Defenses Under CPJ

[Techster]

Just out of curiosity, I looked up CPJ's defensive FEI ratings at GT:

Wommack:
2008: 71
2009: 100
AVG: 85.5

Groh:
2010: 84
2011: 85
2012: 74* (Fired, season finished by Charles Kelley at DC)
AVG: 81

Roof:
2013: 77
2014: 70
2015: 62
2016: 94
2017: 66
AVG: 73.8

Interesting. Roof's defense has been the best of all of CPJ's DCs. In CPJ's worst year (2015) is when our defense was its best (according to FEI). As bad as some may want to say Roof was this year, it was CPJ's second highest rated defense.

In terms of talent, I think the 2008 team was the most talented, in which all the starters outside the LB group saw time in the NFL finished at 71.

At some point you have to wonder if there's a pattern, or did CPJ whiff 3 straight times.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

What’s the FEI for his GSU teams? Just curious...

 

[Techster]

What’s the FEI for his GSU teams? Just curious...

It only goes back to 2007.

BTW, Gailey's last year in 2007, the defense was rated 70 in FEI. Navy was rated dead last in defensive FEI that year.

 

[Jmonty71]

Just out of curiosity, I looked up CPJ's defensive FEI ratings at GT:

Wommack:
2008: 71
2009: 100
AVG: 85.5

Groh:
2010: 84
2011: 85
2012: 74* (Fired, season finished by Charles Kelley at DC)
AVG: 81

Roof:
2013: 77
2014: 70
2015: 62
2016: 94
2017: 66
AVG: 73.8

Interesting. Roof's defense has been the best of all of CPJ's DCs. In CPJ's worst year (2015) is when our defense was its best (according to FEI). As bad as some may want to say Roof was this year, it was CPJ's second highest rated defense.

In terms of talent, I think the 2008 team was the most talented, in which all the starters outside the LB group saw time in the NFL finished at 71.

At some point you have to wonder if there's a pattern, or did CPJ whiff 3 straight times.

I think CPJ whiffed 3 times. There should of been at least one top 40 in all those years, with our ball hogging offense.

 

[ilovetheoption]

1) I think CPJ's not a fantastic recruiter. This doesn't matter as much on offense, because he's not going for the same guys as everybody else, but it does on defense.
2) CPJ has whiffed in hires, by going for "solid" DC's. When combined with the first point, it's a killer, because the team isn't talented enough to play "sound" defense. Their only chance at success is by taking risks.
3) GT has inherent recruiting struggles, which compounds the first 2.

 

[Techster]

Another interesting look, how Navy did in defensive FEI AFTER CPJ:

2008: 86
2009: 34
2010: 77
2011: 109
2012: 101
2013: 104
2014: 72
2015: 69
2016: 118
2017: 82

 

[Milwaukee]

They've all been pathetic imo.

 

[Techster]

They've all been pathetic imo.

Pretty much. IMO, anything outside the top 1/3 is not very good. Top 4oish should be a very reasonable goal for GT.

 

[DallasBuzzFan]

1st let me begin by saying I have always been a CPJ fan. I trust and believe that he can have more success with his offense at GT because you seldom get 4-5 star players on either side of the ball. Therefore you can beat more teams on scheme alone.

That being said. I think it's a double edged sword. I honestly think that for the defensive side of the ball it's like practicing tennis at a high level all week and then playing championship ping pong on weekends.

What they practice against during the week is nothing like what they play against on Saturdays.

Practice squads aren't like your competition either. If they were as good as your gameday competition they wouldn't be on the scout team. Jmho.

 

[quadf]

I think CPJ whiffed 3 times. There should of been at least one top 40 in all those years, with our ball hogging offense.

I think its fair to point out that cpj's budget was relatively constrained on the first 2 dc's (presumably because of the chan & Hewitt buyouts)

His first choice of DC in 08 was Ellis johnson fwiw

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Am I the only one experiencing a case of deja vu at the moment?

 

[AE 87]

Imo, fwiw:
1) Comparing, negatively, Navy D directly isn't helpful because they don't get pwr5 recruits while comparing their O positively does.

2) The results on D for us over time do, in fact, raise HC questions. Response depends on how much credit you attribute to the degree of autonomy granted by Paul to his DC. Fwiw, my take on Paul's comments before firings suggests he's wanting DCs to take action in keeping with encouragement rather than controlling the D.

3. Legitimate concern may exist about talent/talent-practiced-against, but from rankings I'm not conviced. We're not ranked 80 in talent recruited.

 

[GaTechNation]

I think it’s not that he hired the wrong guy but he hired the best money could buy as we don’t have much money


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[slugboy]

I think CPJ whiffed 3 times. There should of been at least one top 40 in all those years, with our ball hogging offense.

In some of the raw numbers, yes. These stats are per possession, so the “ball hogging” is factored out.

