General Investing and Economics Discussion - No Politics

[orientalnc]

What would happen if government regulators, due to ransomware payments, announced that trading in cryptocurrency was banned and blocked from internet traffic?

 

[Deleted member 2897]

What would happen if government regulators, due to ransomware payments, announced that trading in cryptocurrency was banned and blocked from internet traffic?

That's certainly 1 of several significant risks. Mining of cryptocurrency is an environmental apocalypse. It also helps people avoid taxes. The Fed/Treasury could also release its own and outlaw everything else it doesn't approve of, since it is the main regulator of currency. Lots of angles of significant risk.

 

[RonJohn]

What would happen if government regulators, due to ransomware payments, announced that trading in cryptocurrency was banned and blocked from internet traffic?

It wouldn't stop cryptocurrency. I have a bitcoin and dogecoin wallet on my computer. I would follow the law, but if I wasn't so inclined a government ban wouldn't physically prevent me from sending or receiving bitcoin or dogecoin. Even if they were to attempt to block the internet traffic, developers would change the ports, addresses, and packets such that they weren't blocked anymore. It would be like whack-a-mole to attempt to stop it. It would look a lot like the music industry going after peer-to-peer sharing networks.

The government could stop cryptocurrency exchanges and prevent people from converting dollars to crypto. The big problem with that would be that the government would basically be making the decision for a company that wanted to pay that they can't pay. It wouldn't stop the ransomware gangs, just further hurt the victims. Also, if a multinational company wanted to pay the fine, they could just purchase crypto in an exchange in a country that still allowed it.

Ransomware is a problem, but I don't think that crypto is necessary for it to exist. Even crypto isn't as anonymous as people believe. Crypto exchanges are completely anonymous. Once you cash out the crypto, it is extremely easy to follow. It would be a public record, in the blockchain, that your crypto was exchanged. Governments can then follow the money trail the same ways they always have. If crypto is exchanged for physical goods, then those can be tracked also. Basically, a person could use ransomware to build up a large stash of crypto, but to do anything of value with it would punch large holes in the anonymity.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

It wouldn't stop cryptocurrency. I have a bitcoin and dogecoin wallet on my computer. I would follow the law, but if I wasn't so inclined a government ban wouldn't physically prevent me from sending or receiving bitcoin or dogecoin. Even if they were to attempt to block the internet traffic, developers would change the ports, addresses, and packets such that they weren't blocked anymore. It would be like whack-a-mole to attempt to stop it. It would look a lot like the music industry going after peer-to-peer sharing networks.

The government could stop cryptocurrency exchanges and prevent people from converting dollars to crypto. The big problem with that would be that the government would basically be making the decision for a company that wanted to pay that they can't pay. It wouldn't stop the ransomware gangs, just further hurt the victims. Also, if a multinational company wanted to pay the fine, they could just purchase crypto in an exchange in a country that still allowed it.

Ransomware is a problem, but I don't think that crypto is necessary for it to exist. Even crypto isn't as anonymous as people believe. Crypto exchanges are completely anonymous. Once you cash out the crypto, it is extremely easy to follow. It would be a public record, in the blockchain, that your crypto was exchanged. Governments can then follow the money trail the same ways they always have. If crypto is exchanged for physical goods, then those can be tracked also. Basically, a person could use ransomware to build up a large stash of crypto, but to do anything of value with it would punch large holes in the anonymity.

The fines and criminal penalties would decimate the main portion of the market.

 

[RonJohn]

The fines and criminal penalties would decimate the main portion of the market.

I don't really look at it as a market. I look at it as an alternate payment system. The value of bitcoin would go down since people can't "trade" it. However, it could still be used to exchange bitcoin between two bitcoin addresses. Ransomware scum were using bitcoin as payment when the value was "valued" at less than $2,500. It would continue if the value goes down, even to almost nothing.

I purchased some dogecoin, but I don't really understand the need for a crypto market. Or at least I don't understand the need for a speculative crypto market. It is an exchange of currency. Exchanging dollars for dogecoin should be no different than exchanging dollars for pesos.

 

[RonJohn]

Not really about investing, but it is about crypto. I didn't see anyone post anything on May 22nd about Bitcoin Pizza Day. They guy that did it says he has no regrets.

Bitcoin Pizza Day 2021: Some interesting facts about this special cryptocurrency day

On May 22, 2010, Laszlo Hanyecz agreed to pay 10,000 Bitcoins for two delivered Papa John's pizzas.

www.moneycontrol.com

 

[Deleted member 2897]

AMC announced plan to dilute the **** out of the stock by issuing new shares. (They’re talking about issuing 500 million new shares which is more than they have outstanding.) That new money (smart at these valuations) will help cover prior losses and liquidity issues. The meme Reddit investors react by continuing to drive the stock higher LOL. It’s like they don’t even understand the world they live in.

