Georgia Tech vs Washington State - Stats Comparison

[Techster]

Another interesting slice would be to compare the recruiting classes. Quickly observing their classes, their average falls relatively in line with where we are, but they tend to sign a couple more top prospects than we do. In other words, they may be able to find their 8-9 most important play makers more consistently than Tech.

Albeit- a very different system and school, attracting different talent.

They're an interesting and enjoyable team to watch this year.

Goes to my point that there are other offenses out there besides the flex option that can maximize talent to help compete with factories. Choices are not just Flex Option, Flex Option, and Flex Option.

Would be curious to see the affects of the Air Raid at a school like GT. I think it's good offense that would do well on the field and with recruiting.

 

[ibeattetris]

Goes to my point that there are other offenses out there besides the flex option that can maximize talent to help compete with factories. Choices are not just Flex Option, Flex Option, and Flex Option.

Would be curious to see the affects of the Air Raid at a school like GT. I think it's good offense that would do well on the field and with recruiting.

The only "factory" they've beaten this year is Oregon. Don't get me wrong, I like Mike Leach, and I think the air raid is a great scheme, but we'd have faired very well against their schedule so far as well (thought I doubt not 7-1 given are turnover issues).

 

[Techster]

The only "factory" they've beaten this year is Oregon. Don't get me wrong, I like Mike Leach, and I think the air raid is a great scheme, but we'd have faired very well against their schedule so far as well (thought I doubt not 7-1 given are turnover issues).

Althought not "factory", they also beat #16 Utah, Stanford (nerd factory!...they're 5-3). They lost to USC, which in hindsight is now a bad loss for them, but in terms of talent WSU is not even in the same neighborhood. Stanford typically recruits 2-3 tiers better than WSU, and UTAH usually recruits a tier better than WSU on average.

Not saying Air Raid is the end all be all, but the point is there are other systems out there that would do well at GT.

I still say whoever combines Air Raid and Flex Option on this level will be king.

Bonus Tidbit: How are Mike Leach and CPJ tied together? Tennessee. Mike Leach verbally agreed to a contract with UT, then the powers that be nixed that. CPJ, as all know, put feelers out for the UT job and didn't even get a courtesy return call.

 

[ibeattetris]

Washington is at -1 on turnover margin while Georgia Tech is at +4. Its part of the 'when it rains it pours' issue. When we don't score a lot, don't slow teams down, have problems with turnovers, it all seems to happen at the same time. Our scoring margin this year is something like +11 points per game. I'm not going to look it up, but I bet there aren't many teams anywhere near 4-4 who have outscored their opponents like that. Its feast or famine with us this year.

I love that our D is getting turnovers, leading to the +4 margin. I was specifically referring to our offense numbers. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

As of 10/24

Rk Team W-L OFEI OE Rk ODS Rk OAY Rk OFD Rk OTD Rk OTF Rk OBC Rk OTO Rk
4 Washington State 5-1 3.54 3.57 4 0.524 5 0.608 5 0.825 7 0.46 4 0.558 6 0.762 7 0.111 67
11 Georgia Tech 2-4 3.14 3.06 10 0.452 14 0.562 15 0.758 39 0.419 8 0.553 7 0.726 21 0.129 86

If to look at the raw numbers, we are performing pretty similarly across the board. The biggest difference comes from OBC (how many times we don't three and out) and OTO (percent of drives we turn it over).

I am don't fully understand what ODS is

the percentage of offensive drives that generate value greater than the starting field position value of the drive

But I would guess that duke and clemson spending half the game in our backfield hurt that stat.

My favorite stat from this is OTD. That is percentage of drives we score a touch down when we get at least a first down. 42% of drives are a touch down when we get a first down. Since seeing this stat I pay attention to the first play of our drive as that is a big indicator of our offenses success.

 

[ibeattetris]

Althought not "factory", they also beat #16 Utah, Stanford (nerd factory!...they're 5-3). They lost to USC, which in hindsight is now a bad loss for them, but in terms of talent WSU is not even in the same neighborhood. Stanford typically recruits 2-3 tiers better than WSU, and UTAH usually recruits a tier better than WSU on average.

Not saying Air Raid is the end all be all, but the point is there are other systems out there that would do well at GT.

