ESPN on Grad Transfer fallout

[dtm1997]

Pretty interesting read so far. If they develop well, I would fully expect that AD & Ogbonda may not finish out their career at GT once they get their degree, if we're not winning and/or they're not getting minutes.

 

[AE 87]

LOL. They could "cut" players without the grad transfer rule.

 

[RamblinRed]

The solution to this is so easy and one I suggested a couple of years ago.
Make the grad transfer rule just like the regular transfer rule. Player has to sit a year before being eligible. So in essence the HM coach has to decide whether to give a 2 yr scholly to get one year of playing time and it will be in yr 2 - not immediately.

That would tamper some of the 'just for athletics' and would also give the SA 2 yrs to earn a graduate degree -which alot of schools would like as these kids tend to hurt the graduation numbers of the academic programs they enroll in as most only stay one yr and leave.

if a coach has a wait and yr and use a scholly for 2 yrs they will be more picky about who they are willing to take.

 

[AE 87]

The solution to this is so easy and one I suggested a couple of years ago.
Make the grad transfer rule just like the regular transfer rule. Player has to sit a year before being eligible. So in essence the HM coach has to decide whether to give a 2 yr scholly to get one year of playing time and it will be in yr 2 - not immediately.

That would tamper some of the 'just for athletics' and would also give the SA 2 yrs to earn a graduate degree -which alot of schools would like as these kids tend to hurt the graduation numbers of the academic programs they enroll in as most only stay one yr and leave.

if a coach has a wait and yr and use a scholly for 2 yrs they will be more picky about who they are willing to take.

I like the rule as it is. Your suggestion seems meaningless to me. Most guys who have eligibility after graduation were red-shirted. They can't sit out two years. Also, they are not transferring. They've completed their academic requirements at one institution with academic eligibility remaining. Allowing the rules to be different places value on graduating from the first institution imo.

 

[orientalnc]

The solution to this is so easy and one I suggested a couple of years ago.
Make the grad transfer rule just like the regular transfer rule. Player has to sit a year before being eligible. So in essence the HM coach has to decide whether to give a 2 yr scholly to get one year of playing time and it will be in yr 2 - not immediately.

That would tamper some of the 'just for athletics' and would also give the SA 2 yrs to earn a graduate degree -which alot of schools would like as these kids tend to hurt the graduation numbers of the academic programs they enroll in as most only stay one yr and leave.

if a coach has a wait and yr and use a scholly for 2 yrs they will be more picky about who they are willing to take.

A student athlete has five eligibility years. He can use four of them. Sitting a year would eliminate >90% of all grad transfers from that last year of eligibility.

 

[Peacone36]

I like the rule as it is. Your suggestion seems meaningless to me. Most guys who have eligibility after graduation were red-shirted. They can't sit out two years. Also, they are not transferring. They've completed their academic requirements at one institution with academic eligibility remaining. Allowing the rules to be different places value on graduating from the first institution imo.

Yeah but how many of these guys are pursuing Masters degrees? It usually takes two years to complete these programs make them sit an additional year. It's a OAD situation with a veteran player is all

 

[AE 87]

Yeah but how many of these guys are pursuing Masters degrees? It usually takes two years to complete these programs make them sit an additional year. It's a OAD situation with a veteran player is all

You seem to be ignoring the fact that most don't have the extra year after graduation since they already used a RS year.

 

[JacketFromUGA]

You seem to be ignoring the fact that most don't have the extra year after graduation since they already used a RS year.

He's saying that their first year of Grad school wouldn't count against the 5 year limit.

 

[YlJacket]

If your perspective is the coach or school - you hate this rule
If your perspective is the kid - you love this rule

All a matter of which side you are on. For me, the players have enough restrictions already once they sign an LOI. this one incentivizes the right thing which is to graduate. If they have eligibility left over then use however you wish.

 

[McCamish Maniacs]

He's saying that their first year of Grad school wouldn't count against the 5 year limit.

That's how I interpreted it as well.

Think the point here is that why are we giving only one year scholarships for programs that can't be completed in a year. It's the scam of the century from a basketball perspective and a slap in the face to the academic institutions.

 

[Techster]

It's the scam of the century from a basketball perspective and a slap in the face to the academic institutions.

Well, if we're gonna say that, isn't letting most SA's in schools just for their athletic ability just that? If you look at just the Big 2 schools in GA (UGA & GT), SA's academic credentials are far below the general student population. I believe the gap between SAs and general students at GT is one of the largest in the NCAAs. Let's be honest, if not for their ability to make our team better, most of the SAs we sign in football and basketball would never get into GT (and same can be said at almost any other program) if they were applying as non-SA's.

