Faulkner Raise

[SOWEGA Jacket]

There was a time (not all that long ago) that UGA wasn't in the discussion for championships. Kirby took over at UGA and took the recruiting from good to great - a few years later, they were on top of the world.

I say this to point out that the uptick in recruiting seemed to matter. But it also shows that a school's situation can be changed by putting the right leadership in place. Pre-Kirby, uGA was a quality program that was always arms length away from truly competing for a national title. With Kirby they are kings. Things can change.

Dr. Cabrera has changed the level of commitment to athletics. Key is changing the culture of the football program. If Key can continue this trajectory, we could begin to play big boy football again.

I'm not pretending that we'll be in national title game next year - but there is a clear path to success and we appear to be well on our way. How far this path goes, I dunno. But I'm here for the ride!

UGA is not a good example because Richt was winning double digits every year while recruiting in the top 8. And they still directed him to leave because they were not satisfied. If you remember, before Kirby signed it was reported he demanded certain things for recruiting and his staff because he knew exactly how Bama was doing it. Kirby forced UGA to do the things I’m talking about before he signed on. And they agreed and are now a top 1-2 program because Kirby forced them to do it.

Key has already signed on so he can’t demand much because the only card he has to play is to threaten to leave. Key is our Richt. He has stabilized the program and has it going in the right direction with what he has to work with. Unlike Richt who was capped at 10 wins, Key is basically capped at 8 wins because GT has not committed to him to recruit the same pool of players.

Having Cabrera on board is nice, but unless he redirects deep money, like he does for academic endeavors, it’s just a feel good story with little substance. We are still recruiting at the same level so it doesn’t appear Cabrera has given Key funds for 5 star type players. I definitely believe Key is using what he learned at Bama to build this program so I do think we will get back to the Johnson level of winning when we have a solid QB and get a few bounces. But, until the school actually commits to buying high end players regardless of academics we will continue to be where we have been. I’ll know Cabrera and GT are serious when we sign a 5 star DLineman who reads at a 6th grade level and holds a hat picking ceremony live on the local news of his hometown. That’s what it takes to win double digit games these days. I wish it wasn’t but we aren’t winning the conference these days with a bunch of guys with 3.5 GPA’s.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

That’s a really good point.

The circular logic of 1) Blue-blood football program wants certain players, so those players must be highly rated, 2) said highly rated players go to said blue-blood program, 3) blue-blood program gets favorable rankings and access, 4) highly rated players on highly-ranked blue-blood team win Championships, 5) we logic out that only teams with highly rated players can win Championships.

Playoff expansion will allow a few more non-blue-blood programs to have access, and they may occasionally prove themselves worthy.

I totally agree which is why I’ve wanted an expanded playoff for decades. Thankfully it will continue to expand due to money. I give this new 12 team playoff a shelf life of 8 years until it’s expanded well into the 20’s. Too much money is being left untapped by desperate fanbases. It will be awesome and teams like GT will have a chance every 7-8 years when we put it together.

 

[billga99]

UGA is not a good example because Richt was winning double digits every year while recruiting in the top 8. And they still directed him to leave because they were not satisfied. If you remember, before Kirby signed it was reported he demanded certain things for recruiting and his staff because he knew exactly how Bama was doing it. Kirby forced UGA to do the things I’m talking about before he signed on. And they agreed and are now a top 1-2 program because Kirby forced them to do it.

Key has already signed on so he can’t demand much because the only card he has to play is to threaten to leave. Key is our Richt. He has stabilized the program and has it going in the right direction with what he has to work with. Unlike Richt who was capped at 10 wins, Key is basically capped at 8 wins because GT has not committed to him to recruit the same pool of players.

Having Cabrera on board is nice, but unless he redirects deep money, like he does for academic endeavors, it’s just a feel good story with little substance. We are still recruiting at the same level so it doesn’t appear Cabrera has given Key funds for 5 star type players. I definitely believe Key is using what he learned at Bama to build this program so I do think we will get back to the Johnson level of winning when we have a solid QB and get a few bounces. But, until the school actually commits to buying high end players regardless of academics we will continue to be where we have been. I’ll know Cabrera and GT are serious when we sign a 5 star DLineman who reads at a 6th grade level and holds a hat picking ceremony live on the local news of his hometown. That’s what it takes to win double digit games these days. I wish it wasn’t but we aren’t winning the conference these days with a bunch of guys with 3.5 GPA’s.

