Defenses Under CPJ

[Skeptic]

Except the AFA has had some pretty good defenses over the years (top 40).

That is counter-intuitive. Odd, because the AFA, the last I knew, required that all entrants physically qualify for flight. With drones that might have changed, but, big uglies don't do well in cockpits, even cargo or bombers. And fighter pilots are almost always on the average to smaller size, or used to be. But there is the AFA playing defense...

 

[Skeptic]

My two cents: CPJ will never have a defense better than mediocre until he wants it. The big problem is he really only wants to be an offensive coordinator; without having to answer to a boss*. He pays minimal interest and attention on defense and special teams. He's stated that his involvement with the defense is one meeting during game week to hear the game plan. His quote at Miami halftime was hugely telling: “I tried to run the clock all the way down. I guess 40 seconds was too long.” 'I' being the offense. And 40 seconds was too long for them: the defense. A team divided against itself will never live up to its potential.

When he hired Groh, the whole idea was to have a "head coach for the defense". Sorry, but if you're not the head coach for the whole team, you're not a head coach.

CPJ treats defense as a second priority. So, is it really any surprise that he's had second-rate defenses? When have his defenses improved? In short term spurts when CPJ has actually gotten involved with defense: After Groh was fired, when CPJ worked with Kelly to turn things around. And in 2016 when CPJ demanded more aggression. CPJ is one of the best strategic coaches in the country and he's not using that resource in 2/3 of the phases of the game.

A 4th DC isn't going to make a difference. Unless, CPJ makes his defense a priority on par with his offense.

(*I also feel like this is an issue for recruiting and media exposure/PR for the program. He doesn't like the off-field duties of being a head coach. And he doesn't put 100% effort into them. He doesn't seem to realize or care that they're all interrelated. Want more money, better facilities and better players for your offense? Get out there and sell what you're doing to the fans, the recruits, and the media.)

In fairness to Johnson, 40 seconds was too long. I don't disagree with much of your post, though I think he wants a good defense and in his mind has hired established coordinators to get it done, and by their own testimony -- save Groh, who left like a churlish whiner who had no blame attached at all -- they say he stayed out of their lane. I think you have backed into part of the problem: he stays out so much until he has to step in and then things will improve.

I think it was Twain who said "put all your eggs in one basket. And watch that basket." Maybe that's it for Johnson.

 

[TromboneJacket]

I think an aggressive defense works best for the players we can get. When we’re not physically outmatched and able to take a lead, the bend-don’t-break can be effective (see vpisu 2016) because it works well against an offense that has to take risks. In fact, Ted Roof’s vanilla defense would have likely served us well in 2011 and 2012 when most teams we faced used a pro-style offense. However, now that teams like unc and dook use high-tempo spread offenses, we need to get our defense off the field quickly or they will be spent by the 4th quarter. Additionally, our offense has been more up-and-down in recent years than in the first five years of CPJ’s time at Tech. Thus we need to field the best defense we can regardless of whether it complements the offense. As we saw this season, it’s not enough for the defense to provide the offense an opportunity to seal the game; they have to be able to weather the storm without relying on help from the offense.

 

[4shotB]

I want to believe we shouldn't lose to duke but they have recruited better than us over the last few years.

I never thought I would live long enough to hear or read somebody say this. I guess this makes me lucky though in someways.

 

[Jacketman1]

It also depends on what style of play you want. Navy plays a conservative defense, perhaps even more conservative than Coach Ted Roof's scheme. The reasoning behind that is because Navy knows that if you get a high number of possessions in a game, the more talented team will generally win out in the end. With a bend-don't-break defense, Navy can artificially limit the number of possessions in a game and force opponents to beat them with efficiency, something that Navy has been incredibly good at. Two years ago, Navy held Notre Dame to only 6 possessions and won the game because of that. A lot of people forget that this type of defense - bend-don't-break - was lauded only a few years ago and claimed to be perfect when paired with our offense because it limits the amount of possessions in a game, and since we were one of the most efficient teams offensively we had a great chance at beating better teams, such as the Clemsons, Alabamas, and Ohio States of the world