Kind of a slippery slope there. It's a tough situation that probably needs deeper discourse, but personally, I don't believe we should put any restrictions on a kid once he earns his diploma. Afterall, isn't the diploma why an SA is in school in the first place (*wink, wink*).

 

[Techster]

These kind of discussions reminds me of this scene in Blue Chips:

 

[AE 87]

He's saying that their first year of Grad school wouldn't count against the 5 year limit.

smh ... He said, "Make the grad transfer rule just like the regular transfer rule." There is no red-shirt loophole in the regular transfer rule. He may not have said what he meant but what he said cannot be interpreted that way.

 

[RamblinRed]

I did a poor job of expressing myself.
I meant in terms of a player having to sit out - not being immediately eligible. i would not actually count that sit out year against the 5. Thanks for making me make that distinction.

I do know that alot of grad schools really dislike this rule because many of the SA's come, stay one year and depart and that negatively affects their grad school ratings. (them not staying to graduate)
There's also been talk that at least 1 potential grad transfer for GT this summer was not allowed in due to past issues with grad transfers and the academic side saying no - they would not allow the potential player to matriculate.

 

[orientalnc]

I did a poor job of expressing myself.
I meant in terms of a player having to sit out - not being immediately eligible. i would not actually count that sit out year against the 5. Thanks for making me make that distinction.

I do know that alot of grad schools really dislike this rule because many of the SA's come, stay one year and depart and that negatively affects their grad school ratings. (them not staying to graduate)
There's also been talk that at least 1 potential grad transfer for GT this summer was not allowed in due to past issues with grad transfers and the academic side saying no - they would not allow the potential player to matriculate.

I am not suggesting anything, but how does a grad transfer, who attends grad school for two semesters differ from a student-athlete who stays in school after graduation (e.g., Justin Thomas) but never gets his MS? Does that not affect the grad school's ratings?

 

[AE 87]

I am not suggesting anything, but how does a grad transfer, who attends grad school for two semesters differ from a student-athlete who stays in school after graduation (e.g., Justin Thomas) but never gets his MS? Does that not affect the grad school's ratings?

Correct. It does not unless it's in the grad school. If it's additional ug courses, no.

 

[RamblinRed]

AE87 has this one. it depends upon what they are doing. if they are simply taking additional undergrad courses it has no effect. If they are taking graduate level courses and are registered as a graduate student then it does have an effect.

All of the grad transfers are registered as grad students so it does affect their stats. I just know of multiple schools and programs that are really coming to dislike this because they see this as taking a slot from what they see as a more deserving candidate (and the grad schools tend to have limited spots) and when they don't stay in school it negatively impacts what they have to report to the government and other sources.
i know some schools (not universities - schools within them) are starting to actively try to not have the grad transfers enroll in their schools.

Of course the funny thing is if the NCAA actually enforced the spirit of the rule there would be alot less than there is to begin with. one of the stipulations is that the SA can only change schools if the new school has a major not offered by the current school. That can be handled as easily as saying the current university has a school of Management and the new university has a school of business. As long as its not the exact same wording for the program the NCAA allows it.

 

[AE 87]

AE87 has this one. it depends upon what they are doing. if they are simply taking additional undergrad courses it has no effect. If they are taking graduate level courses and are registered as a graduate student then it does have an effect.

All of the grad transfers are registered as grad students so it does affect their stats. I just know of multiple schools and programs that are really coming to dislike this because they see this as taking a slot from what they see as a more deserving candidate (and the grad schools tend to have limited spots) and when they don't stay in school it negatively impacts what they have to report to the government and other sources.
i know some schools (not universities - schools within them) are starting to actively try to not have the grad transfers enroll in their schools.

Of course the funny thing is if the NCAA actually enforced the spirit of the rule there would be alot less than there is to begin with. one of the stipulations is that the SA can only change schools if the new school has a major not offered by the current school. That can be handled as easily as saying the current university has a school of Management and the new university has a school of business. As long as its not the exact same wording for the program the NCAA allows it.

Fwiw, I still think I had the last one too. I feel if you had really wanted to propose a radical change to the rules to allow 6 years for 4 if in grad school you would have said so. If I'm wrong, I just misspoke and meant differently from what I said.

 

[dtm1997]

FWIW, most of our grad transfers in hoops are building construction/facilities management. Adam Smith was an exception as he was trying to study music technology as he hopes to one day own/run a multimedia studio.

 

[Peacone36]

You seem to be ignoring the fact that most don't have the extra year after graduation since they already used a RS year.

smh ... He said, "Make the grad transfer rule just like the regular transfer rule." There is no red-shirt loophole in the regular transfer rule. He may not have said what he meant but what he said cannot be interpreted that way.

You quoted me originally. And I did not say anything such as what you quoted. I said make them sit "an additional" year. Meaning if they graduate and transfer they sit, if they transfer, graduate and transfer, they sit.