Expansion Talk 2021

JacketOff

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Nope, viewership doesn't matter one bit for subscriber fees.
You’re right, at least as long as the current contracts exist. But as soon as those contracts expire viewership numbers become very relevant for providers. If ESPN wants to gourge the providers and nobody is watching, the providers will tell them to pound sand.
 
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So fewer subscribers means less money.
Maybe, there are also part of the contracts based on add revenue as well. And don't forget there is an entire other piece of revenue that is the bowl games and the playoff. Imagine the SEC with 3 playoff teams out of 4. Clemson slips up and the PAC12 has nobody. Big12 is gone. It could happen.
 

orientalnc

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If the SEC merged with the ACC, wouldn't that dilute their payout per team? If so, why would they want to do it?
I assume a 32 team ACC/SEC would demand a renegotiated deal with ESPN/NBC/Fox that could easily eclipse their current per team payout. The viewership for a Bama/ND game in October would be huge. And Vandy vs. Duke would be no worse than any Vandy or Duke game.
 

RonJohn

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You’re right, at least as long as the current contracts exist. But as soon as those contracts expire viewership numbers become very relevant for providers. If ESPN wants to gourge the providers and nobody is watching, the providers will tell them to pound sand.
The ingenious thing that ESPN has done is set up all of their provider contracts to expire before important sporting times, and completely isolated form the contracts of other providers. If Dish Network tells ESPN to pound sane, ESPN can take 30% of Dish Network's subscribers to another provider. What has happened in the past is that before the contract expires, if Dish didn't agree to the terms, ESPN would advertise that college football was not going to be available on Dish and people should call Dish or switch to DirectTV. When DirecTV's contract came up at a different time, they did the same thing to DirecTV. They don't have a monopoly on all sports content, but they have enough of a lock that a percentage of any provider's subscribers are interested, or even mainly interested in live sports. I estimated 30%. I have seen estimates between 30-40% but don't know how accurate they are. The viewership numbers didn't really matter. The only thing that mattered was whether subscribers would leave is ESPN was taken away. To gain that, ESPN didn't need any one game or program that had a large audience. They just needed to have SEC sports, ACC sports, Big 12 sports, etc. that wrapped up a large subscriber base's interest.
 
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The ingenious thing that ESPN has done is set up all of their provider contracts to expire before important sporting times, and completely isolated form the contracts of other providers. If Dish Network tells ESPN to pound sane, ESPN can take 30% of Dish Network's subscribers to another provider. What has happened in the past is that before the contract expires, if Dish didn't agree to the terms, ESPN would advertise that college football was not going to be available on Dish and people should call Dish or switch to DirectTV. When DirecTV's contract came up at a different time, they did the same thing to DirecTV. They don't have a monopoly on all sports content, but they have enough of a lock that a percentage of any provider's subscribers are interested, or even mainly interested in live sports. I estimated 30%. I have seen estimates between 30-40% but don't know how accurate they are. The viewership numbers didn't really matter. The only thing that mattered was whether subscribers would leave is ESPN was taken away. To gain that, ESPN didn't need any one game or program that had a large audience. They just needed to have SEC sports, ACC sports, Big 12 sports, etc. that wrapped up a large subscriber base's interest.
Exactly...I worked for DISH for nine years and Comcast Business for2. Pay TV these days is driven by sports. You don't DVR a game unless you have to.
 

bobongo

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I assume a 32 team ACC/SEC would demand a renegotiated deal with ESPN/NBC/Fox that could easily eclipse their current per team payout. The viewership for a Bama/ND game in October would be huge. And Vandy vs. Duke would be no worse than any Vandy or Duke game.
If it's a round-robin schedule, those matchups would occur once every 4 years in a 32-team megacluster.
 

augustabuzz

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I like this idea but I would go, in order of preference/invitation:

1. Notre Dame
2. USC
3. Stanford
4a. Penn State
4b. Oregon
4c. Washington
5. WVU
6. A Texas team

4 5-Team Pods(assuming we don’t get penn st)

Pacific: SC, Stanford, Notre Dame, Oregon, Washington
Old Big East: BC, Cuse, Pitt, Miami, WVU
Bball Schools: Wake, Duke, unc, ncsu, lville
South: GT, Clemson, Fsu, Virginia, VT,

Play your pod and one other for 9 game conference schedule. Play every team every three years. Home and home every six.
It looks like The South has the real basketball schools. (ie. the last 3 ACC champs)
 

augustabuzz

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You are missing the current business model. ESPN (including SEC Network and ACC Network) gets their money mainly from TV subscribers. Viewership rating mean extremely little. Every single person with a broadcast TV cable/sat/streaming package pays for ESPN, and the great majority pay for SEC and ACC (except Comcast for ACC). It doesn't matter if you ever watch a game on SEC Network, you pay for the SEC Network. It doesn't even matter if you never watch any sport whatsoever and only watch Lifetime Movies, you still pay for SEC Network.

That is the reason that the most recent conference re-alignments stressed TV market as the reason to add a team. If a conference added a tv market like Atlanta, that is an extra $2 million per month for the conference, just from TV subscribers. That business model is changing as more people cut the cord, which they are doing in a large part due to the cost of ESPN.
I was once told by someone who would be in position to know, that the biggest fear at CBS Sports was that Augusta National would one day decide that they did not need CBS to produce The Masters and could do it themselves.
 
