Damon Stoudamire

[YlJacket]

There have been several quotes about CDS being honest that he's looking to make himself more marketable and that HE could look good/win big, etc. Of course sometimes quotes aren't taken fully in context. But he does still seem to have at least one eye still on the NBA.
Do any of y'all think he will be a long-time coach for us, even with a 5-yr contract should the NBA come a-calling?
Hopefully he can set up something that would be sustainable even if he did leave in a couple of years.

Who cares. This is the concept that drives me nuts. Any decent coach is going to look out for his interests and I hope to god we/he are doing well enough that everyone in the whole NCAA wants him. It is up to us to keep him. That is the tension in a high achieving college sports program. I just want to get to the high achieving level. CDS does that and I will wish him well if he goes wherever because we can't step up.

We are a bottom of the ACC program at the moment. If CDS gets us to a point where other teams want to poach him we should be jumping for joy. I don't get the concept that we should worry about who we hire because they might look to move on. Gotta hope they have that opportunity.

 

[kg01]

There have been several quotes about CDS being honest that he's looking to make himself more marketable and that HE could look good/win big, etc. Of course sometimes quotes aren't taken fully in context. But he does still seem to have at least one eye still on the NBA.
Do any of y'all think he will be a long-time coach for us, even with a 5-yr contract should the NBA come a-calling?
Hopefully he can set up something that would be sustainable even if he did leave in a couple of years.

If he leaves for a "better" or bigger job, that means he was demonstrably more successful than our last few coaches, which is good for us still.

Because that means we're in a better position to attract a good replacement, both perceptionally (is that a word?) and monetarily.

Long story long, if he leaves that's still a version of a positive outcome for GT.

Also I'd say one doesn't make himself more marketable to the nba by leaving the 1-seed (at the time) midseason to go back to college.

Lastly, I listened to the interview where he explained wanting to make himself more marketable. It sounded more like he was trying to make himself more marketable for a job like the one he now has. Just my 2 cents.

 

[ESPNjacket]

Who cares. This is the concept that drives me nuts. Any decent coach is going to look out for his interests and I hope to god we/he are doing well enough that everyone in the whole NCAA wants him. It is up to us to keep him. That is the tension in a high achieving college sports program. I just want to get to the high achieving level. CDS does that and I will wish him well if he goes wherever because we can't step up.

We are a bottom of the ACC program at the moment. If CDS gets us to a point where other teams want to poach him we should be jumping for joy. I don't get the concept that we should worry about who we hire because they might look to move on. Gotta hope they have that opportunity.

The last GT basketball coach to leave for a "bigger job" was ... uh .... what was his name? Uh .... hmmm

The insecurity of our fan base is amazing.

 

[kg01]

Who cares. This is the concept that drives me nuts. Any decent coach is going to look out for his interests and I hope to god we/he are doing well enough that everyone in the whole NCAA wants him. It is up to us to keep him. That is the tension in a high achieving college sports program. I just want to get to the high achieving level. CDS does that and I will wish him well if he goes wherever because we can't step up.

We are a bottom of the ACC program at the moment. If CDS gets us to a point where other teams want to poach him we should be jumping for joy. I don't get the concept that we should worry about who we hire because they might look to move on. Gotta hope they have that opportunity.

In his defense, it ain't like we know what 'that' looks like. 'That' being the idea that we have a coach other people want.

Nothing wrong with asking the question. Now he's educated. That's all.

 

[GT33]

You mean that he's successful enough that other jobs will be available to him and that school or organization will pay us (supposedly) millions of dollars if he decides to leave?

I know you’re responding to another post but it’s always comical to me when we have fans worried about GT sports becoming too successful. The coach gwts more expensive, other people will want to “steal him away”, tickets prices will go up, damn parking becomes a problem because too many show up for games, etc. We certainly got some weird phobias.

 

[slugboy]

If he leaves for a "better" or bigger job, that means he was demonstrably more successful than our last few coaches, which is good for us still.

Because that means we're in a better position to attract a good replacement, both perceptionally (is that a word?) and monetarily.

Long story long, if he leaves that's still a version of a positive outcome for GT.

Also I'd say one doesn't make himself more marketable to the nba by leaving the 1-seed (at the time) midseason to go back to college.

