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Enough is enough...

Discussion in 'Georgia Tech Football' started by forensicbuzz, Dec 3, 2019.

  1. forensicbuzz

    forensicbuzz Helluva Engineer

    After 6 fingers of Larceny, I've had enough. This is my manifesto. Criticize me if you like, ban me, castigate me, whatever. But I have enjoyed this forum for too long, and I'm just really unhappy about where it's headed.

    My problem stems from some wanting to blame everything on the previous regime, and so badly want to believe that just changing offenses is some magic bullet that will bring us to the Promise Land. On the other hand, others are so sensitive to anything resembling criticism of the previous regime that they're quick to attack and denigrate the current regime, pointing out that what we have is no better than what we had.

    For the longest time I've stayed away from this argument. I have tremendous respect for Coach Paul Johnson and what he accomplished over his long and illustrious career. He was a winner and won championships. No one wished him more success at Tech than me. But, I have become so tired of the defensiveness of the CPJ fans and the vicious, ever-consuming attacks by those who were ready to see him go, that I've done something I've rarely done until lately...I've begun to "ignore" fonts that can't let this argument go. Every praise for what Coach Geoff Collins is doing is not a hatchet job on CPJ. Every praise for what CPJ accomplished is not a lack of support for CGC and what he's trying to do. Get over yourselves.

    The shame with this is that many of these fonts that are getting ignored have great things to contribute that I will now miss. Some are so obnoxious that my blood pressure is actually lower since ignoring them.

    When I first joined this forum back in April of 2013, it was a small group who were really interested in what made Georgia Tech better. John and Eric were a great team. John handled most of the administrative stuff, and Eric, with his connections and endless graveyard shift free time provided a great deal of inside information. That's gone. Sorry to see Eric step back and John experience tragedy. The site isn't what it once was.

    However, it is still the best thing out there for Georgia Tech fans who want to discuss GT sports and find out about recruiting. Waxing a little philosophical here, but I think the same thing that happened to Atlanta traffic happened to our site. So much additional traffic from other sites came in so quickly that instead of acclimating to the way we did things here, they brought the worst of their former forums with them, creating a clash of different forum decorum with them. We have the "no criticism, period" of the BBuzzoff crowd, we have the Big Cry from the StingTalk crowd, and everyone else recognizes something.

    We need to move past the constant bickering that saturates the forum and get back to the original concept that John and Eric brought forward...GT fans getting together to discuss GT is a constructive way and learning about the things we love about GT. Also, the moderators need to back off. The great thing John did was create an environment where we self-policed. Way too many posts are being deleted or cleaned up. Too many of the moderators are being heavy-handed trying to be "fair-minded" in the posts.

    So, moderators - back off. Everyone else - love GT and commiserate with your fellow fans about the thing you both love...Georgia Tech. Stop sniping and stop being so defensive. When we first came to the site, the discussion was about real GT information, and a lot of it was true insider information. Now, we have to wade through pages and pages of personal bickering and insults to get any nugget of information. I find myself snapping at my kids sometimes after coming on the forum. That's just an all-around bad thing.

    I promise to not make any snarky comments towards anyone who posts something I disagree with. I promise not to be an internet tough guy. I promise not to ridicule someone else's opinion. I promise not to create strawman arguments. I promise to try to understand what my fellow GT fan is upset about or trying to share, and not take it as a personal affront if I disagree.

    Phew! glad I got that off my chest. Sorry if I offended anyone, but this is getting ridiculous.
  2. stech81

    stech81 Helluva Engineer

    Don't be sorry you are right
    bwelbo likes this.
  3. Space Jacket

    Space Jacket Georgia Tech Fan

    Very well said.
    bwelbo likes this.
  4. Dottie1145

    Dottie1145 Helluva Engineer

  5. JacketGirl

    JacketGirl Helluva Engineer

    Preach! So many of us feel the same, but I know i couldn’t have articulated it this well. Thank you.
    bwelbo and Jacket05 like this.
  6. Jmonty71

    Jmonty71 Helluva Engineer

    From my point of view. A lot of folk drew a line in the sand to defend CPJ or to defend CGC. As for myself? I pointed out things with both. I mentioned that CPJ had a bad judgement with DC's. I got blasted. I mentioned that CGC had poor game management and his OC wasn't the best. I got blasted. I truly enjoy debate, conversation and gathering other opinions. I detest the people that come back with harsh words, while trying to defend their coach. We all know that this was going to be a rough year. Maybe, not as rough as it was, but nonetheless.
  7. 33jacket

    33jacket Helluva Engineer

    dude, if you are snapping at your kids due to an online argument or rant, then I suggest, as you recommend to many on this board and recommend the moderators to back off, taking a break as well.

    I can't imagine snapping at my kids due to what people like animal, dressedcheese, skeptic, etc etc espouse on this board every day. Fonts like that should be daily comedy and in fact are; and if folks take this stuff so seriously and so stressfully that somehow it ruins their behavior outside the message board thats a sign to stop posting.