I still say whoever combines Air Raid and Flex Option on this level will be king.

Bonus Tidbit: How are Mike Leach and CPJ tied together? Tennessee. Mike Leach verbally agreed to a contract with UT, then the powers that be nixed that. CPJ, as all know, put feelers out for the UT job and didn't even get a courtesy return call.

The flexbone is a passing formation that can run the full run and shoot scheme. The issue is most likely practice time as opposed to the offense not being capable of it.

As for Utah, we will see how it plays out. PAC is really really down this year (not Utah or WSU's fault but it is what it is).

I like the Air Raid. I just don't want to change the offense for the sake of changing it. If we change it, I also would like to see our Athletic Department begin to heavily invest in the program and prove it wants to contend for championships.

 

[alagold]

Interesting to compare a team on the other side of the offensive spectrum. They rank next to last nationally in rushing offense, and Georgia Tech ranks 1st nationally. They rank #1 nationally in passing offense, and Georgia Tech ranks 128th out of 130th.

Hopefully Tech puts 60 on North Carolina this weekend and moves up into the top 15 and retains the #1 rushing offense.

Sucks that the option just doesn't work though.... I mean, you can't have a top 20 offense in 2018 running the option, right? (insert sarcasm)

Georgia Tech
41
38
19
21
63
66
14
49

Average = 38.9 (#19 nationally)

Washington State (7-1, top 15 team)
41
31
59
36
28
56
34
41

Average = 40.8 (#12 nationally)

I've watched WS--they also play DEF there at a pretty fair level.

 

[Techster]

The flexbone is a passing formation that can run the full run and shoot scheme. The issue is most likely practice time as opposed to the offense not being capable of it.

As for Utah, we will see how it plays out. PAC is really really down this year (not Utah or WSU's fault but it is what it is).

I like the Air Raid. I just don't want to change the offense for the sake of changing it. If we change it, I also would like to see our Athletic Department begin to heavily invest in the program and prove it wants to contend for championships.

I know. I've touched on it ad nauseum. Trust me when I tell you, CPJ has the plays and schemes in his playbook to change the complexion and narrative of our program. His stint in Hawaii when he had a QB pass for almost 3,000 yards speaks to it.

My problem isn't with the on field production of this offense (for the most part), it's with the baggage this offense carries off the field in terms of perception and recruiting. I like CPJ, and I would actually LOVE to see it at a factory school or in the NFL. I just think he's nearing the end of his time at GT, and I hope it ends well and not with GT being set back years because we held on too long hoping CPJ can turn it around.

 

[ATL1]

Goes to my point that there are other offenses out there besides the flex option that can maximize talent to help compete with factories. Choices are not just Flex Option, Flex Option, and Flex Option.

Would be curious to see the affects of the Air Raid at a school like GT. I think it's good offense that would do well on the field and with recruiting.

Please, no more gimmick offenses.

 

[GTNavyNuke]

Looks to me like a HUGE issue here is consistency. Three times GT was held to 21 points or fewer...all three L's. Wazzou was held below 31 points only once...their only L. So, forget the averages....we simply have not been consistent while WSU has been. If we had scored at least 31 in all but 1 game, I doubt that CPJ would be in hot water and I doubt that the message boards would be all fired up with the "our opponents have figured it out" criticism.

Our opponents have figured out that if they can blow up the OL and live in our backfield that the FlexBone doesn't work well. Plus when we have to pass we don't do a good job this year.

I agree, if we were 7-1 CPJ would not be in hot water. But losses to USF, Pitt and Duke did that.

FEI and S&P+ both rank Georgia Tech and Washington State as top offenses in the country.

The difference is they've held 5 teams to <= 24 points. We've only done that to 3 teams.

They're 3-1 in games decided by 14 points or less. We're 0-3.

This all tells me what we kind of already knew - our team has a hard time winning reasonably close games and our defense rarely outright wins us games.

Think it also has anything to do with the forgotten phase of the game? (Hint we are 121 of 130. Washington State is 77. Not great but competent.)