I think its fair to point out that cpj's budget was relatively constrained on the first 2 dc's (presumably because of the chan & Hewitt buyouts)

His first choice of DC in 08 was Ellis johnson fwiw

Ellis Johnson got offered 800k 10 years ago, when offering 400k was backing up the Brinks truck. There’s “being constrained” and then there’s top 5 DC salaries. We weren’t matching that.


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[Skeptic]

Another interesting look, how Navy did in defensive FEI AFTER CPJ:

2008: 86
2009: 34
2010: 77
2011: 109
2012: 101
2013: 104
2014: 72
2015: 69
2016: 118
2017: 82

These numbers, as much as anything, tell the story of the spread option offense: Navy had excellent W-L records with a bad defense because it scored a bunch, and Johnson's success with bad defenses is all offense-related. It makes sense to me because Navy (and Army) would have the same recruiting problems as Tech. It is a crude way to put it, but just outscore 'em is the ticket, and that he can do. Unless, of course, the defense is so bad that we can't score enough. Good work.

 

[Philhutch80]

1st let me begin by saying I have always been a CPJ fan. I trust and believe that he can have more success with his offense at GT because you seldom get 4-5 star players on either side of the ball. Therefore you can beat more teams on scheme alone.

That being said. I think it's a double edged sword. I honestly think that for the defensive side of the ball it's like practicing tennis at a high level all week and then playing championship ping pong on weekends.

What they practice against during the week is nothing like what they play against on Saturdays.

Practice squads aren't like your competition either. If they were as good as your gameday competition they wouldn't be on the scout team. Jmho.

And you answered yourself. Scout teams have D1 level athletes like other teams do. The talent separation is so incredibly finite that you can get close enough. If it was not an effective strategy then why does every NCAA team and NFL team employ it regardless of scheme(granted NFL does not have variety with schemes vs CFB)??? This point has been talked about before many many times. Didn’t seem to bother the 08, 09, 14 & 16 teams though.

 

[Madison Grant]

As I pointed out in a reply yesterday, I have some serious doubts that FEI is norming us against a comparable statistical population. Opposing offenses, that know they are going to get fewer possessions against us are not going to run the same gameplan and sequence and frequency of plays they do against other opposing defenses, whose offenses they know are going to give them more possessions. I'm not saying that if you could somehow account for this, it would make our defenses rate any better. Might rate worse. Just that there is a different dynamic going on in our games than most of the rest of CFB. So for those who are hoping and wishing for defenses rated top third in FEI, be careful. You are asking our defense to achieve a certain ranking against a totally different set of offensive circumstances than 99% of the statistical input into FEI.

 

[GTNavyNuke]

.......... Practice squads aren't like your competition either. If they were as good as your gameday competition they wouldn't be on the scout team. Jmho.

Agree in general. I think one big advantage Clemson, Alabama and other elites have is their depth in practice.

Alabama's or Clemson's practice squad would probably be top 40?

We, and others like us (most teams), also don't have the depth and can't risk hurting players during the week.

All that said though, there is NO excuse for losing to Fluke or even letting them stay close in the game. Fluke destroyed our D which never should have happened.

 

[Bogey]

And you answered yourself. Scout teams have D1 level athletes like other teams do. The talent separation is so incredibly finite that you can get close enough. If it was not an effective strategy then why does every NCAA team and NFL team employ it regardless of scheme(granted NFL does not have variety with schemes vs CFB)??? This point has been talked about before many many times. Didn’t seem to bother the 08, 09, 14 & 16 teams though.

Personally I am a Roof fan. He is a Tech guy, great recruiter, and represents Tech well. I just cannot believe he is not smart enough to not be able to come up with a winning defensive scheme. Rather, i believe the PJ offense limited Roof's chances to practise against the speed and type defenses we see on Saturdays. But it may be the right time to move on with a new DC. Good defenses are played with emotion and motivation and to me it os near impossile to motivate when you are not with your team on the field of play. I am not happy with PJ's overall record at GT, we should srive for better. I figure PJ has at most 2-3 years left and we are right to give him another shot at a DC of his choice. If we do not improve dramatically under a new DC, then we definitely should abandon our present offense and move towards an offense that can be tweaked to take best adantage of the players we are able to recruit, and make our program more attractive to today's recruits. It is a different time now than it was in 2008 with regards to the number of quality players now coming out of HS in my opinion.

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[pbrown520]

These numbers, as much as anything, tell the story of the spread option offense: Navy had excellent W-L records with a bad defense because it scored a bunch, and Johnson's success with bad defenses is all offense-related. It makes sense to me because Navy (and Army) would have the same recruiting problems as Tech. It is a crude way to put it, but just outscore 'em is the ticket, and that he can do. Unless, of course, the defense is so bad that we can't score enough. Good work.

Except the AFA has had some pretty good defenses over the years (top 40).