General Investing and Economics Discussion - No Politics

[Deleted member 2897]

These programs are not being poorly run, except for there being too much fraud in Medicare. The shortfalls are largely due to people living longer and the population aging.

That’s poorly running them. If we are taking in a certain amount of money, why are we paying out 3x that amount? It’s actually quite simple to tweak the benefits each year based on actuary tables and cash flow. But we’re stupid idiots and just pilfer the treasury. It’s the worst run program in the entire government. By far.

 

[bobongo]

That’s poorly running them. If we are taking in a certain amount of money, why are we paying out 3x that amount? It’s actually quite simple to tweak the benefits each year based on actuary tables and cash flow. But we’re stupid idiots and just pilfer the treasury. It’s the worst run program in the entire government. By far.

No, it isn't. Social Security is easily fixed by doubling the cap on SS taxes, so that wealthier people pay more into it. Same with Medicare. They're not properly funded to meet the needs of an aging population. I'm on SS and Medicare, and the programs are run very well from where I sit. Republicans will refuse to properly fund a program and then call it a disaster. That's their modus operandi.

 

[bobongo]

It’s not the governments money, it’s the shareholders. They can light it on fire if they want. We had the highest tax rates in the world, and it was costing us a ton of jobs.

Furthermore, our tax revenue is INCREASING at the rate of inflation and is at all time highs. We have bad deficits because we’re increasing spending 4x the rate of inflation.

Inflation is low.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

No, it isn't. Social Security is easily fixed by doubling the cap on SS taxes, so that wealthier people pay more into it. Same with Medicare. They're not properly funded to meet the needs of an aging population. I'm on SS and Medicare, and the programs are run very well from where I sit. Republicans will refuse to properly fund a program and then call it a disaster. That's their modus operandi.

If I gave someone money, and over the course of its investment life it grew to 1 dollar, and then they turned around and gave me 3 dollars, I would think it was a good deal too.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Inflation is low.

Yes, inflation is about 2% per year. So tax revenue increasing 2% per year is healthy. Why we're growing spending 9% per year is beyond me. Its ridiculously pathetic, but see the previous discussion on Medicare and Social Security. They're just pilfering the treasury.

 

[bobongo]

It’s not the governments money, it’s the shareholders. They can light it on fire if they want. We had the highest tax rates in the world, and it was costing us a ton of jobs.

Furthermore, our tax revenue is INCREASING at the rate of inflation and is at all time highs. We have bad deficits because we’re increasing spending 4x the rate of inflation.

Tax revenues have increased every year since 2009, but 2018 was the smallest increase. Had it not been for the tax cuts, the increase would have been larger.

 

[bobongo]

It’s not the governments money, it’s the shareholders. They can light it on fire if they want.

Yeah, they can light it on fire. But after they do and bad times roll around, they had better not come back begging for more.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Yeah, they can light it on fire. But after they do and bad times roll around, they had better not come back begging for more.

Right. We have bankruptcy laws. Banks, airlines, and others always have that as a legal option. I detest the notion of bailouts, because it typically means individuals and companies weren't maintaining several months of savings in case of an emergency. There are limits to that notion in a war time scenario like this. But if the worst of it passes in 1-2 months, hopefully we're back to normal a few months after.

 

[bobongo]

Yes, inflation is about 2% per year. So tax revenue increasing 2% per year is healthy. Why we're growing spending 9% per year is beyond me. Its ridiculously pathetic, but see the previous discussion on Medicare and Social Security. They're just pilfering the treasury.

One thing I'll point out about Medicare and Social Security is that in the last downturn, every segment of the middle class and poor suffered except retired people. Retired folks made it through just fine. It was a roaring success during those hard times and serves as a smoothing out of economic ups and downs. This will be no exception. Retired people (as long as they can avoid the virus) will get through this mess better than any segment of the general population.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

One thing I'll point out about Medicare and Social Security is that in the last downturn, every segment of the middle class and poor suffered except retired people. Retired folks made it through just fine. It was a roaring success during those hard times and serves as a smoothing out of economic ups and downs. This will be no exception. Retired people (as long as they can avoid the virus) will get through this mess better than any segment of the general population.

As they should. They're not working (so they have no job to lose), have significantly smaller expenses, and are living off their life savings.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Damn. State unemployment websites crashing.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...nt-websites-crash-applications-surge-n1162731

 

[bobongo]

As they should. They're not working (so they have no job to lose), have significantly smaller expenses, and are living off their life savings.

And as they do, thanks largely to Social Security and Medicare. The reason Social Security was established in the first place was in response to the terrible poverty old people experienced during the Depression.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

And as they do, thanks largely to Social Security and Medicare. The reason Social Security was established in the first place was in response to the terrible poverty old people experienced during the Depression.

And yet nobody has still learned to start saving money. Sad. We never learn.

 

[bobongo]

And yet nobody has still learned to start saving money. Sad. We never learn.

Lots of people do save money, and lots don't. Corporations seem to never catch on, because they don't have to. It's like the banks - it doesn't matter if they throw money away on bad investments, because good ol' Uncle Sam is always there to the rescue. That's why capitalism needs to be regulated. Otherwise, what we have disaster capitalism just waiting to happen.

 

[Techster]

I've lost count how many times this has happened in the last week...

 

[Deleted member 2897]

I've lost count how many times this has happened in the last week...

Eleventeen.

 

[Techster]

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Sees Dow crossing into the 18000s...

I have a sad for our country and for all the people in need and what must be a desperate situation for so many. Having lived through the great recession, dot com explosion, and I still even remember the 1987 market crash - I remember the gas lines all the way down the street before that - WE WILL COME BACK. We ALWAYS do. We ALWAYS will. And every single one of these times it was pure desperation at some point, and many people thought that we were done as a country forever. We're not. Even if our economy crashes -50%, next year we'll have an easy hurdle to beat. And even the smallest improvement will build momentum in the media and in people. It always happens. We will see great days again. I love all you guys and I hope you're managing this time okay both financially and emotionally.

 

[cyclejacket]

Republicans will refuse to properly fund a program and then call it a disaster. That's their modus operandi.

I'm remembering all of those fixes to SS and Medicare done from 2008 to 2016 when Democrats had the WH and both houses of Congress part of the time. Because Democrats have always demonized Republicans on these 3rd rail programs nothing will get done unless they quit using political scare tactics and offer solutions. Thanks to no leadership from Obama, Reid or Pelosi to champion workable solutions. Nothing got done. If you live to 2033 you'll enjoy a 25% cut in benefits and I'm willing to bet you'll see $3 trillion deficits as well.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

I'm remembering all of those fixes to SS and Medicare done from 2008 to 2016 when Democrats had the WH and both houses of Congress part of the time. Because Democrats have always demonized Republicans on these 3rd rail programs nothing will get done unless they quit using political scare tactics and offer solutions. Thanks to no leadership from Obama, Reid or Pelosi to champion workable solutions. Nothing got done. If you live to 2033 you'll enjoy a 25% cut in benefits and I'm willing to bet you'll see $3 trillion deficits as well.

They all have plenty of money. Every single year we know how many beneficiaries we have, and what money is coming into the system. Every year we should tweak the benefits a bit to be relatively in balance. If that's not enough money, then pass a tax increase or change to the structure of the system. Its not rocket science. There's simply no excuse for paying out 3 times what people have put in, which is what we're doing right now in Medicare. A kindergartner could do math better.