 

[RedPete]

I was looking for a better way to evaluate how well a TO works and found some comments made by Ken Niumatolo. In short, the TO is supposed to a) put up a massive number of rushing yards which, because it is rushing, is very low risk, b) control the TOP and in turn, slow the other team's tempo down, c) have a Red Zone Efficiency > 80%, and finally, limit the opponent's possessions to 8 max.

We are doing very well on rushing. Check. Our average TOP is only 32 min, we are not controlling the clock as well as we could. Our Red Zone Efficiency is 4 games over 80% and 4 games under, so not a lot of scoring consistency, and finally ... our opponents are 12-13 possessions per game. Enough to outscore us.

Holding the opponent to 8 possessions you speak of is clearly not a realistic benchmark. Look no further than the dominating performances vs Louisville (11) possessions and Virginia Tech (9). Tech held the ball for over 42 minutes vs VT and it still wasn’t enough to limit them to your so-called goal of 8.

 

[Vespidae]

Holding the opponent to 8 possessions you speak of is clearly not a realistic benchmark. Look no further than the dominating performances vs Louisville (11) possessions and Virginia Tech (9). Tech held the ball for over 42 minutes vs VT and it still wasn’t enough to limit them to your so-called goal of 8.

I didn’t come up with the goal of 8. Ken Niumtalo did.

 

[RedPete]

I didn’t come up with the goal of 8. Ken Niumtalo did.

Do you see what I’m saying though? If a passless run-domination like the Louisville or VT game wasn’t enough to limit the opponent to 8 possessions them nothing is. (Heck Harvin only punted once right?) Maybe you read it wrong. Either way, it’s obviously unfair or inaccurate to criticize our offense for allowing them a measly ~10 possessions.

 

[RamblinWreck92]

Althought not "factory", they also beat #16 Utah, Stanford (nerd factory!...they're 5-3). They lost to USC, which in hindsight is now a bad loss for them, but in terms of talent WSU is not even in the same neighborhood. Stanford typically recruits 2-3 tiers better than WSU, and UTAH usually recruits a tier better than WSU on average.

Not saying Air Raid is the end all be all, but the point is there are other systems out there that would do well at GT.

I still say whoever combines Air Raid and Flex Option on this level will be king.

Bonus Tidbit: How are Mike Leach and CPJ tied together? Tennessee. Mike Leach verbally agreed to a contract with UT, then the powers that be nixed that. CPJ, as all know, put feelers out for the UT job and didn't even get a courtesy return call.

No top-tier program (in terms of $$$ and attendance) wants the CPJ offense nor its disciples coaching their teams. It's why Monken and Niumatolo aren't getting hired even though they are coaching Army/Navy about as well as a coach can in 2018.

 

[steebu]

I know. I've touched on it ad nauseum. Trust me when I tell you, CPJ has the plays and schemes in his playbook to change the complexion and narrative of our program. His stint in Hawaii when he had a QB pass for almost 3,000 yards speaks to it.

People often ask, "Geez, why doesn't he go shotgun? Why doesn't he throw more?" I honestly think it comes down to one thing: practice time. We've already seen reports that Taquon and others have had to leave practice early (or come late) because of schoolwork. And we also know that PJ doesn't use the full 20 hours of practice time because school keeps our guys busy. For all the, "Stop using school as an excuse" folks I want to climb on my soapbox and slip out of Nice Guy Steebu for a moment: I want to punch you in your stupid face. And then profusely apologize.

Josh Rosen said this while a senior at UCLA:

“Look, football and school don’t go together,” he told Bleacher Report. “They just don’t. Trying to do both is like trying to do two full-time jobs. There are guys who have no business being in school, but they’re here because this is the path to the NFL. There’s no other way.

“Then, there’s the other side that says raise the SAT eligibility requirements. OK, raise the SAT requirement at Alabama and see what kind of team they have. You lose athletes and then the product on the field suffers.”

“Don’t get me started,” said Josh, who most definitely had gotten started. “I love school, but it’s hard. It’s cool because we’re learning more applicable stuff in my major (economics), not just the prerequisite stuff that’s designed to filter out people. But football really dents my ability to take some classes that I need. There are a bunch of classes that are only offered one time. There was a class I had to take this spring but there was a conflict with spring football. So …”
​

Rosen's a smart kid. And if he's saying this while at UCLA, where I'm sure he's minoring in California blondes, what on earth do you think it's like for our kids at GT?

