Defenses that get teams off the field fastest

zhavenor

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So I have a question and maybe I'm missing it... If a team gives up a TD on the 2nd offensive play, ie before 2 first downs, that would be added as a plus in the statistic? Because if that is not accounted for then its a serious issue.
 

AE 87

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So I have a question and maybe I'm missing it... If a team gives up a TD on the 2nd offensive play, ie before 2 first downs, that would be added as a plus in the statistic? Because if that is not accounted for then its a serious issue.

Yeah, no raw stat is perfect, and that's a potential weakness here. However, it's not used as an alt to scoring D. It's measuring aggressiveness, or whatever, as part of the story not the whole story.
 

zhavenor

Jolly Good Fellow
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Yeah, no raw stat is perfect, and that's a potential weakness here. However, it's not used as an alt to scoring D. It's measuring aggressiveness, or whatever, as part of the story not the whole story.
I don't mind the thought but it's missing a step. It needs to be compared to ppd. If the teams that are off the field quickly, ie under six plays, are the top in ppd then yah you have something. Otherwise its honestly not telling you anything. You are simply left to infer that its advantageous without seeing any end results.
 

AE 87

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I don't mind the thought but it's missing a step. It needs to be compared to ppd. If the teams that are off the field quickly, ie under six plays, are the top in ppd then yah you have something. Otherwise its honestly not telling you anything. You are simply left to infer that its advantageous without seeing any end results.

Tifwiw. Just because it doesn't answer your question doesn't make it meaningless.

As the article says, Ds that get off the field fast are more likely to stay fresh longer. In 2012, 2013 we would've won some more games if we could've got off the field faster, even with same 1st half ppd because our D was done in the 3rd qtr, iirc.
 

zhavenor

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Tifwiw. Just because it doesn't answer your question doesn't make it meaningless.

As the article says, Ds that get off the field fast are more likely to stay fresh longer. In 2012, 2013 we would've won some more games if we could've got off the field faster, even with same 1st half ppd because our D was done in the 3rd qtr, iirc.
I don't think its meaningless but I think the argument the article is trying to make falls short because it does not connect the dots to its conclusion. Unless I'm mistaken it trying to saying that aggressive defenses are better defenses. But until you compare the stats they are showing to something like ppd or something comparable you have no real way to base the conclusion to it. The only think in there is teams are 66% likely to score on drives in which they achieve 2 first downs. Which is ok but still falls short of determining the overall effect of the aggressiveness.
 

33jacket

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look you have to look at a body of work for all statistics. Its like saying because an QB is in the top 3, they must have top 3 O. Of course not. Same with individual stats. You also can't compare team to team and draw a conclusion about D styles that work more. Some work better for certain personel then others, and some schools have way better players.

the facts remain, our defense, most recently under roof...tend to be stuck in the 60s, 70s, 80s, in stats. In general. That is where they reside. Could there be a stat anomaly where they are higher sure, in the 40s, sure. Could there be one on the low in the 90s, 100s, sure. They avg out.

but generally, just look at the work on the field. The stats just validate it. The work on the field is not good IMO. Bad 3rd down work. Bad at pressure. Struggle in power zone plays. Struggle in the flats continually; we leave the flats so open. Partially due to too aggressive LB flow and undisciplined work; which for me is back at the coaching of the position and the scheme putting you in the right spots.

When you watch the best DC's, much like the best OC's, they have their bread and butter and philosophy they stick to; and most of their calls are off this.

- Bud foster is his man scheme; you know what you are getting
- Gary Patterson has a complex 2 half field zone, that rocks. I freaking love it.
- When tenuta was here, he had a 3deep zone dog scheme that really too advantage of other teams blocking schemes
- Rex Ryan, has his 3-4 with bear fronts; high pressure complex pre snap mixes
- Wade Philips has his 3-4 2/3deep with a ton of zone dogs etc

What is roofs? I just can't describe what his method is. And other times, what he does is so basic, so like junior basic, its no wonder they get shredded.

