Expansion Talk 2021

[GoJacketsInRaleigh]

Hasn’t Clemson won twice recently?

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

By not expanding you are ensuring the little guy never gets a shot.

Do you honestly think that giving the little guy a shot has ever been in consideration in any of the previous negotiations?

 

[forensicbuzz]

The playoff will expand. 10 more things will happen over the next 24 months. There will always be the “next” issue. The SEC isn’t hurt either way. Keep it at 4 and Bama will keep winning because the other 3 who many want to be conference champs will be weak because their conferences are weak. Ohio St and Clemson have clear paths every year to a 4 team playoff. The SEC champ will be battle tested by that point which is why they win. By not expanding you are ensuring the little guy never gets a shot. An undefeated GT Team loses to a 10-2 Clemson team by a field goal in the ACCCG doesn’t get in even though we beat them by 14 in the regular season. And during the ACCCG our starting QB didn’t play due to a minor injury but he would have made it back 2 weeks later for round 1 of the playoffs. Keep it at 4 and the SEC will continue to win Natties at above a 50% clip.

You really have drank the SEC kool-aid. Their path is no harder than any other conference's. Stop promulgating the myth that is SEC football.

 

[Ibeeballin]

You really have drank the SEC kool-aid. Their path is no harder than any other conference's. Stop promulgating the myth that is SEC football.

Please!!! It’s Bama and Pips. Playing a FCS, Arkansas, Ole Miss, MSU and Tennessee is not a gauntlet. TAMU Auburn & and LSU minus 2019 have been middling programs as well but if you say something enough people may start believing it

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Please!!! It’s Bama and Pips. Playing a FCS, Arkansas, Ole Miss, MSU and Tennessee is not a gauntlet. TAMU Auburn & and LSU minus 2019 have been middling programs as well but if you say something enough people may start believing it

Clemson's path is even easier than that most years.

 

[Ibeeballin]

Clemson's path is even easier than that most years.

But nobody denies the ACC is weak tho. By the same token. Clemson schedules & beat the TAMU & Auburns of the world too.

No one conflates the success of 1-2 as the representation of the whole

 

[BurdellJacket]

Please!!! It’s Bama and Pips. Playing a FCS, Arkansas, Ole Miss, MSU and Tennessee is not a gauntlet. TAMU Auburn & and LSU minus 2019 have been middling programs as well but if you say something enough people may start believing it

I double like this. UGA's division of the SEC might be the weakest division of all the power five conferences. If they can't win it, They just really suck.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

But nobody denies the ACC is weak tho. By the same token. Clemson schedules & beat the TAMU & Auburns of the world too.

No one conflates the success of 1-2 as the representation of the whole

Wasn't disagreeing with you. Just reinforcing the point from the ACC side. In the end, you can only beat the teams you play. The committees are pretty good at picking the best teams these days.

 

[Oldgoldandwhite]

. Keep it at 4 and the SEC will continue to win Natties at above a 50% clip.

But at 12, would they not possibly have 50% of the playoff teams?

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I double like this. UGA's division of the SEC might be the weakest division of all the power five conferences. If they can't win it, They just really suck.

I mean really really suck

 

[Technut1990]

Because they have more teams. Spending more does not equal value to ESPN. WVU is a brand that doesn't add much, if any, value to any P4 conference.

I guess you and I are having the chicken and egg conversation. I’m trying to make the point that they HAVE 100 million to spend on sports while you seem to be saying they spend because they have 3 more sports. Surely you aren’t arguing that those 3 extra sports make up the 25 million spending difference between them and us. It should be obvious that they wouldn’t have those 3 more sports if they didn’t have the ability to fund them.

look you guys can stand firm in your positions all you like, it dosent change the facts. WV has a bigger program than does Tech. I don’t hear anyone yelling about Tech being in the conference, nobody asking what Tech is bringing. I’m sure it’s hard to tell but I really don’t care if WV joins or not what I can’t wrap my head around is folks from a smaller school saying a larger one brings nothing.

