Expectations for the 2021 season

[Coloradojacket]

Colorado....I think this is the point the other poster was trying to point out. I asked you to comment on the things that you were hopeful about or excited for? Yet, you default into this list which is a list of things that are negative and are points you have made here repeatedly. Are you excited about the upcoming season? Or do you go out of habit?

I am always excited about football season. However I hold very little hope that this will be a good season for us. It might if we decide to change schemes and utilize what looks to be a decent O-line, 4 very good running backs and a mobile QB. But I know we will not. Shotgun Spread. I hope to see we can make extra points and field goals this year. But that should be expected every year. I hope that we are able to move the ball on time consuming drives to keep the defense off the field...but that goes back to scheme.

We will not know what we have until mid season as we should win our first 2 and lose our next 2. If we beat UNC or keep it close then we might be able to see a 5 win season. But if me being hopeful for a 5 win season is what should make me happy....then damn my expectations have really dropped. And what is funny, most of this board is cheering for a 5 win season and says that means we are on the right track.

 

[Coloradojacket]

Your comments simply display to me that you don’t understand what is going on. #1 is bs. You are putting your negative spin on comments he’s made. #2 stupid and Jeremy, #3 citadel was bad no point in bringing it up daily, #4 meaningless,#5 really shows you don’t understand… k way to change perception of recruits unless you show what you are building. The change was done on purpose and we were told it would happen, #6 no idea what that really means.
Yes the schedule is tough but other than ND this is pretty much our normal schedule. You simply are showing your pessimism in expecting doom and gloom.

As I said from the start of the CGC era...this was an experiment. An experiment to prove that GT can recruit to the levels of its like brethren in the ACC. UNC, UVA.....not Clemson. And with this increase in recruiting do better than the previous coach.

So far the experiment is a D. But this year is the mid term exam. 6 wins is a passing grade.

 

[CuseJacket]

As I said from the start of the CGC era...this was an experiment. An experiment to prove that GT can recruit to the levels of its like brethren in the ACC. UNC, UVA.....not Clemson. And with this increase in recruiting do better than the previous coach.

So far the experiment is a D. But this year is the mid term exam. 6 wins is a passing grade.

Hopefully you'll participate in answering the logical questions around your stance, because it seems you shy away from them when others ask.

If we get top 30 classes, then on average we should have top 30 results on the field once those are upperclassmen, regardless of your preference for scheme. Can you share whether you agree or disagree?

In that light so far the recruiting experiment is working, unless your expectations were for true freshmen to have proven the results to you. Gibbs and Sims were part of Collins' first full recruiting class and just completed their first full year on campus.

 

[ncjacket79]

I am always excited about football season. However I hold very little hope that this will be a good season for us. It might if we decide to change schemes and utilize what looks to be a decent O-line, 4 very good running backs and a mobile QB. But I know we will not. Shotgun Spread. I hope to see we can make extra points and field goals this year. But that should be expected every year. I hope that we are able to move the ball on time consuming drives to keep the defense off the field...but that goes back to scheme.

We will not know what we have until mid season as we should win our first 2 and lose our next 2. If we beat UNC or keep it close then we might be able to see a 5 win season. But if me being hopeful for a 5 win season is what should make me happy....then damn my expectations have really dropped. And what is funny, most of this board is cheering for a 5 win season and says that means we are on the right track.

So last year we were run heavy and tried to use the QB in both the run game and to keep defenses honest with the passing game. Just what “scheme” do you think we should use?

 

[Coloradojacket]

Hopefully you'll participate in answering the logical questions around your stance, because it seems you shy away from them when others ask.

If we get top 30 classes, then on average we should have top 30 results on the field once those are upperclassmen, regardless of your preference for scheme. Can you share whether you agree or disagree?

In that light so far the recruiting experiment is working, unless your expectations were for true freshmen to have proven the results to you. Gibbs and Sims were part of Collins' first full recruiting class and just completed their first full year on campus.

Ok, I will answer. Question 1...no. You can have top 30 players but you need top 30 coaches to go with them. Can you be top 30 with sub coaching...sure but you only have to be a 7 win team.

2 Recruiting class rankings
25
49
Soooo why do you say recruiting is improving? 49 is right in line with the past 15 years.
And if you add transfers....we lost many more 4 stars than we gained. And my take on a transfers is that they are leaving their old team because they weren't a starter.

Experiment.....success is measured in wins and losses...nothing else. Not recruiting rankings or how many players you get to the NFL. That is why this year is mid terms.
Oh and if you want comparison..that great recruiting class of 2007, were Sophomores in 2008. 9 win season.

 

[Coloradojacket]

So last year we were run heavy and tried to use the QB in both the run game and to keep defenses honest with the passing game. Just what “scheme” do you think we should use?

Coastal Carolina.

 

[GoJacketsInRaleigh]

Yes, we lost to the Citadel. It sucks. **** happens. CPJ once got run off the damn field by Middle Tennessee State and was Duke's *****. We can all go tit for tat on this stuff but it's pointless.