    Not being rude or snarky, but online activity seems to be affecting people in our world way more than it should. You have to know when to step away too; not just tell others how to act.

    as for my opinion, people are entitled to em, I don't always agree, you have fans that are spread along a bell curve; but censoring peoples opinions is not cool. Personal attacks, should not happen and fonts should get banned for it though. Its not proper decorum.

    on one end are the cpj ball suckers, on the other are the cgc savior crowd, and in the middle is most of us. once you can place who is who on that curve, hit ignore, or laugh at em.
  8. YJMD

    YJMD Helluva Engineer

    It's a hard time for the fans, but there's no sign of the team degrading or losing momentum. Quite the opposite. We have a positive, engaged culture, are stepping up recruiting, and filling the roster with a lot more depth than previous. It seems Collins will be given a long enough leash to capitalize on that if he's got the goods. The fans will have our unrest, but it's not like this is unfamiliar territory for the program. So long as the team cohesion, development, and talent base are capable of being competitive, we'll be ok moving on if CGC proves unable to pull it together. The next 9+ win season, whenever it is, all of today's grievances will become irrelevant. Unfortunately it doesn't work so well in reverse. We should be absolutely thankful for the success CPJ had on the flats despite the rockiness. It was no fluke. Despite any apparent disparagement in contrast to CGC, Paul was absolutely an honorable and caring guy who treated his teams and the Institute with respect.
  9. Vespidae

    Vespidae Helluva Engineer

    One of the things I try to do every January, is get back to “writing with persuasion”.

    State my point.
    Provide evidence.
    Evaluate the pros *and* the cons.
    State how my recommendation links to my point.
    Ask for input.

    By this time of year, I usually just rant. Time to reboot and refocus. Thanks for the reminder.
  10. laoh

    laoh Helluva Engineer

    Some people take this all too seriously. In the grand scheme of things, it's just a game of football. A game. Try to relax. I've learned to not stress over this stuff by not caring so much in spite of how the team performs. You can still sit and enjoy watching the game but at some point you gotta know when to back away and de-invest your energy.
  11. bishopbee

    bishopbee Ramblin' Wreck

    Thank you forensic, for expressing so well what many on this forum have been experiencing on this forum. Divisiveness is toxic to what we should all want, which is to see this program succeed and sustain success.
    Buzztheirazz and GTBatGirl96 like this.
  12. TromboneJacket

    TromboneJacket Helluva Engineer

    From my point of view, as someone who began following Tech football and football in general during the CPJ years, the most frustrating thing I see is people who want to blame everything on the head coach. CPJ didn’t recruit as well as he needed to, and he could have done a better job of it, but he wasn’t getting the support he needed until he was halfway out the door. His defenses struggled, but that was because none of the DCs he hired were capable of having total control of the defense without help from the head coach. CPJ was perhaps one of the best offensive play callers to ever coach the sport, and I hated that half the fan base wanted him gone no matter how well he did.

    Now Geoff Collins has had a struggle in his first season due to schematic transitions on both sides of the ball and a dramatic culture shift. And now I’m seeing the same thing: people want him gone, and they’re not likely to change their minds about that. Who were the other candidates for the job again? Ken Whisenhunt? Rumors of Scott Satterfield and Tony Elliot? Not a word about Monken or Niumatalolo? Do people really think any of those coaches (other than the option coaches, who weren’t reported to be interested) would have done better with the transition? I don’t. And I can tell you that firing a coach after one year is not going to make it easier to attract better candidates. Let’s give Collins and the impressive staff he’s assembled (take a look at their resumés) a chance to turn this thing around.

    Instead of focusing our discussions on who’s to blame for the disappointing results, let’s try to focus on what the mistakes were and what could have been done better. I think that’s a much more stimulating conversation, don’t y’all?
  13. tmhunter52

    tmhunter52 Helluva Engineer

    Are you Eric?
    NorthsideJacket likes this.
  14. Buzztheirazz

    Buzztheirazz Helluva Engineer

    Great Post. The CPJ vs. CGC argument is already old and tired and hopefully with time will fade away. It has to.

    Let’s focus as fans to the things that are important to us, which for me is recruiting and what will make our team better. Recruiting was the reason I came here and still come here. I usually spend my initial time in the recruiting forums and then come to the discussion forums unless I see major news.