So, @Techster, I fully agree with you on how effective PJ's offense could be but I don't think we'll ever see the full breadth of it because as CPJ once said, "school's real here."

 

[LibertyTurns]

No top-tier program (in terms of $$$ and attendance) wants the CPJ offense nor its disciples coaching their teams. It's why Monken and Niumatolo aren't getting hired even though they are coaching Army/Navy about as well as a coach can in 2018.

Not exactly true.

Niumatalolo turned down Arizona and BYU.

Monken’s had 2 good years at Army. Someone will come calling this year or next if he keeps winning.

Frankly, if it was a choice between an academy and most other places I’d stay at the academy. There’s no better head coaching job anywhere.

 

[Techster]

People often ask, "Geez, why doesn't he go shotgun? Why doesn't he throw more?" I honestly think it comes down to one thing: practice time. We've already seen reports that Taquon and others have had to leave practice early (or come late) because of schoolwork. And we also know that PJ doesn't use the full 20 hours of practice time because school keeps our guys busy. For all the, "Stop using school as an excuse" folks I want to climb on my soapbox and slip out of Nice Guy Steebu for a moment: I want to punch you in your stupid face. And then profusely apologize.

Josh Rosen said this while a senior at UCLA:

“Look, football and school don’t go together,” he told Bleacher Report. “They just don’t. Trying to do both is like trying to do two full-time jobs. There are guys who have no business being in school, but they’re here because this is the path to the NFL. There’s no other way.

“Then, there’s the other side that says raise the SAT eligibility requirements. OK, raise the SAT requirement at Alabama and see what kind of team they have. You lose athletes and then the product on the field suffers.”

“Don’t get me started,” said Josh, who most definitely had gotten started. “I love school, but it’s hard. It’s cool because we’re learning more applicable stuff in my major (economics), not just the prerequisite stuff that’s designed to filter out people. But football really dents my ability to take some classes that I need. There are a bunch of classes that are only offered one time. There was a class I had to take this spring but there was a conflict with spring football. So …”
​

Rosen's a smart kid. And if he's saying this while at UCLA, where I'm sure he's minoring in California blondes, what on earth do you think it's like for our kids at GT?

So, @Techster, I fully agree with you on how effective PJ's offense could be but I don't think we'll ever see the full breadth of it because as CPJ once said, "school's real here."

Oh, I fully agree CPJ could never FULLY implement his playbook here. Probably not at any college for that matter because the option game alone would take up more than the allotted time the NCAA gives teams. Then you talk about getting deep into the RNS part of the offense. No way in hells bells.

That said, what I've said in other threads I fully believe: CPJ could absolutely implement more RNS but dial back the option part of the offense. I think if we can get proficient enough in the RNS, we don't have to get too deep into the option game. Instead of 10 variations of our various running plays, how about we just run 3-5 variations of our CORE option running plays to complement the RnS? Will it be the same offense we've come to identify as CPJ's flexbone offense? No, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Art Briles and his offensive progeny do it to a degree. They use concepts from Air Raid and RnS to set up the run via read option. In fact, they call the offense the Veer and Shoot. They do it to devastating effect...well, they DID, until the scandal. Now the mantel is being carried by his son Kendal at Houston and former OC Philip Montgomery at Tulsa, though Montgomery is having less success. Briles has the #13 OFEI offense in the country at Houston.

 

[RamblinWreck92]

Not exactly true.

Niumatalolo turned down Arizona and BYU.

Monken’s had 2 good years at Army. Someone will come calling this year or next if he keeps winning.

Frankly, if it was a choice between an academy and most other places I’d stay at the academy. There’s no better head coaching job anywhere.

not sure I'd consider BYU a top-tier program. They aren't P5.

Zona's QB prevented Niumatololo from taking that gig, IIRC. It's pretty telling that the admin would rather have some stupid kid QB for 1-2 more years than hire Niumatalolo.

I think the other P5 schools know this offense is very difficult to recruit to and that most fans don't care to watch it for long. UT didn't even return CPJ's phone calls.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

How bout stopping the opponent?

But thats a function of the defense, and not under the offense control. Not that I disagree with you...