Tech barely gets half, if that, of its own market. Georgia is 90 miles away and every major corporation in Atlanta pushes them, local TV pushes them, hell everyone pushes them IN TECHS HOMETOWN. I love Tech but an equal application of standards leads me to ask y’all what exactly does Tech bring to the show ?

 

[RonJohn]

It’s not that freaking hard to understand. In an expanded playoff there are more chances for those big schools to lose. With only 4 it’s not. Look at the hoops tourney. Do the top 4 seeds get to the final four every year? And a lot of good teams do not get invited due to early losses who get rolling at the end. Like GT in 2014.

So all SEC teams are "battle tested" because they play against "extremely tough" SEC teams. So 1 team in a 4 team playoff is a shoe in to win, but if you get 4 or 5 SEC teams in a 12 team playoff, the SEC's chances go down? I can't get around how many of the SEC talking points there are in this thread.

 

[yeti92]

I guess you and I are having the chicken and egg conversation. I’m trying to make the point that they HAVE 100 million to spend on sports while you seem to be saying they spend because they have 3 more sports. Surely you aren’t arguing that those 3 extra sports make up the 25 million spending difference between them and us. It should be obvious that they wouldn’t have those 3 more sports if they didn’t have the ability to fund them.

look you guys can stand firm in your positions all you like, it dosent change the facts. WV has a bigger program than does Tech. I don’t hear anyone yelling about Tech being in the conference, nobody asking what Tech is bringing. I’m sure it’s hard to tell but I really don’t care if WV joins or not what I can’t wrap my head around is folks from a smaller school saying a larger one brings nothing.

Tech barely gets half, if that, of its own market. Georgia is 90 miles away and every major corporation in Atlanta pushes them, local TV pushes them, hell everyone pushes them IN TECHS HOMETOWN. I love Tech but an equal application of standards leads me to ask y’all what exactly does Tech bring to the show ?

It's been brought up numerous times but you keep missing the point. Money spent does not equal value.

 

[RonJohn]

I guess you and I are having the chicken and egg conversation. I’m trying to make the point that they HAVE 100 million to spend on sports while you seem to be saying they spend because they have 3 more sports. Surely you aren’t arguing that those 3 extra sports make up the 25 million spending difference between them and us. It should be obvious that they wouldn’t have those 3 more sports if they didn’t have the ability to fund them.

look you guys can stand firm in your positions all you like, it dosent change the facts. WV has a bigger program than does Tech. I don’t hear anyone yelling about Tech being in the conference, nobody asking what Tech is bringing. I’m sure it’s hard to tell but I really don’t care if WV joins or not what I can’t wrap my head around is folks from a smaller school saying a larger one brings nothing.

Tech barely gets half, if that, of its own market. Georgia is 90 miles away and every major corporation in Atlanta pushes them, local TV pushes them, hell everyone pushes them IN TECHS HOMETOWN. I love Tech but an equal application of standards leads me to ask y’all what exactly does Tech bring to the show ?

What I don't understand is why you think that the extra revenue that WVU generates would impact the conference. Media rights are what the conference shares. Total sports revenue for a school does not impact the other conference members.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I guess you and I are having the chicken and egg conversation. I’m trying to make the point that they HAVE 100 million to spend on sports while you seem to be saying they spend because they have 3 more sports. Surely you aren’t arguing that those 3 extra sports make up the 25 million spending difference between them and us. It should be obvious that they wouldn’t have those 3 more sports if they didn’t have the ability to fund them.

look you guys can stand firm in your positions all you like, it dosent change the facts. WV has a bigger program than does Tech. I don’t hear anyone yelling about Tech being in the conference, nobody asking what Tech is bringing. I’m sure it’s hard to tell but I really don’t care if WV joins or not what I can’t wrap my head around is folks from a smaller school saying a larger one brings nothing.