Now, everyone is saying that an aggressive defense is the key and perfectly paired with our offense. I don't think that's exactly true. If you give up big plays and scores, then you put the offense in a hole that forces us to deviate from our base offense and requires us to air out the ball, which we've seen does not have good results. Frankly, I think a lot of the animosity behind Coach Roof's defense came from the fact that it wasn't fun to watch, in the same way many people hate Coach Johnson's offense. I think a lot of people want to see something more aggressive because it is more fun to watch. My philosophy is: the best defense is one that works. It doesn't matter whether it is conservative or aggressive, as long as it works

Well, we never really had a great "bend but don't break" defense. 2013 was actually not terrible, but both the O and D were inconsistent. 2014 may have been the closest to that "aggressive" defense that Woody implements , and look how that season turned out! 2015 injuries killed our O, so we didn't get to see a competent O with a competent D. The D in 2016 and 17 has mostly been disastrous. In theory, the bend but don't break defense would match perfectly with our O; however, our D was "bend AND break" far too often. That's why I prefer Woody's defense. Sure, we'll get beaten sometimes. But forcing turnovers and TFL are IMO more valuable than, say, holding a team to 3 on most of their drives.

 

[Jacketman1]

Also, another thing: I think our players would do better if we had the "just go out there and play" attitude; in other words, don't make it too complicated. At times in recent years, it has seemed like some players are taking too long to react, or are overthinking. I would prefer simplifying the D and saying, "Play full speed, without stopping, without thinking, just play."

 

[Skeptic]

Well, we never really had a great "bend but don't break" defense. 2013 was actually not terrible, but both the O and D were inconsistent. 2014 may have been the closest to that "aggressive" defense that Woody implements , and look how that season turned out! 2015 injuries killed our O, so we didn't get to see a competent O with a competent D. The D in 2016 and 17 has mostly been disastrous. In theory, the bend but don't break defense would match perfectly with our O; however, our D was "bend AND break" far too often. That's why I prefer Woody's defense. Sure, we'll get beaten sometimes. But forcing turnovers and TFL are IMO more valuable than, say, holding a team to 3 on most of their drives.

That is almost exactly what was supposed to happen with the dismissal of Groh, who apparently was trying the unlimited-practice-time pros with 20 hours for college and a lot of chalk work. Easier said than done apparently.

 

[Jacketman1]

That is almost exactly what was supposed to happen with the dismissal of Groh, who apparently was trying the unlimited-practice-time pros with 20 hours for college and a lot of chalk work. Easier said than done apparently.

I don't remember the turnovers and TFL in the Groh years.

 

[RonJohn]

I don't remember the turnovers and TFL in the Groh years.

I think he was responding to your second post about "simplifying". Johnson said in an interview that in order to implement Groh's defensive scheme that the players had to watch many hours a week of film to understand assignments against that week's opponent. He said that the guys at GT had to attend study hall and had homework, tests, and school projects that didn't allow enough time to watch the amount of film required each week. Apparently for some of the players, the extra film study was seriously affecting their grades. CPJ basically said that the GT players didn't have the same amount of time available for film study as NFL players and apparently players at other places Groh had been.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

My two cents: CPJ will never have a defense better than mediocre until he wants it. The big problem is he really only wants to be an offensive coordinator; without having to answer to a boss*. He pays minimal interest and attention on defense and special teams. He's stated that his involvement with the defense is one meeting during game week to hear the game plan. His quote at Miami halftime was hugely telling: “I tried to run the clock all the way down. I guess 40 seconds was too long.” 'I' being the offense. And 40 seconds was too long for them: the defense. A team divided against itself will never live up to its potential.

When he hired Groh, the whole idea was to have a "head coach for the defense". Sorry, but if you're not the head coach for the whole team, you're not a head coach.

CPJ treats defense as a second priority. So, is it really any surprise that he's had second-rate defenses? When have his defenses improved? In short term spurts when CPJ has actually gotten involved with defense: After Groh was fired, when CPJ worked with Kelly to turn things around. And in 2016 when CPJ demanded more aggression. CPJ is one of the best strategic coaches in the country and he's not using that resource in 2/3 of the phases of the game.