If you assume Collins took over a roster with ACC talent that wasn't created for a triple option offense and didn't go through a global pandemic then yes 6-16 looks awful. But if you attempt to have some nuance and look at the situation he inherited, look at how he's selling the program, getting great recruits to visit (and commit), and you still ***** and moan and can't say anything nice then sorry you aren't a good fan and you just have an axe to grind.

 

[Scubapro]

Hopefully you'll participate in answering the logical questions around your stance, because it seems you shy away from them when others ask.

If we get top 30 classes, then on average we should have top 30 results on the field once those are upperclassmen, regardless of your preference for scheme. Can you share whether you agree or disagree?

In that light so far the recruiting experiment is working, unless your expectations were for true freshmen to have proven the results to you. Gibbs and Sims were part of Collins' first full recruiting class and just completed their first full year on campus.

Geoff has shown he can get some nice parts; Sims and Gibbs. Most coaches at Tech have been able to get a few gems, some rougher than others. The question is can he get ten to fifteen a year which is what it will take in order to complete with mediocre coaching. There has been nothing over the past two years that shows he can coach "At a HIGH level". Sorry couldn't resist.
Players not knowing the plays, lack of discipline, taking bad angles, over running coverage. These issues are due to coaching.

 

[Coloradojacket]

Yes, we lost to the Citadel. It sucks. **** happens. CPJ once got run off the damn field by Middle Tennessee State and was Duke's *****. We can all go tit for tat on this stuff but it's pointless.

If you assume Collins took over a roster with ACC talent that wasn't created for a triple option offense and didn't go through a global pandemic then yes 6-16 looks awful. But if you attempt to have some nuance and look at the situation he inherited, look at how he's selling the program, getting great recruits to visit (and commit), and you still ***** and moan and can't say anything nice then sorry you aren't a good fan and you just have an axe to grind.

Created? Funny, when you talk to players that came to Tech under CPJ most will tell you that they came from a shotgun spread offense and had to learn CPJs. Same offense we currently run. He inherited a 7 win bowl team. I would expect drop off but being stubborn and not fitting a scheme to match your players is not the sign of a good coach. Coaches are hired to win. Not put players into the NFL.

 

[Scubapro]

Yes, we lost to the Citadel. It sucks. **** happens. CPJ once got run off the damn field by Middle Tennessee State and was Duke's *****. We can all go tit for tat on this stuff but it's pointless.

If you assume Collins took over a roster with ACC talent that wasn't created for a triple option offense and didn't go through a global pandemic then yes 6-16 looks awful. But if you attempt to have some nuance and look at the situation he inherited, look at how he's selling the program, getting great recruits to visit (and commit), and you still ***** and moan and can't say anything nice then sorry you aren't a good fan and you just have an axe to grind.

It's one thing to lose a game because the other team is more talented. It's another to watch a team have sixty minutes of WTF moments and then have the coach say they are playing at a high level.
Collins gets a A for selling the program and pumping up the brand but it will not matter if he doesn't win.

 

[GoJacketsInRaleigh]

It's one thing to lose a game because the other team is more talented. It's another to watch a team have sixty minutes of WTF moments and then have the coach say they are playing at a high level.
Collins gets a A for selling the program and pumping up the brand but it will not matter if he doesn't win.

Yeah, like the MTSU game a few years ago. Agreed constant WTF moments

 

[GoJacketsInRaleigh]

Created? Funny, when you talk to players that came to Tech under CPJ most will tell you that they came from a shotgun spread offense and had to learn CPJs. Same offense we currently run. He inherited a 7 win bowl team. I would expect drop off but being stubborn and not fitting a scheme to match your players is not the sign of a good coach. Coaches are hired to win. Not put players into the NFL.

Sorry but it's asinine to say Collins should have been running a triple option offense because that's the players he inherited. Did CPJ run an offense to fit Gailey's players? No, he jammed his triple option in immediately and then had a temper tantrum every time someone called it a triple option instead of a spread offense.

Sorry, but I'm calling your BS what it is. You just have an axe to grind.

 

[Scubapro]

Yeah, like the MTSU game a few years ago. Agreed constant WTF moments

Yep...CPJ has several of those...but they are outliers rather than the norm...WTF moments are all Collins has produced. Even in his two big wins duhU and F$U required some really bad plays by the opposition for us to win.

 

[Coloradojacket]

Yeah, like the MTSU game a few years ago. Agreed constant WTF moments

And what did CPJ do after this loss which was a horrendous defensive effort.

On January 15, 2010, it was announced that Groh would be taking the position of defensive coordinator at Georgia Tech for the 2010 season,[17] and coached there through the Yellow Jackets' loss to Clemson on October 6, 2012. He was relieved of his duties on October 8, 2012

 

[Coloradojacket]

Sorry but it's asinine to say Collins should have been running a triple option offense because that's the players he inherited. Did CPJ run an offense to fit Gailey's players? No, he jammed his triple option in immediately and then had a temper tantrum every time someone called it a triple option instead of a spread offense.

Sorry, but I'm calling your BS what it is. You just have an axe to grind.