Some of the court cases may give the ability for schools to contribute more directly to athletic programs. Without that, we just don't have enough athletic contributors, enough total donations and the disadvantages in the upcoming TV contracts versus the Big 2 to effectively compete in the NIL world. Of course the ACC is not world beaters and FSU/Clemson/UNC have revenue advantages over us but not nearly as much as the Big 2 teams. That would give us a chance to go beyond 8 wins in the future. Our biggest problem on win totals is UGA and to a point playing Notre Dame 3 of the next 6 years.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

Some of the court cases may give the ability for schools to contribute more directly to athletic programs. Without that, we just don't have enough athletic contributors, enough total donations and the disadvantages in the upcoming TV contracts versus the Big 2 to effectively compete in the NIL world. Of course the ACC is not world beaters and FSU/Clemson/UNC have revenue advantages over us but not nearly as much as the Big 2 teams. That would give us a chance to go beyond 8 wins in the future. Our biggest problem on win totals is UGA and to a point playing Notre Dame 3 of the next 6 years.

Agreed, which is why I say we are a peak 8 win program. 12 games - loss to UGA, then FSU, Clemson and ND. Then the 4 toss up games (UNC, VT, NC State, Miami types) and then the random head scratcher. Now, sure years we have a super easy schedule outside UGA we could win 9 or 10 but how often will those years come around. And SMU is gonna be a power soon so that’s another loss coming in a few years as they buy 4 and 5 stars.

That may sound pessimistic but that’s simply where we are. Key is awesome but not a miracle worker. Give Key the same roster as UGA or Bama and we’ll be in the playoffs every year. But, until GT shows the recruits the money we’ll be a 3 star roster with a handful of 4’s with a good head coach which equals 7-8 wins per year on average.

 

[jgtengineer]

Agreed, which is why I say we are a peak 8 win program. 12 games - loss to UGA, then FSU, Clemson and ND. Then the 4 toss up games (UNC, VT, NC State, Miami types) and then the random head scratcher. Now, sure years we have a super easy schedule outside UGA we could win 9 or 10 but how often will those years come around. And SMU is gonna be a power soon so that’s another loss coming in a few years as they buy 4 and 5 stars.

That may sound pessimistic but that’s simply where we are. Key is awesome but not a miracle worker. Give Key the same roster as UGA or Bama and we’ll be in the playoffs every year. But, until GT shows the recruits the money we’ll be a 3 star roster with a handful of 4’s with a good head coach which equals 7-8 wins per year on average.

IT is funny how people got mad at a certain AD we had for saying the same thing in 2003

 

[78pike]

It makes me wonder how Johnson would have done if he had been given the resources and money we currently have for the football program. No matter what you think of him as a coach, you have to admit he won an amazing amount of games with the talent level and resources he had to work with. Now you can argue that he might not have attracted a much higher level of talent because of the offense that he ran, but what if he did? I mean he was a genius at recognizing an opponent's weaknesses and exploiting them.

 

[Bogey]

It makes me wonder how Johnson would have done if he had been given the resources and money we currently have for the football program. No matter what you think of him as a coach, you have to admit he won an amazing amount of games with the talent level and resources he had to work with. Now you can argue that he might not have attracted a much higher level of talent because of the offense that he ran, but what if he did? I mean he was a genius at recognizing an opponent's weaknesses and exploiting them.

I have a lot of respect for CPJ for his coaching abilities but the fact remains recruiting prowess was just not in his DNA. Coupled with the lack of appeal of his system to the top players, i doubt if money would have impacted his results very much. Fast forwarding to today, it is easy to see how Brent's recruiting skills are attractive to our donors.

 

[AugustaSwarm]

UGA is not a good example because Richt was winning double digits every year while recruiting in the top 8. And they still directed him to leave because they were not satisfied. If you remember, before Kirby signed it was reported he demanded certain things for recruiting and his staff because he knew exactly how Bama was doing it. Kirby forced UGA to do the things I’m talking about before he signed on. And they agreed and are now a top 1-2 program because Kirby forced them to do it.