A 4th DC isn't going to make a difference. Unless, CPJ makes his defense a priority on par with his offense.

(*I also feel like this is an issue for recruiting and media exposure/PR for the program. He doesn't like the off-field duties of being a head coach. And he doesn't put 100% effort into them. He doesn't seem to realize or care that they're all interrelated. Want more money, better facilities and better players for your offense? Get out there and sell what you're doing to the fans, the recruits, and the media.)

If you don't think CPJ wants a good D....no never mind...that's it. He likes terrible Ds paired with his offense. History of it goes all the way back to his Georgia Southern days.

It's fair to criticize him, as HC, for not managing the D better. It's fair to criticize him for "throwing the D under the bus". It's pretty nonsensical to claim he doesn't want tonfield an effective D. I could break your argument down to individual points made but its probably not worth the effort.

 

[Milwaukee]

I've never understood why our spring game is only our Offensive scheme. We should play a quarter, at least, of traditional (scout) offenses as well for the defense. We always hear about the scout team replicating the opponent during the week of the game, but that's clearly not been working for a decade now. Just my opinion.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

(*I also feel like this is an issue for recruiting and media exposure/PR for the program. He doesn't like the off-field duties of being a head coach. And he doesn't put 100% effort into them. He doesn't seem to realize or care that they're all interrelated. Want more money, better facilities and better players for your offense? Get out there and sell what you're doing to the fans, the recruits, and the media.)

Shhhhhhh.....
People here seem to think ornory and cantankerous is good for the program.[/QUOTE]

Someone can "feel" like the moon is following them in order to do them harm. That "feeling" doesn't make it true. And other than "feeling" it no one can cite any fact rationalizing the veracity of that "feeling."

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Womack was a budget hire over much better coach options (e.g. Ellis Johnson), Groh was an extreme budget hire because he was still getting paid by VA, and Roof was a legacy hire who turned out to be serviceable but not great. Groh was probably the best coach CPJ hired, but his NFL background didn't translate to stopping newly evolved spread attacks in College. Anyone remember MTSU stacked 4-wide receiver sets at home?

My point is we are paying bottom dollar. Coaching matters. Especially at the college level. If we want to do better, pony up whatever it takes and go get one of the 10 best defensive minds in college football today. We've already done this on the offensive side with CPJ, and we need his equal on the D side to get better. We won't out talent anybody so we need great coaching to win, and we haven't had it on the D side of the ball due to paying bottom dollar.

Talent shmalent. You need talent to have a top 5 or top 10 D. You think Nick Saban couldn't turn GT into a top 30-40 D?

I think he could. But some would still point at top 40 and say..."damn, Nick Saban is past his prime and getting OWNED by Clemson"....

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

I don't remember the turnovers and TFL in the Groh years.

Sneezy

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

I've never understood why our spring game is only our Offensive scheme. We should play a quarter, at least, of traditional (scout) offenses as well for the defense. We always hear about the scout team replicating the opponent during the week of the game, but that's clearly not been working for a decade now. Just my opinion.

If I thought repping against our O was a major factor in subpar D performance I'd agree with you. I think the fundamentals are pretty much the same regardless.

To play devil's advocate a bit also. If we had implemented this last spring, everyone here would be pointing to THAT as the reason for our struggles on O this year.

But hey...if they decide to do exactly this next spring, for a half even, I won't mind. But I think it hurts coach evaluations of how our QBs are executing our O.

 

[UgaBlows]

I've never understood why our spring game is only our Offensive scheme. We should play a quarter, at least, of traditional (scout) offenses as well for the defense. We always hear about the scout team replicating the opponent during the week of the game, but that's clearly not been working for a decade now. Just my opinion.

Thats a pretty good idea, i guess it would cut down on reps for the O tho...

 

[Yomanser]

If there's one thing you have to give Coach Ted Roof credit for:

 

[Skeptic]

If there's one thing you have to give Coach Ted Roof credit for:

That's really surprising. And impressive.

 

[gt2kmd]

If there's one thing you have to give Coach Ted Roof credit for:

Very nice compliment for GT! I hope our guys see this.

 

[Jacketman1]

I have a feeling Etienne would have a different answer if he was a receiver.