    Let’s all just try to be better.
    bishopbee likes this.
  15. etbee

    etbee Jolly Good Fellow

    Thank you, sir! I have often wondered if this was the first coaching change some of these posters have gone through. Maybe they aren't sure how to handle it. This is #7 for me. Why is it so hard to thank the departing regime for their efforts and hope the new regime is successful?
    GoldZ, rfjeff9, AE 87 and 6 others like this.
  16. SOWEGA Jacket

    SOWEGA Jacket Helluva Engineer

    As others have mentioned, if posts are affecting your real life then you gotta find a way to handle that. This is a fun board and I enjoy all points of view. I’ve been blasted a few times and I have no problem with different opinions. That is what makes boards like these a fun time for 4-5 minutes at a time during down time. We are all fans of GT, some just take this stuff waaaaaaaay to seriously. I enjoyed this season because I enjoy an underdog story and it’s not often we get to see such a change front and center every day. I loved CPJ and I still find myself singing “The Perfect Option” and watching the video. He was awesome and when my son texted me that he retired I was sick the rest of the day. For me, it was easy to like Collins because after reading his bio I could see he never took a short cut on his path to his dream job. He packed and unpacked his bags along the way several times and he was hired by outstanding programs. That tells me a lot. He even had the guts to take the Temple job totally outside his comfort zone. He is still learning on the job as a head coach, but in life, opportunities don’t always come at the most optimal time. As the OP mentioned, I will do better, but I also take no offense to any poster because we all love GT. And just wait until LSU wins on Saturday. The Georgia boards will be way worse than this one has ever been and they have won double digit games.
  17. vamosjackets

    vamosjackets GT Athlete Featured Member

    So, these back-to-back Proverbs seem to contradict one another:
    Prov 26
    4 Answer not a fool according to his folly,
    lest you be like him yourself.
    5 Answer a fool according to his folly,
    lest he be wise in his own eyes.

    But, that's the point - Wisdom is knowing when to apply each of them. There are times when you shouldn't keep quiet and should speak up to answer the fool. And, there are other times when you are the fool who should keep quiet. And, that's part of the wisdom that this board needs, but that's also the part of wisdom that is most difficult. I haven't gotten there myself, but I hope I'm closer than I used to be.
  18. Augusta_Jacket

    Augusta_Jacket Helluva Engineer

    I've put a lot of thought into this over the years, and I think I know the answer.

    Now, before I say this, I think it's safe to say I am a CPJ fan.

    A lot of posters here, as well as a good portion of our fans and donors, never saw the CPJ hire as bringing in a quality coach to lead a program. Instead, I believe they viewed it as a concession that we weren't good enough to win games the normal way so we had to resort to some gimmick. It was an insult to them in that sense. Then take that initial insult and compound it with the "high school offense" narrative and the insults are not only coming from their own GTAA, but opposing fan bases as well. Now add in the recruiting rankings and you have three strikes against CPJ. He's become an embarrassment to the team that they esteem. Never mind that anyone who knew football knew CPJs recruiting rankings would be artificially lower due to the specific recruits he needed for the AB/BB positions. To them, the numbers were damning. When CPJ won big at first everyone held their tongue, but when JN went down in 2010 and we ended up with a losing season the shine wore off in a hurry. Some marquis wins against Clemson and the 2014 season kept a lot of the donors from coalescing around a firing campaign, and the 9 win season and uga victory in 2016 effectively removed the coals from under CPJs seat after the disastrous 2015 season. 2017 and 2018 didn't help matters and we ended up with a sizable portion of the fan base who never wanted CPJ to begin with ready for him to be fired, which wasn't happening. In essence, to them, CPJ was the embodiment of the Dave Braine statement that we would never be more than a 7 win team running a regular offense.

    Fortunately, CPJ retired and allowed TStan to begin the process of moving GT football in a new direction, which I believe it had to go in. Any of the option coaches, and there is a very small pool of them, would have been a clear step down from CPJ in terms of their knowledge and mastery of the offense so moving back into "traditional" football space made sense. I agree with that. Was CGC the best coach available? Who knows. I know he's the guy TStan hired and if I want GT to be successful I need him to be successful. It's going to take time. It's not just a magical recruiting bump. It's a system, culture, brand, or whatever you want to call it that HAS to be remade completely from scratch in order for this to work. This need not be an indictment on CPJ. I still believe had he stayed and not been burnt out he could have something special next year with Yates and Mason, but CPJ is not here so that is supposition. CGC is the head coach, and he deserves our support.

    Our support doesn't mean he is free of criticism. It's ok to criticize him when we think he's done something wrong. He's made some goofs this year. I personally don't enjoy his style, but that's my problem, not his. What we need to quit doing is the constant comparison of him and CPJ and blaming him entirely for this season. It is a monumental transformation. In the end, he needs our support, and I plan on continuing to support him. I will continue to buy tickets and attend games and donate to the GTAA.
  19. BainbridgeJacket

    BainbridgeJacket Helluva Engineer

    I know OP said less moderation, but what about banning anyone who uses any derivation of CPJ for taking threads off topic. Seriously, I'm sure there's exceptions, but when is it ever relevant to bring him up and it simply perpetuates the divisions that had developed during his tenure.
  20. gt02

    gt02 Helluva Engineer

    agreed. all good to discuss CPJ, for example, in the thread on his interview. but we should not be discussing him in every single post game thread. Gets old real quick. Can't even find content because the same folks just go back and forth with the same posts and bury everything.
    takethepoints likes this.

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