Having Cabrera on board is nice, but unless he redirects deep money, like he does for academic endeavors, it’s just a feel good story with little substance. We are still recruiting at the same level so it doesn’t appear Cabrera has given Key funds for 5 star type players. I definitely believe Key is using what he learned at Bama to build this program so I do think we will get back to the Johnson level of winning when we have a solid QB and get a few bounces. But, until the school actually commits to buying high end players regardless of academics we will continue to be where we have been. I’ll know Cabrera and GT are serious when we sign a 5 star DLineman who reads at a 6th grade level and holds a hat picking ceremony live on the local news of his hometown. That’s what it takes to win double digit games these days. I wish it wasn’t but we aren’t winning the conference these days with a bunch of guys with 3.5 GPA’s.

I think what you're saying is exactly why UGA is a good example for the point I'm making - which is that things can change. UGA wasn't going to take the next step with Richt. But Kirby came in, changed some things (including the culture), and all of the sudden they go from good to great.

I tend to agree with your last paragraph. I don't think anything will change for GT overnight, but we are trending in the right direction. Cabrera can't necessarily fund the GTAA directly, but Cabrera can absolutely help to increase funding for facilities and coaching budgets - which, I believe, is part of what he's doing now. I think this current NIL-era is only going to make the gap harder to close in terms of recruiting, but having the backing of the administration is the first step. We finally have that, so now it's up to Batt, Key and company to step it up on the field and on the recruiting trail.

 

[AugustaSwarm]

I have a lot of respect for CPJ for his coaching abilities but the fact remains recruiting prowess was just not in his DNA. Coupled with the lack of appeal of his system to the top players, i doubt if money would have impacted his results very much. Fast forwarding to today, it is easy to see how Brent's recruiting skills are attractive to our donors.

I agree. I think CPJ was old-school and wasn't interested in playing the game that modern recruiting has become. His offense was too easy for other schools to use as a negative recruiting pitch, and frankly, his tenure at Tech really highlights the importance of recruiting well. With recruiting, there's always going to be exceptions - a 2 star kid that turns into a superstar and a 5 star kid that never pans out...but the big picture shows that it matters and is one of the best predictors of success.

 

[684Bee]

It makes me wonder how Johnson would have done if he had been given the resources and money we currently have for the football program. No matter what you think of him as a coach, you have to admit he won an amazing amount of games with the talent level and resources he had to work with. Now you can argue that he might not have attracted a much higher level of talent because of the offense that he ran, but what if he did? I mean he was a genius at recognizing an opponent's weaknesses and exploiting them.

He would’ve had us in at least one playoff.

 

[Lil G]

Oh how different this conversation could have been if Kyle Efford made that 3rd down tackle late in the 4th quarter vs UGA.

Love him don’t get me wrong.

Just don’t subscribe to UGA “dominance” as of this year. Did y’all see dominance?

Did y’all see their entire team of 5 and 4 stars manhandle us? I didn’t

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

I think what you're saying is exactly why UGA is a good example for the point I'm making - which is that things can change. UGA wasn't going to take the next step with Richt. But Kirby came in, changed some things (including the culture), and all of the sudden they go from good to great.

I tend to agree with your last paragraph. I don't think anything will change for GT overnight, but we are trending in the right direction. Cabrera can't necessarily fund the GTAA directly, but Cabrera can absolutely help to increase funding for facilities and coaching budgets - which, I believe, is part of what he's doing now. I think this current NIL-era is only going to make the gap harder to close in terms of recruiting, but having the backing of the administration is the first step. We finally have that, so now it's up to Batt, Key and company to step it up on the field and on the recruiting trail.

See, I just disagree about the “Cabrera can’t fund the GTAA directly”. This is the garbage everyone has been saying for decades while we’ve fallen further and further behind and are essentially irrelevant in any of the 3 major sports. Cabrera’s job is to fix that part. GT has plenty of money and the guys in charge just simply haven‘t addressed the elephant in the room - which is to use the money to assist athletics which will also increase the prestige of GT. I’m not there so I don’t know the ins and outs, but I do know that plenty of other schools figure out ways to use the deep money for all areas of the school. If GT is simply closing their eyes and putting their hands over their ears while repeatedly saying “the GTAA isn’t really part of the school” then that’s just BS and the reason our fanbase is shrinking.

Sure, Batt, Key, and Stoudamire have us heading in the right direction because they are all very competent in their field. But, we won’t keep them once we plateau to the GT norm. Stoudamire isn’t going to stay here while watching the Dukes, Carolinas, and Kentuckys, just buy players out from under him. He’ll go somewhere where he’s the one out buying players. Eventually, Key will want that too. Our fanbase is not big enough to do it so Cabrera has to figure it out if he truly wants to win. The money is there. And heaven forbid we use it to actually win and increase our fanbase and reputation. If our EE and ME programs dropped their rankings into the 40’s and 50’s we all know their would be emergency meetings, immediate firings, and money being spent to fix the problem.