AMC stock surges more than 100% to record intraday high, market cap overtakes GameStop

Shares of AMC Entertainment Holdings rallied again on Wednesday, with shares nearly doubling in value as investors on Reddit and other social media platforms piled into the meme stock.

www.yahoo.com

 

[Deleted member 2897]

This will be interesting to watch play out. How do you enforce a 15% income tax rate on a company that shows no profit? 15% of what? EBITDA? This seems like one of those ideas that makes sense to some on paper (not me), but then there is no way to implement it.

G-7 back steps to deter tax dodging by multinational firms

The Group of Seven wealthy democracies have agreed to support a global minimum corporate tax of at least 15% to deter multinational companies from avoiding taxes by stashing profits in low-rate countries.

apnews.com

 

[awbuzz]

This will be interesting to watch play out. How do you enforce a 15% income tax rate on a company that shows no profit? 15% of what? EBITDA? This seems like one of those ideas that makes sense to some on paper (not me), but then there is no way to implement it.

G-7 back steps to deter tax dodging by multinational firms

The Group of Seven wealthy democracies have agreed to support a global minimum corporate tax of at least 15% to deter multinational companies from avoiding taxes by stashing profits in low-rate countries.

apnews.com

Well, it have to be before the tax portion of EBITDA for sure

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Good news for the stock market this weekend. Terrible news for retirees and the middle and working classes. Fed Chairwoman Janet Yellen said inflation has been too low for far too long. Just let that sit in for a minute.

First of all, the notion inflation has been 'low' is ridiculous. Second, since when is inflation ever possibly too 'low'??? Who here by show of hands enjoys when things they buy get more expensive? Good lord these people are ****ing idiots. The good news for equity investors is they will continue to promote deficit spending and high inflation, which will continue to drive people to equities.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Got a new cryptocurrency for you - FLO:

FlourMix USD (FLO-USD) Price, Value, News & History - Yahoo Finance

Find the latest FlourMix USD (FLO-USD) price quote, history, news and other vital information to help you with your cryptocurrency trading and investing.

finance.yahoo.com

Does not require massive energy consumption to generate coins.

I ain't touching it with a 10 foot pole. But I find that value proposition uniquely interesting.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Interesting story today - the feds were able to steal/recover a few million in Bitcoin from the Colonial Pipeline hackers. Makes you wonder why they’ve never used those capabilities before. Also should be a huge “oh ****” moment for hackers.

 

[RonJohn]

Interesting story today - the feds were able to steal/recover a few million in Bitcoin from the Colonial Pipeline hackers. Makes you wonder why they’ve never used those capabilities before. Also should be a huge “oh ****” moment for hackers.

They released no technical detail on what they did. I wouldn't expect them to. I see three possibilities from the information that they have provided:

1. They hacked a computer that is running the wallet that accepted the transaction, copied the wallet and moved the funds to another wallet. This matches their statements most and it matches some reports from a few weeks ago:
2. The funds were moved to a crypto exchange and the US government pressured the exchange to seize the funds. Governments would be able to pressure exchanges to turn over accounts just as they can pressure banks and financial institutions to do so.
3. They are overstating what they have done.

I would guess with the previous reports that DarkSide was under cyber attack that the US government conducted or orchestrated the attack and was able to gain access to their computer systems. If that is the case, then losing a few million dollars is probably not at the top of their concerns. With access to their computer systems, the government could possibly get enough information to identify them.

However it is still possible that, much like the FBI's press conference announcing a crack down on the muddy side of college basketball, they are blustering and touting without much substance.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

They released no technical detail on what they did. I wouldn't expect them to. I see three possibilities from the information that they have provided:

1. They hacked a computer that is running the wallet that accepted the transaction, copied the wallet and moved the funds to another wallet. This matches their statements most and it matches some reports from a few weeks ago:
2. The funds were moved to a crypto exchange and the US government pressured the exchange to seize the funds. Governments would be able to pressure exchanges to turn over accounts just as they can pressure banks and financial institutions to do so.
3. They are overstating what they have done.

I would guess with the previous reports that DarkSide was under cyber attack that the US government conducted or orchestrated the attack and was able to gain access to their computer systems. If that is the case, then losing a few million dollars is probably not at the top of their concerns. With access to their computer systems, the government could possibly get enough information to identify them.