Triple option is a play not an offense. The Triple can be run out of the I, the split back Veer, the wishbone, the flex bone, the full house and the wing T. And he won 9 games his first time out and beat UGA.
And kind of Funny about that Nesbitt was a running QB and Dwyer had considered going to Navy.

The Triple Option...Goose Style

 

[Scubapro]

Yeah, like the MTSU game a few years ago. Agreed constant WTF moments

OK...how many wins this year? three, or four? The better question is how many games will we lose by twenty-one or more?

 

[CuseJacket]

Ok, I will answer. Question 1...no. You can have top 30 players but you need top 30 coaches to go with them. Can you be top 30 with sub coaching...sure but you only have to be a 7 win team.

2 Recruiting class rankings
25
49
Soooo why do you say recruiting is improving? 49 is right in line with the past 15 years.
And if you add transfers....we lost many more 4 stars than we gained. And my take on a transfers is that they are leaving their old team because they weren't a starter.

Experiment.....success is measured in wins and losses...nothing else. Not recruiting rankings or how many players you get to the NFL. That is why this year is mid terms.
Oh and if you want comparison..that great recruiting class of 2007, were Sophomores in 2008. 9 win season.

I agree with your point about 2009. Except you're wrong about one thing. They were Juniors, not Sophomores. Burnett and Morgan left for the draft after the season. The results of 2009 were three (3) seasons later, not immediately, following the top 20 class of 2007.

Apples to apples, more time is needed for CGC's first class to play through. They're starting their 2nd season this year, even without allowing any grace for a broken 2020 preseason. Logically, your point further helps explain why results fell off in 2010.

I'm good with your acknowledgement that last year's 49 ranking is missing context. Disagree with your take on net impact of transfers last year, but I don't think data is going to change your mind based on past attempts. Furthermore we're recruiting at a top 25 pace so far this year, including a 4* DT commit. Curious to hear what you think of that. Still TBD on where we finish this year.

 

[CuseJacket]

Geoff has shown he can get some nice parts; Sims and Gibbs. Most coaches at Tech have been able to get a few gems, some rougher than others. The question is can he get ten to fifteen a year which is what it will take in order to complete with mediocre coaching. There has been nothing over the past two years that shows he can coach "At a HIGH level". Sorry couldn't resist.
Players not knowing the plays, lack of discipline, taking bad angles, over running coverage. These issues are due to coaching.

I share your concern around a number of coaching decisions to-date. I was mainly responding with a hypothesis that top 30 recruiting with coaching that "holds serve" should yield top 30 results. If that hypothesis is true, then forget who our coach is for a minute, we should be able to complete at that level at GT.

We don't need a HC savant to manage the clock, cut down on penalties (2019 was great by the way, 2020 was horrible), minimize turnovers and have a competent kicking game. I'm willing to see what this year holds with a normal preseason and predictable, non-Covid affected roster before casting judgment though.

Players not knowing plays, bag angles, and over running coverage feels like "rinse, repeat" regardless of our HC over the last 20 years.

 

[Coloradojacket]

I agree with your point about 2009. Except you're wrong about one thing. They were Juniors, not Sophomores. Burnett and Morgan left for the draft after the season. The results of 2009 were three (3) seasons later, not immediately, following the top 20 class of 2007.

Apples to apples, more time is needed for CGC's first class to play through. They're starting their 2nd season this year, even without allowing any grace for a broken 2020 preseason. Logically, your point further helps explain why results fell off in 2010.

I'm good with your acknowledgement that last year's 49 ranking is missing context. Disagree with your take on net impact of transfers last year, but I don't think data is going to change your mind based on past attempts. Furthermore we're recruiting at a top 25 pace so far this year, including a 4* DT commit. Curious to hear what you think of that. Still TBD on where we finish this year.

I didn't say the 2009 team. I said 2008, CPJs first year.
2009 just showed what good coaching, very good players, and scheme can achieve...11 wins.

Take on 4* player

Anthony Williams

DE

McDonough, GA

6'4"

235

5.8

He was a 4 star. In the 2010 class, remember him...me neither. Maybe a testament to Al Groh.

As for transfers, let's see them play at Tech then I will tell you my opinion.

And as for 2010.
This might explain a fair amount of the drop off, other than the loss to Kansas..a WTF moment

Georgia Tech won’t confirm anything until after the game, but word on the street is QB Joshua Nesbitt broke his right forearm while diving to tackle a Virginia Tech Hokies defender late in the second quarter. Nesbitt left the field and soon went to the locker room early. Tevin Washington has been filling in, and the offense has stalled for the most part.

 

[deeznats]

I'm good with your acknowledgement that last year's 49 ranking is missing context. Disagree with your take on net impact of transfers last year, but I don't think data is going to change your mind based on past attempts. Furthermore we're recruiting at a top 25 pace so far this year, including a 4* DT commit. Curious to hear what you think of that. Still TBD on where we finish this year.

If you told me someone was working on a new recruiting ranking system that might benefit GT, without knowing what it is I could tell you there would be GT fans arguing against it. Such is GT fandom.