 

[stinger78]

Oh how different this conversation could have been if Kyle Efford made that 3rd down tackle late in the 4th quarter vs UGA.

Love him don’t get me wrong.

Just don’t subscribe to UGA “dominance” as of this year. Did y’all see dominance?

Did y’all see their entire team of 5 and 4 stars manhandle us? I didn’t

They held out 3-4 really important offensive pieces including Bowers. Yes, our D played lights out, and our whole team with great enthusiasm and heart, but UGA was a notch more tame on O, too.

 

[stinger 1957]

It makes me wonder how Johnson would have done if he had been given the resources and money we currently have for the football program. No matter what you think of him as a coach, you have to admit he won an amazing amount of games with the talent level and resources he had to work with. Now you can argue that he might not have attracted a much higher level of talent because of the offense that he ran, but what if he did? I mean he was a genius at recognizing an opponent's weaknesses and exploiting them.

His system was never going to allow good recruiting even if he was a good recruiter. The really good players with a few exceptions were never going to want to play in that system. Justin Thomas was obviously an exception.

 

[jgtengineer]

He would’ve had us in at least one playoff.

Probably the first one. We were only 8 points from bein in that one (if we yeild the loss to duke but win the ACC that year where they would have talked up the extenuating circumstances.

Also I think with the investment we probably have a better defense. The bonus would have been was money spent would have gone to that side of the ball. Offense was going to be offense. But with the funding you can beat the stigma on defense.

 

[yeti92]

Probably the first one. We were only 8 points from bein in that one (if we yeild the loss to duke but win the ACC that year where they would have talked up the extenuating circumstances.

Also I think with the investment we probably have a better defense. The bonus would have been was money spent would have gone to that side of the ball. Offense was going to be offense. But with the funding you can beat the stigma on defense.

NIL probably would have been a big help during CPJ's time - I recall a certain 5 star DE that committed to Tech but was "persuaded" to sign with Notre Dame instead. Believe he went on to have a decent NFL career too.

 

[forensicbuzz]

T

NIL probably would have been a big help during CPJ's time - I recall a certain 5 star DE that committed to Tech but was "persuaded" to sign with Notre Dame instead. Believe he went on to have a decent NFL career too.

That was Mom, not SA that chose ND. He was 17 and mom said she wouldn’t sign the LOI.

 

[BCJacket]

It makes me wonder how Johnson would have done if he had been given the resources and money we currently have for the football program. No matter what you think of him as a coach, you have to admit he won an amazing amount of games with the talent level and resources he had to work with. Now you can argue that he might not have attracted a much higher level of talent because of the offense that he ran, but what if he did? I mean he was a genius at recognizing an opponent's weaknesses and exploiting them.

I think the real point of divergence in this 'historical what if?' is with his first DC. CPJ is on public record that he was set to hire Ellis Johnson, but was told there wasn't enough money. (Scuttlebutt I've heard is that some boosters who didn't like the CPJ hire held back the funds. And the booster's money games were why ADDR left for Clemson.) So, CPJ ended up with Wommack. Ellis Johnson ended up at USCe, recruited Jadaveon Clowney, and ended up getting a G5 head coaching job. Wommack got fired after 2 years.

With just a little more money, CPJ gets the DC he wanted. As good as 08-09 were. It's not hard to imagine a better DC helping get another win or two, there were some close losses in there. CEJ also was an SEC DC for many years at big name schools prior. He knew the southeast P5 recruiting game. Which, neither CPJ nor his top staff really had that aptitude or experience- they were mostly from FCS and the Academies. CEJ could've helped develop an effective recruiting program out of the gate and leveraged the program's early successes. (The scheme was always going to turn away some players, but winning makes it's own case.) Better defense, better recruiting, maybe 2010 isn't as big of a drop off. Maybe we beat UGA again in 09, 10, or both. They fire Richt and hire Muschamp (which some boosters wanted anyway after he went 8-5 and 6-7.) Muschamp is as 'successful' there as he was at UF and USC in OTL. Gets fired after 4 mediocre years and more losses to Tech. At Tech, fans fill the stands, boosters are bought in, recruiting is better, dogs and cats live together in harmony. Tech owns the Coastal and is a perennial ACCCG contender and BCS Bowl player. 2014, the first year of the CFB Playoff is a magical year...