Tech barely gets half, if that, of its own market. Georgia is 90 miles away and every major corporation in Atlanta pushes them, local TV pushes them, hell everyone pushes them IN TECHS HOMETOWN. I love Tech but an equal application of standards leads me to ask y’all what exactly does Tech bring to the show ?

Asking what Tech brings to the show is irrelevant. Tech is already part of the conference. The question has always been what would team X have to bring to the table to be accepted as a new member. And even more specifically is that enough to pry open ESPN’s money grubbing paws to give a much bigger financial deal so that team X actually causes every other member to reap a substantially larger cut of the pie, rather than the same cut or smaller.

Determining what team X needs to bring to the table is not up for debate, in my opinion. What we disagree on, and apparently will never agree on, is whether West Virginia fits the necessary profile of team X joining the conference and instantly making it more profitable for everybody.

 

[GT flunkout]

PAC 12 stated that they are NOT looking to expand. Big 12 teams being left hung out to dry.

The remaining Big 12 teams have nothing to add for anyone in the P4, unless they come as a dancing partner for Notre Dame (WVU for ACC, KU for B1G). They will add BYU with some combination of Colorado State/Houston/Boise St and carve out a healthy spot at the top of the G5.

 

[augustabuzz]

This makes no sense. So battle tested Bama can't lose in a 4 team playoff but if we expand the playoffs to 12 and add the little guys, they are going to have a chance to beat battle tested Bama? Ok.

Bama is going to be extremely difficult to beat in any playoff scenario. That's just who they are. Where this hurts the SEC is that if they can only get 1-2 teams in instead of 4-5 then they are likely losing out on probably 20+ million dollars for the conference.

I would suggest the annual payoff formula for the expanded playoff would be something like as follows:

Each P4 conference = 19%; each g6 conference = 3.5% and the remainder to the governing organization. So, whether you have zero or six participating teams does not change the payout.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

I guess you and I are having the chicken and egg conversation. I’m trying to make the point that they HAVE 100 million to spend on sports while you seem to be saying they spend because they have 3 more sports. Surely you aren’t arguing that those 3 extra sports make up the 25 million spending difference between them and us. It should be obvious that they wouldn’t have those 3 more sports if they didn’t have the ability to fund them.

look you guys can stand firm in your positions all you like, it dosent change the facts. WV has a bigger program than does Tech. I don’t hear anyone yelling about Tech being in the conference, nobody asking what Tech is bringing. I’m sure it’s hard to tell but I really don’t care if WV joins or not what I can’t wrap my head around is folks from a smaller school saying a larger one brings nothing.

Tech barely gets half, if that, of its own market. Georgia is 90 miles away and every major corporation in Atlanta pushes them, local TV pushes them, hell everyone pushes them IN TECHS HOMETOWN. I love Tech but an equal application of standards leads me to ask y’all what exactly does Tech bring to the show ?

I still can't figure out what them having $100 million to spend on sports matters. The WVU brand isn't as good as GTs. Period. They aren't a national draw. No one cares about them enough to grab them now that they are available. GT was courted by the B1G a few years ago. These are facts that aren't convenient for you, but are facts nonetheless. GT benefits a lot from its long history as well as its traditions, which WVU doesn't have in nearly the same quantity.

Also, we don't have to answer the last question. We are already in a P4 conference. We don't have to make the argument because we are there. If the ACC were kicking out teams maybe, but they aren't.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

I’m sure it’s hard to tell but I really don’t care if WV joins or not what I can’t wrap my head around is folks from a smaller school saying a larger one brings nothing.

Whether you can wrap your head around a fact does not change it. WVU brings nothing of tremendous value to this conference. If we were just going for bigger programs, UCF would be a better choice than WVU.

 

[augustabuzz]

You really have drank the SEC kool-aid. Their path is no harder than any other conference's. Stop promulgating the myth that is SEC football.

Impossible. Either you "drank" the koolaid or you "have drunk" the koolaid.