if you're just basing it on stats alone, it doesn't tell the story (see JT).
 

Techfan02

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
168
I think this is a ridiculous statement. I'll show why below.

Let's start with Jones. I was 5 when he was playing in 1990 so I can't say I remember him playing. What I do want to do is compare his 2nd year (3rd year at GT and NC year) stats to Jeff Sims true freshman (with little to no Spring, no Summer and an abbreviated Fall due to Covid) stats.

3rd year Jones: 142-245 (58% completion) for 2008 yards. 13 TD/12INTs. He rushed 91 times for 277 yards and 6 TDs.
1st year Sims: 141-257 (54.9% completion) for 1881 yards. 13TD/13 INT's. He rushed 120 times for 492 yards and 6 TDs.

Those seasons are not significantly different in my opinion. Both threw a bunch of picks and the same amount of TDs. Jones had more yard passing and Sims more on the ground. Sims also did this with one less game. One guy won a National Championship. The other won 3 games and lost to Clemson 73-7. Do you think QB play was the determining factor in either season?

To follow that up, Jones regressed in his Junior season, throwing 7 more INTs than TDs. Did the coaching change in between 90-91 for him at QB?

Let's look at Justin Thomas next. From 2014 to 2015 he had ~400 less yards passing, completed 10% less of his passes, threw 5 less TDs, and threw 2 more INTs. He also rushed for 600 less yard and over 2 YPC less. Was this a coaching issue? I think not. Was he a worse player? Nope. Sometimes when all the pieces around you aren't there, you feel like you have to do more than you do and can regress from a statistical and decision making standpoint.

Lastly, let's look at Nesbitt. He was in his 3rd year. He did make big improvements from year 1 in the offense to year 2. He also had 2 NFL runnings backs, 3 future NFL wide receivers (1 first round and 1 second round), and at least one future NFL OL. Not to mention he had multiple long time NFL players on the defensive side of the ball.

To sum up, I think Sims will be improved, but to measure that by our record compared to the teams you mentioned is not fair. If our offensive line is improved, my guess is Sims will look a lot better even if he hasn't improved himself. There are a lot of other factors that go into it as well.

I'm not saying he's getting or not getting the coaching he needs, but to make an assumption on his improvement based on the team's record is crazy IMO. Even if you're just basing it on stats alone, it doesn't tell the story (see JT).
JT to be specific was missing a pro bowl RG by the name of shaq mason and waller lot of the pieces were still there just didn’t go well
 

Root4GT

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
48
JT to be specific was missing a pro bowl RG by the name of shaq mason and waller lot of the pieces were still there just didn’t go well
Which is the exact point Lee made. QB play isn’t isolated, rather it’s a very important part of the team. Quality players are required at multiple positions for team success. Of course you already knew that as does everyone who has posted in this thread.
 

Heisman's Ghost

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Sports talking head Beau Bock is back on the air after his stroke. MANY years ago he coined the phrase that many of you are familiar with - Grandma Talent.
For those of you not familiar, it means having recruited( or inherited) enough football talent that your Grandma could win games coaching them.
Gentlemen and Ladies, we obviously have upped our recruiting and added more better players than we have lost by transfer. We had a ways to go before Collins got here and still have a ways to go to compete consistently with UVA, Pitt, BC, etc. , not to mention ND, UGA and Clem. Both FSU and UL were train wrecks at points during the season last year- we beat both didn't we ? Check out


It gives a fairly good run down on our conference, IMO. In the group of FSU , UL, BC and Tech with new-ish coaches, we seem to be the one lagging behind.
Projected records for 2021 compared to last year:
Tech in 2020 3-7, 2021 4-9......ONE win increase
BC in 2020 6-5 ( WOW !), 2021 6-6.......Hafley hired coordinators with NFL experience in 2020 AND installed a Pass oriented offense in Year 1.
UL in 2020 4-7 , 2021 6-6.........TWO more wins
FSU in 2020 3-6 , 2021 6-6......DOUBLE their win total

We keep talking ( mostly ) about talent upgrades, but it appears that we may also be undergoing coaching that needs to get up to speed with the rest of the conference.
Not to say that eventually they won't improve substantially, but so far I don't see a lot of evidence that our coordinators are making impressive improvements in taking some better talent
and translating it to better PERFORMANCE on the field. Apparently CFN doesn't really expect much of a jump in that either
Let's face it - we will never recruit Grandma Talent at Tech ! We MUST HAVE excellent coaches that can "coach up" players to play smart , clean football ......sharper focus, less mental mistakes, better fundamentals, less penalties, above average special teams, good game day coaching with timely scheme adjustments and clock management. I don't think seeing the improvements I listed will necessarily guarantee more wins, but they would sure be excellent indicators that we are on the right track.
What say you ??
Win more than three or four games then it might mean something. As for "Grandma Talent" that was all the rage among Florida fans when Ron Zook recruited great classes and proceeded to get waxed by Ole Miss and Mississippi State. Talent alone will not get the job done.
 
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