Goose interviewing at Alabama

[JacketFromUGA]

I think Jimbo is under Terry Bowden with a slight under Saban. He only coached under Saban at LSU for 4 years

 

[Techster]

No way you can put Kiffin under Saban. I would put Kiffin under Carroll's coaching tree.

Coaches can be under multiple trees.

 

[Skeptic]

Forgot about Jimbo. I would put Kiffin under Carroll also.

While I find arrogance vastly irritating, i really am anxious to see how he does down in Boca, and if he has learned anything at all about the personalities of coaching. Based on his departure, probably not, and he might be out of chances.

 

[zhavenor]

Coaches can be under multiple trees.

I generally agree but Kiffin was a head 3 times, Raiders, Tennessee and USC, before spending 2 years under Saban. Its not like Saban or anyone can say the he molded Kiffin which is what I think of when you start meaning he is part of his tree. Chryst ,for example, at Wisconsin could be put under Alvarez, Bielema and Riley of which I would have no problem with.

 

[Techster]

I generally agree but Kiffin was a head 3 times, Raiders, Tennessee and USC, before spending 2 years under Saban. Its not like Saban or anyone can say the he molded Kiffin which is what I think of when you start meaning he is part of his tree. Chryst ,for example, at Wisconsin could be put under Alvarez, Bielema and Riley of which I would have no problem with.

Well, when you say "molded", one of the biggest reasons Kiffin said he went to work for Saban was to learn the "Saban way" to run a program. Kiffin was actually more influenced by Norm Chow than he was influenced by Pete Carroll. Yes, Carroll was the HC at USC, but Carroll was not overly involved with the offense. Kiffin worked his way up under Chow.

 

[zhavenor]

Well, when you say "molded", one of the biggest reasons Kiffin said he went to work for Saban was to learn the "Saban way" to run a program. Kiffin was actually more influenced by Norm Chow than he was influenced by Pete Carroll. Yes, Carroll was the HC at USC, but Carroll was not overly involved with the offense. Kiffin worked his way up under Chow.

You know very well that's not how coaching trees work. By that logic any coach that goes to see a seminar for coaching by another coach or goes to another program in the spring to see how they do things would be could be claimed as a branch of that tree which would mean that they are all under one another and the whole thing is pointless. Before you say anything no I did not just put up a straw man. Also just because he went to Bama to see how Saban does something does not mean he actually is going to use any of it.

 

[zhavenor]

Well, when you say "molded", one of the biggest reasons Kiffin said he went to work for Saban was to learn the "Saban way" to run a program. Kiffin was actually more influenced by Norm Chow than he was influenced by Pete Carroll. Yes, Carroll was the HC at USC, but Carroll was not overly involved with the offense. Kiffin worked his way up under Chow.

Sorry for being obstinate. I had a bad week.

 

[Techster]

You know very well that's not how coaching trees work. By that logic any coach that goes to see a seminar for coaching by another coach or goes to another program in the spring to see how they do things would be could be claimed as a branch of that tree which would mean that they are all under one another and the whole thing is pointless. Before you say anything no I did not just put up a straw man. Also just because he went to Bama to see how Saban does something does not mean he actually is going to use any of it.

Coaching trees are fluid. Very few coaching trees are "pure". Some on here want to attribute Jim McElwain to Saban, but he did a lot of his work pre Saban (For John L Smith at Louisville, and for another coach at Montana before that). Jimbo Fisher? Got his coaching break with Terry Bowden at Samford, then followed him to Auburn. He also made another stop at Cincy before joining Saban at LSU.

Do you really want to equate a coach going to a seminar to another coach serving 2 full years under a HC as an offensive coordinator? If you don't see the difference in "logic" of that, then why are you even trying to argue this?

Whether you agree or not, once a coach becomes part of a staff, they ultimately are part of the HC's coaching tree from that point forward. IMO, at that point it becomes how much of an influence that HC has on the other assistant coach. In the coaching world, you look at philosophies and schemes and how it's related up the branches. In that sense, Kiffin is more closely related to Norm Chow than he is to Carroll or Saban. By your measure of "just because he went to Bama to see how Saban does something does not mean he actually is going to use any of it"...well, Kiffin pretty much blew up the Carroll playbook at every stop so does that eliminate him from the coaching tree?