If only...

 

[Techster]

Probably the first one. We were only 8 points from bein in that one (if we yeild the loss to duke but win the ACC that year where they would have talked up the extenuating circumstances.

Also I think with the investment we probably have a better defense. The bonus would have been was money spent would have gone to that side of the ball. Offense was going to be offense. But with the funding you can beat the stigma on defense.

Couple of things:

1. CPJ called out some donors publicly without naming names, and he pretty much said the same thing Braine said, but that was with respect to funding. CPJ had issues with expectations of the football program, but the school and donors not wanting to invest in the program to meet those expectations. There's actually an interview where CPJ said "if you want me to recruit better, give me the money to recruit that the top programs have" (I'm paraphrasing). That was aimed at a certain handful of donors that were vocal about CPJ's performance towards the end of his time here, but weren't willing to step up even though they threw their weight around the program...same donors that was basically working against Batt at the beginning of his time here.

2. Recruiting DLs and LBs was always going to be a struggle at GT with CPJ. I think CPJ did fairly well with some higher rated DLs and some LBs. CPJ did well with signing 4 star DBs though. He did get a sprinkle of 4 star DLs, but some of them just didn't develop like the staff thought they would. The problem with recruiting DLs during that time was other programs "negatively" recruiting against the flex option, and more specifically, the cut blocks. Remember how every DL use to wear knee braces against CPJ's teams? Well, one of the popular things to do at the time was use photos of our DLs walking to practice with knee braces on in preparation for practice. Fair or not, there was always a stigma with our Flex Option and cut blocking...and if you followed this site during that time, it was always something that came up with other teams. Other teams used to always tell recruits, "Son, it's one thing to play against them, it's another thing to get your knees blown up every day in practice." and then they would proceed to show recruits photos of our DLs walking to practice with knee braces. I know this because I had a friend that was an assistant coach at a high level Cobb County high school that produced a LOT of 4 and 5 star recruits and he got to hear a lot of recruiting pitches. This is actually something I've relayed to this board years ago when CPJ was here.

Believe it or not, CPJ's highest rated recruits during his time here came on the defensive side of the ball. He recruited more talent on defense than his vaunted offense. There are theories to why CPJ could never field a consistently average to good defense, but IMO, signing defensive talent was not one of the reasons why he couldn't field a better defense than he did.

 

[CEB]

Couple of things:

1. CPJ called out some donors publicly without naming names, and he pretty much said the same thing Braine said, but that was with respect to funding. CPJ had issues with expectations of the football program, but the school and donors not wanting to invest in the program to meet those expectations. There's actually an interview where CPJ said "if you want me to recruit better, give me the money to recruit that the top programs have" (I'm paraphrasing). That was aimed at a certain handful of donors that were vocal about CPJ's performance towards the end of his time here, but weren't willing to step up even though they threw their weight around the program...same donors that was basically working against Batt at the beginning of his time here.

2. Recruiting DLs and LBs was always going to be a struggle at GT with CPJ. I think CPJ did fairly well with some higher rated DLs and some LBs. CPJ did well with signing 4 star DBs though. He did get a sprinkle of 4 star DLs, but some of them just didn't develop like the staff thought they would. The problem with recruiting DLs during that time was other programs "negatively" recruiting against the flex option, and more specifically, the cut blocks. Remember how every DL use to wear knee braces against CPJ's teams? Well, one of the popular things to do at the time was use photos of our DLs walking to practice with knee braces on in preparation for practice. Fair or not, there was always a stigma with our Flex Option and cut blocking...and if you followed this site during that time, it was always something that came up with other teams. Other teams used to always tell recruits, "Son, it's one thing to play against them, it's another thing to get your knees blown up every day in practice." and then they would proceed to show recruits photos of our DLs walking to practice with knee braces. I know this because I had a friend that was an assistant coach at a high level Cobb County high school that produced a LOT of 4 and 5 star recruits and he got to hear a lot of recruiting pitches. This is actually something I've relayed to this board years ago when CPJ was here.

Believe it or not, CPJ's highest rated recruits during his time here came on the defensive side of the ball. He recruited more talent on defense than his vaunted offense. There are theories to why CPJ could never field a consistently average to good defense, but IMO, signing defensive talent was not one of the reasons why he couldn't field a better defense than he did.

It’s because our D only practiced against that dadgummed option.