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I was once told by someone who would be in position to know, that the biggest fear at CBS Sports was that Augusta National would one day decide that they did not need CBS to produce The Masters and could do it themselves.
Think of a world where there is no ESPN, ABC, CBS. All TV is on demand. News is streaming. Shows are subscriber based.
Now you are a Tech fan and you want to watch Tech and maybe the SEC and ACC games. You buy your season ticket but they come with a fee, reduced for you to have a Tech Subscription and maybe an ACC Subscription. If you live out of State and do not want to buy tickets you go on Ramblinwreck.com and sign up for your streaming service. If you want the SEC you go to UGA.com or maybe SEC.com to do the same. These become APPS like Netflix, Youtube etc. The SEC and the ACC cut out all the middle men and collect the revenue directly. You want to watch a bowl game, same model.

My TV has no cable or satellite. It runs purely off a WIFI modem from ATT. I have a 500MGB down 50 MGB up capability that is provided by fiber. I guess the ISP would remain the middle man.

We are just about there.

I actually proposed something like this to Tech back in the 1997 time frame but for radio. I used to live in St. Pete from 1992-1994 and when not at the game could not get it on the radio/ TV was limited. I would have my grandmother put the phone up next to a radio speaker and listen to the game on the phone long distance. I worked for MCI at the time so my Ld was free.....and you doubt why I am the biggest Tech fan.
 

augustabuzz

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Think of a world where there is no ESPN, ABC, CBS. All TV is on demand. News is streaming. Shows are subscriber based.
Now you are a Tech fan and you want to watch Tech and maybe the SEC and ACC games. You buy your season ticket but they come with a fee, reduced for you to have a Tech Subscription and maybe an ACC Subscription. If you live out of State and do not want to buy tickets you go on Ramblinwreck.com and sign up for your streaming service. If you want the SEC you go to UGA.com or maybe SEC.com to do the same. These become APPS like Netflix, Youtube etc. The SEC and the ACC cut out all the middle men and collect the revenue directly. You want to watch a bowl game, same model.

My TV has no cable or satellite. It runs purely off a WIFI modem from ATT. I have a 500MGB down 50 MGB up capability that is provided by fiber. I guess the ISP would remain the middle man.

We are just about there.

I actually proposed something like this to Tech back in the 1997 time frame but for radio. I used to live in St. Pete from 1992-1994 and when not at the game could not get it on the radio/ TV was limited. I would have my grandmother put the phone up next to a radio speaker and listen to the game on the phone long distance. I worked for MCI at the time so my Ld was free.....and you doubt why I am the biggest Tech fan.
You're right. We're a lot closer to that reality than people realize. I grew up when radio was the only option. Every little town in GA had a Tech station and a UGa station. SAT phones and 6G are going to be amazing.
 

Techster

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For everyone that keeps saying GOR prevents GT (or any P5 school) from going anywhere until 2036, you'll find this interesting. When the person writing the biggest checks is also the entity playing chess in the backgrounds with member schools to benefit them and NOT the conferences, all bets are off. In the end, the lawyers are the real winners:





 
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bobongo

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For everyone that keeps saying GOR prevents GT (or any P5 school) from going anywhere until 2036, you'll find this interesting. When the person writing the biggest checks is also the entity playing chess in the backgrounds with member schools to benefit them and NOT the conferences, all bets are off. In the end, the lawyers are the real winners:






But the GOR still prevents anybody but the Big 12 from getting a Big 12 team's media money, right? Would they forgo that money and leave anyway? Is ESPN not locked into a contract with the Big 12?
 

slugboy

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It seems like a great idea for the remaining B12 schools to ride the contract until it expires, and enjoy a two-team better split. They’ll get the money TX and OU brought to the conference without having to split it with them. They might even get penalties, too.
If the Pac12 wants a school now, they’ll want them in two years, and it’s probably more money for all schools concerned if they wait until the TX and OU rights revert. Use the extra money to build your programs.
Work out plans to join other conferences in another few years.
 

RonJohn

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But the GOR still prevents anybody but the Big 12 from getting a Big 12 team's media money, right? Would they forgo that money and leave anyway? Is ESPN not locked into a contract with the Big 12?
I think the claim is that ESPN is trying to get enough teams poached from the Big12 such that the Big12 isn't able to survive. The contract probably has some escape clauses for ESPN. I don't know what they are, but they could be something like fewer than half of the members at contract signing are still in the conference?

Maybe ESPN is doing that. Maybe some members of the Big12 are trying to create enough legal uncertainty that Texas and Oklahoma have second thoughts, or that the SEC is worried about a years long legal battle.
 

Northeast Stinger

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I think this is a completely short-sighted approach. If there's no one in the stands, then there aren't going to be many fans watching on TV. If the ratings are poor, revenues decline. Again, am I missing something?
I remember many years ago Major League Baseball was struggling with the vast sea of empty seats at games and wondered if better TV contracts would come if the visuals for TV included full stands. Someone did the math and concluded you could have large sections of general admission seating and charge $1.50 per seat and fill up the sight lines for the TV cameras thus creating a more exciting atmosphere and product.

Turns out, no one implemented this idea because broadcasters didn’t care. Or, put another way, they were going to pay the same amount whether the stands were full or not.
 

Northeast Stinger

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I assume a 32 team ACC/SEC would demand a renegotiated deal with ESPN/NBC/Fox that could easily eclipse their current per team payout. The viewership for a Bama/ND game in October would be huge. And Vandy vs. Duke would be no worse than any Vandy or Duke game.
Weird to say, but I would watch a Vandy/Duke matchup. When two doormats square off it can be an intense game because neither want to lose a game like that.
 
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