Lastly, I listened to the interview where he explained wanting to make himself more marketable. It sounded more like he was trying to make himself more marketable for a job like the one he now has. Just my 2 cents.

To some extent, you need to make yourself more marketable to recruit effectively. It’s even more important to make your program more marketable—more people know “Gonzaga” for basketball than can name Mark Few, but Few basically is Gonzaga basketball.
As an assistant coach, your brand is your brand, but as a head coach, the program’s brand is your brand.
TL;DR: build the program’s brand and AD’s will want you

The last GT basketball coach to leave for a "bigger job" was ... uh .... what was his name? Uh .... hmmm

The insecurity of our fan base is amazing.

If we learned a lesson from Hewitt—and we should have learned a lot of lessons—one lesson is that we shouldn’t be afraid of a successful coach leaving. It’s more important to be a good home to a successful coach.

One lesson for coaches to learn from Gonzaga is that you can make your current home into your upgrade home, and that can work out better.

 

[ESPNjacket]

One lesson for coaches to learn from Gonzaga is that you can make your current home into your upgrade home, and that can work out better.

Insecurity led to Braine awarding Hewitt basically a perpetual 7 year contract that had a domino affect on our athletic programs for decades.

If a good coach leaves, it's up to GT to find a good coach to replace him. No sense in putting GT behind an 8 ball to keep a coach or make bad hires. Unfortunately, that's what we've been doing.

Insecurity didn't lead to the Hewitt contract. That was trying to get away with paying less. The never ending contract was offered instead of more money. Being cheap and having a cheapskate mentality has been very damaging to GT sports. It needs to end. I think the people currently in charge understand that.

 

[slugboy]

Insecurity didn't lead to the Hewitt contract. That was trying to get away with paying less. The never ending contract was offered instead of more money. Being cheap and having a cheapskate mentality has been very damaging to GT sports. It needs to end. I think the people currently in charge understand that.

They’re related—it was lock-in for a coach we wanted to keep and it kept other teams from poaching him for more money (we were more worried about the NBA)

Being cheap is very expensive

 

[lv20gt]

If we learned a lesson from Hewitt—and we should have learned a lot of lessons—one lesson is that we shouldn’t be afraid of a successful coach leaving. It’s more important to be a good home to a successful coach.

The biggest thing to learn from Hewitt is to not try to substitute job security for base pay. It's one thing to be outbid for a coach. It's another to let one walk because you are too cheap to make a good offer. The second doesn't build a good home for a successful coach.

 

[ESPNjacket]

They’re related—it was lock-in for a coach we wanted to keep and it kept other teams from poaching him for more money (we were more worried about the NBA)

Being cheap is very expensive

In retrospect it is funny to think he was once a hot name for the NBA. I figured he might go and hoped we could get Mike Brey. Man, that was a long time ago.

As you said, we paid a LOT for being cheap then.

 

[Techster]

They’re related—it was lock-in for a coach we wanted to keep and it kept other teams from poaching him for more money (we were more worried about the NBA)

Being cheap is very expensive

@ESPNjacket

I agree with @slugboy . If Braine thought we could have done better or even maintain Hewitt's level, I think there's no way we offer Hewitt one of the worst contracts in college sports at that time. Unfortunately, that's GT's inferiority complex. It's not all on Braine even though he was the architect of that contract, Donors and the board still had to approve the contract.

The funny thing is, Hewitt had success at the time, and there were very few college programs that could have poached him away from GT. Maybe the bluebloods (UCLA, Kentucky, etc.), but GT was a pretty good job at the time that had enough resources for a coach to be successful...AND we were recruiting Atlanta and nationally pretty well. That was also coming off the Cremins years with almost regular NCAAT appearances. The perception of GT, at least from my non-gold tinted glasses, was GTBB was just a step below the elite bluebloods, but a program that could compete with them on the court regularly. Far cry from where we are now.

 

[Novajacket]

I think the big thing that is missed is that a coach that would rather have more security then more money is basically not betting on themselves. That doesn’t actually incentivize them to maintain a program at a certain level. That was one of my issues with Collins 7 yr contract. He wasn’t secure enough in his abilities to improve things to do a standard 5 yr.

 

[ESPNjacket]

@ESPNjacket

I agree with @slugboy . If Braine thought we could have done better or even maintain Hewitt's level, I think there's no way we offer Hewitt one of the worst contracts in college sports at that time. Unfortunately, that's GT's inferiority complex. It's not all on Braine even though he was the architect of that contract, Donors and the board still had to approve the contract.