However it is still possible that, much like the FBI's press conference announcing a crack down on the muddy side of college basketball, they are blustering and touting without much substance.

On the national news, they reported the FBI guessed their password. Probably just reporting the lie they were given.

 

[LibertyTurns]

Makes you wonder why they’ve never used those capabilities before.

Maybe they have. Some things are better unadvertised.

 

[RonJohn]

Got a new cryptocurrency for you - FLO:

FlourMix USD (FLO-USD) Price, Value, News & History - Yahoo Finance

Find the latest FlourMix USD (FLO-USD) price quote, history, news and other vital information to help you with your cryptocurrency trading and investing.

finance.yahoo.com

Does not require massive energy consumption to generate coins.

I ain't touching it with a 10 foot pole. But I find that value proposition uniquely interesting.

I took a look at it. I am not sure how you decided that it doesn't require massive energy consumption. It uses the same mining process as Dogecoin. There aren't many people using it, and there aren't many people mining it. The big difference is in the difficulty level. Doge difficulty is at about 6 million. Bitcoin difficulty is at about 21 trillion. Flo is about 700. If more people start mining it, the difficulty level will increase. I ran a miner last night, but didn't get any.

I also couldn't find an exchange that will trade it. I am not sure how they arrive at a valuation. You can exchange Flo from wallet to wallet, but I haven't found a way to exchange it for a different crytpo or for government backed currency, unless you can find another person with a Flo wallet and make a trade with them.

I'll run the miner for a few days to see if I ever am able to get some. I am only using a PC, so odds are slim even at that low difficulty level.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

I took a look at it. I am not sure how you decided that it doesn't require massive energy consumption. It uses the same mining process as Dogecoin. There aren't many people using it, and there aren't many people mining it. The big difference is in the difficulty level. Doge difficulty is at about 6 million. Bitcoin difficulty is at about 21 trillion. Flo is about 700. If more people start mining it, the difficulty level will increase. I ran a miner last night, but didn't get any.

I also couldn't find an exchange that will trade it. I am not sure how they arrive at a valuation. You can exchange Flo from wallet to wallet, but I haven't found a way to exchange it for a different crytpo or for government backed currency, unless you can find another person with a Flo wallet and make a trade with them.

I'll run the miner for a few days to see if I ever am able to get some. I am only using a PC, so odds are slim even at that low difficulty level.

I probably read a clickbait article. It spoke of a couple cryptocurrency options that wouldn’t be ruinous to the environment…mentioned a few other things. I didn’t pay much attention or research much, so it could have even been an ad disguised as an article.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Looks like some butthurt person inside the IRS broke a number of federal laws and leaked tax information to the media. And looks like the media has no problem reporting criminally obtained information. And, not shocking at all, the extreme level of ignorance the average person has is amazing. We have income taxes. We don't have wealth taxes. If Jeff Bezos for example has $100B on paper in Amazon stock and the stock price doubles, he is now worth $200B but there is no tax liability for that until he sells something. So he has no tax liability on it. Most of these guys are not idiots, and take full compensation on stock. Mark Zuckerberg for example, earns a $1 salary. Elon Musk doesn't even earn a salary. The extreme level of envy, jealousy, butthurt, and ignorance the average American has apparently has no limit.

Elon Musk Paid $0 in Federal Income Tax in 2018: Report

You might not be as rich as Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos, but you probably paid more in taxes than they did.

gizmodo.com

 

[Deleted member 2897]

More meme stock action:

Clover Health Roars to Record as Short Sellers Get Burned

(Bloomberg) -- Clover Health Inc., a health insurer backed by venture capitalist Chamath Palihapitiya, was swept up in meme-stock mania on Tuesday, posting a second day of wild gains as retail investors banded together to punish short-sellers betting against the company.Clover rallied 86% to...

finance.yahoo.com

When will institutions realize that a ton of people are getting paid to sit at home and trade stocks all day? Sure many of these companies are just dead orgs walking, but I wouldn't bet against a continuous tide of free money like that.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

CPI data just released - 5.0%. And that's even using the diluted approach. This is a disaster.

It looks like the Fed's approach of letting inflation run rampant hoping it takes care of itself has now gone beyond the point of no return and they are all in on that. This is a net positive for equities in the short run. But the more unsustainably hot things run, the faster they could fall. I think its too late to increase interest rates at this point. The best we can hope for is some sort of sequester on the spending side to try and slow things down, but I wouldn't put any confidence in that hope. I don't get the sense anybody thinks there's actually a risk or a problem here.

Make money while you can!