BTW, to illustrate my point that coaches can be part of multiple trees (and this is dated):

 

[zhavenor]

Coaching trees are fluid. Very few coaching trees are "pure". Some on here want to attribute Jim McElwain to Saban, but he did a lot of his work pre Saban (For John L Smith at Louisville, and for another coach at Montana before that). Jimbo Fisher? Got his coaching break with Terry Bowden at Samford, then followed him to Auburn. He also made another stop at Cincy before joining Saban at LSU.

Do you really want to equate a coach going to a seminar to another coach serving 2 full years under a HC as an offensive coordinator? If you don't see the difference in "logic" of that, then why are you even trying to argue this?

Whether you agree or not, once a coach becomes part of a staff, they ultimately are part of the HC's coaching tree from that point forward. IMO, at that point it becomes how much of an influence that HC has on the other assistant coach. In the coaching world, you look at philosophies and schemes and how it's related up the branches. In that sense, Kiffin is more closely related to Norm Chow than he is to Carroll or Saban. By your measure of "just because he went to Bama to see how Saban does something does not mean he actually is going to use any of it"...well, Kiffin pretty much blew up the Carroll playbook at every stop so does that eliminate him from the coaching tree?

BTW, to illustrate my point that coaches can be part of multiple trees (and this is dated):

View attachment 2271

You of course are correct. I was just being overly argumentative. I do there must be a better way to determine it with clearer defined of who should be entailed in the coaching. Honestly that is me just being anal about that sort of thing. Sorry about doing that to you.

 

[Skeptic]

You of course are correct. I was just being overly argumentative. I do there must be a better way to determine it with clearer defined of who should be entailed in the coaching. Honestly that is me just being anal about that sort of thing. Sorry about doing that to you.

You were using an alternate set of facts.

 

[Techster]

You of course are correct. I was just being overly argumentative. I do there must be a better way to determine it with clearer defined of who should be entailed in the coaching. Honestly that is me just being anal about that sort of thing. Sorry about doing that to you.

LOL....no worries. All in fun.

 

[presjacket]

Coaching trees are fluid. Very few coaching trees are "pure". Some on here want to attribute Jim McElwain to Saban, but he did a lot of his work pre Saban (For John L Smith at Louisville, and for another coach at Montana before that). Jimbo Fisher? Got his coaching break with Terry Bowden at Samford, then followed him to Auburn. He also made another stop at Cincy before joining Saban at LSU.

Do you really want to equate a coach going to a seminar to another coach serving 2 full years under a HC as an offensive coordinator? If you don't see the difference in "logic" of that, then why are you even trying to argue this?

Whether you agree or not, once a coach becomes part of a staff, they ultimately are part of the HC's coaching tree from that point forward. IMO, at that point it becomes how much of an influence that HC has on the other assistant coach. In the coaching world, you look at philosophies and schemes and how it's related up the branches. In that sense, Kiffin is more closely related to Norm Chow than he is to Carroll or Saban. By your measure of "just because he went to Bama to see how Saban does something does not mean he actually is going to use any of it"...well, Kiffin pretty much blew up the Carroll playbook at every stop so does that eliminate him from the coaching tree?

BTW, to illustrate my point that coaches can be part of multiple trees (and this is dated):

View attachment 2271

Wait, does this attached image say that David Cutcliffe is the coaching grandson of Will Muschamp? (It's really hard to read.)

 

[chewybaka]

Coaching trees are fluid. Very few coaching trees are "pure". Some on here want to attribute Jim McElwain to Saban, but he did a lot of his work pre Saban (For John L Smith at Louisville, and for another coach at Montana before that). Jimbo Fisher? Got his coaching break with Terry Bowden at Samford, then followed him to Auburn. He also made another stop at Cincy before joining Saban at LSU.

Do you really want to equate a coach going to a seminar to another coach serving 2 full years under a HC as an offensive coordinator? If you don't see the difference in "logic" of that, then why are you even trying to argue this?

Whether you agree or not, once a coach becomes part of a staff, they ultimately are part of the HC's coaching tree from that point forward. IMO, at that point it becomes how much of an influence that HC has on the other assistant coach. In the coaching world, you look at philosophies and schemes and how it's related up the branches. In that sense, Kiffin is more closely related to Norm Chow than he is to Carroll or Saban. By your measure of "just because he went to Bama to see how Saban does something does not mean he actually is going to use any of it"...well, Kiffin pretty much blew up the Carroll playbook at every stop so does that eliminate him from the coaching tree?

BTW, to illustrate my point that coaches can be part of multiple trees (and this is dated):

View attachment 2271

Interesting diagram...Need to wrap my head around it with a bit more than a glance...