The funny thing is, Hewitt had success at the time, and there were very few college programs that could have poached him away from GT. Maybe the bluebloods (UCLA, Kentucky, etc.), but GT was a pretty good job at the time that had enough resources for a coach to be successful...AND we were recruiting Atlanta and nationally pretty well. That was also coming off the Cremins years with almost regular NCAAT appearances. The perception of GT, at least from my non-gold tinted glasses, was GTBB was just a step below the elite bluebloods, but a program that could compete with them on the court regularly. Far cry from where we are now.

I think your perception of GT basketball at that time was correct and I don't think Braine thought differently. He was just being cheap.

 

[LawTalkin Jacket]

Novajacket hit it. The best coaches have big egos and/or chips on shoulder that fuel them even after they have made a ton of money and win championships. Hewitt imo got paid and went to final four so 2 of his major life goals were reached and so he was far less motivated when given that contract then when he was earning it. maybe same for CBG who went from lifelong assistant to "never have to work again" money. I would not say Paster wasn't hungry as he seems very motivated, if nothing else.

But, human nature makes it really hard to grind after getting the $25m guaranteed contract and after winning championship like you did when you were making $660k as a coordinator hoping to get the head job or working as an underappreciated head coach who no one thinks can be a champion. I don't blame guys for that , as I would like to get a $25m contract and would be like Ed Orgeron when they fire me- "where's the door?"

its the uncommon mental makeup that makes great coaches in many instances (always exceptions) who continue the grind after winning and making money. same for athletes.

 

[dtm1997]

Novajacket hit it. The best coaches have big egos and/or chips on shoulder that fuel them even after they have made a ton of money and win championships. Hewitt imo got paid and went to final four so 2 of his major life goals were reached and so he was far less motivated when given that contract then when he was earning it. maybe same for CBG who went from lifelong assistant to "never have to work again" money. I would not say Paster wasn't hungry as he seems very motivated, if nothing else.

But, human nature makes it really hard to grind after getting the $25m guaranteed contract and after winning championship like you did when you were making $660k as a coordinator hoping to get the head job or working as an underappreciated head coach who no one thinks can be a champion. I don't blame guys for that , as I would like to get a $25m contract and would be like Ed Orgeron when they fire me- "where's the door?"

its the uncommon mental makeup that makes great coaches in many instances (always exceptions) who continue the grind after winning and making money. same for athletes.

Brian Gregory was head coach at Dayton and at GT only made $1MM/year, which was part of the problem... LazyAD was cheap, treating GT Hoops like a second class citizen.

 

[kg01]

I think the best thing I've noticed is, until a few days ago, the first picture that pops up when you google 'Damon Stoudamire' was of Amare Stoudamire.

Now it's a pic of Damon Lamon S., GT coach.

 

[lv20gt]

I think the big thing that is missed is that a coach that would rather have more security then more money is basically not betting on themselves. That doesn’t actually incentivize them to maintain a program at a certain level. That was one of my issues with Collins 7 yr contract. He wasn’t secure enough in his abilities to improve things to do a standard 5 yr.

There is no indication that Collins had the option of more upfront money on a 5 year contract.

 

[GTNavyNuke]

I dont want to combine two different things. I literally don't care to know and I don't think anyone needs to know.

That said, no AD wants to give away trade secrets so everyone is evasive in explaining how a hire happens. Thats not specific to us.

As I said earlier, I expect the process to include discussing positions with candidates (or their representatives) before they're actually open.

I just think the way our guys are explaining it struck me as odd.

I hope Batt has worked on Hall's replacement. Just in case he decides to retire (of course).

 

[King2b]

Not to derail the AD discussion, but is CDS active on Twitter or do we have any insight on how his transition is going with recruiting and assistant coaches?

 

[slugboy]

Not to derail the AD discussion, but is CDS active on Twitter or do we have any insight on how his transition is going with recruiting and assistant coaches?

He makes some posts at https://twitter.com/Iambiggie503.

As the entire basketball coaching staff (for the time being), he might be swamped and not tweeting as much.

Theories have been shared that coaches might be hired after the tourney, or that the tourney may be a source of interviews.