But I will say looking at this list...in general; based on what I see on film watching the games
Venables aggressive
Foster aggressive
Tenuta (stat from tenuta before howell) aggressive
Grantham aggressive
The top 4 SEC D's minus maybe Bama which is balanced are aggressive styles, heavy pressure packages and blitzes
Big Ten...I don't know them as much; But Iowa is not generally an aggressive D by scheme. mich St is.
Ariz St is very scheme aggressive, Stanford is not.
Baylor Ok TCU all very scheme aggressive.

Just looking at the list most of the top teams; actually really all but Bama are generally considered scheme aggressive. Now, there are some at the bottom that are scheme aggressive too.

So all this means is scheme aggressive doesn't equal 3rd down success....but generally the best teams use an aggressive style and more than the other styles....it seems to be better.
 

MacJacket

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Great post @33jacket ! I like Roof as a recruiter and mentor to the kids, but I think you hit the nail on the head. Even while he had talent at Auburn, his defense was underwhelming. I'd love to see a more aggressive defense.
 

dressedcheeseside

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Great post @33jacket ! I like Roof as a recruiter and mentor to the kids, but I think you hit the nail on the head. Even while he had talent at Auburn, his defense was underwhelming. I'd love to see a more aggressive defense.
I wonder if he'd be more aggressive if he had the talent for it? Maybe he thinks bend-don't-break, or bend-and-break-but-take-a-long-time is a better match for our offense and our defensive personnel?
 

GaTech4ever

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I wonder if he'd be more aggressive if he had the talent for it? Maybe he thinks bend-don't-break, or bend-and-break-but-take-a-long-time is a better match for our offense and our defensive personnel?
I don't understand why this is such a hard concept to understand. It doesn't mean that the coaching is not to blame at all. It can be a combination of lack of talent/coaching.
 

AE 87

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I don't understand why this is such a hard concept to understand. It doesn't mean that the coaching is not to blame at all. It can be a combination of lack of talent/coaching.

It's not a hard concept to understand. Just because people disagree doesn't mean they don't understand.

@33jacket your post included reference to position coaching. Fwiw, I think our LBs looked much more disciplined in the Spring game.

I'm looking forward to big improvement.
 

GaTech4ever

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@AE 87 Not trying to open this can of worms again, but I am legitimately confused as to how you think our talent level on D is not a significant issue. It's definitely not great recruiting classes, and it's definitely not the # of players Roof has coached that are playing in the NFL. What makes you disagree?
 

MacJacket

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I wonder if he'd be more aggressive if he had the talent for it? Maybe he thinks bend-don't-break, or bend-and-break-but-take-a-long-time is a better match for our offense and our defensive personnel?
Perhaps, but my point was that he had the talent at Auburn and his defense was not very good. Were they aggressive? I have no idea. But he had Nick Fairley as well as other NFL players at his disposal.
 

AE 87

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@AE 87 Not trying to open this can of worms again, but I am legitimately confused as to how you think our talent level on D is not a significant issue. It's definitely not great recruiting classes, and it's definitely not the # of players Roof has coached that are playing in the NFL. What makes you disagree?

I think overall talent level is a factor in not being top 20. I don't think it's enough to explain not being top 40.
 

vamosjackets

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It seems to me it's important to have an identity - to have a philosophy that you believe in, can recruit to, and can teach. Now, maybe not all philosophies are created equal, in fact, it's obvious they're not, but having one is better than not having one. You can be successful as a super aggressive defense like Tenuta's or with a more base defense like Spaz at BC for a while. You can be successful as a triple-option offense like CPJ or an air-raid like Leach. But you've got to be good at something, you've got to believe in it, rep the ever-lovin'-crap out of of it, teach it to the guys, recruit to it, and fit guys in it to their strengths. Tenuta was great at that. CPJ is great at that. I played (practiced is a better word) for Tenuta 13 years ago, and I can still tell you what our philosophy and identity was. The message still rings in my head.

Is Roof great at that? I think my biggest question right now is: what is our identity/philsophy on defense? What is our message or core beliefs or non-negotiables? These are just different parsings of the same question. I want Roof to succeed very badly, and/but I also want to have a great defense at GT again.
 
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