Damon Stoudamire

[RamblinRed]

Except for the academics, which I'd call manageable for the appropriately motivated players, everything is fixable. The appropriately motivated players, willing to meet the academic standards, is a smaller overall pool and being able, doesn't mean wanting to.

The will & investment to fix that which is fixable has been lacking significantly, dating back to Hewitt's firing or a bit earlier.

The lack of will & investment has created a long-standing view that the GT job is not a good one. Investment has long been needed in staff salaries, staff positions, bag dropping (now NIL), recruiting budget (better travel, database & scouting access, etc.) facilities (locker room, trainings, etc.; Not McCamish where we watching games).

Net net - perception is reality. The GT job is difficult and viewed as lower tier among High Majors. That said, it has plenty of potential to be elevated with the right vision, will, and investment.

Seems we may be at that inflection point to head towards good job status (it will always be difficult to a degree), but let's see if it comes through.

Agree with all of this. The bolded part is the big piece.
The pool GT can recruit from is smaller than the pool that most of its competitors recruit from. That's just a simple fact and has been the case since post-Stephen Marbury, whose lack of academic interest left a sour taste in some mouths. It is also unlikely to change.
I've talked to multiple coaches over the years and generally they have a database of prospects they are interested in. Once they get the first official transcripts from high schools - generally at the end of Jr yr - they drop 40-50% of the prospects in the database.
Academics also impact the transfer portal for GT. Given how GT applies credit from other schools, transfers sometimes get less credit and/or credit not applied to majors than a transfer will get at other schools.

It feels like GT is looking to put more investment into fixing the program and that will hopefully help. Stoudamire building a winning program will help more than anything else.

 

[mstranahan]

Academics is a legit issue for a portion of the P5 base. (Northwestern, Vanderbilt, and others come to mind) it isn't hard to look at the admissions stats for schools to see which ones are more academically rigorous. I think the variable that is hard to see from the outside is the leniency the admissions office & administration have with regard to athletics.

I went to a D3 school, so no TV money or scholarships to worry about. We still knew we had three "leans" every year in admissions. We could get 3 kids in who were qualified, but on the lower end of the academic scale. They still had to go to class, do the work, etc and there were no slide classes. But we got in as many as three each year who wouldn't ordinarily have gotten in. Hoops was their admissions pass. (Football and soccer also had some "leans") To be fair, the rich parent & alumni connections got far more knuckleheads in than athletics did.

ETA: Last year, my alma mater accepted 8% of applicants. I know they got in 5 kids for hoops and 2 of them had SATs that would be deal killers without athletics. So the system is still working like it did back in the day.

My understanding (very much third hand) is that during the Cremins years, he got in anyone he wanted and no one cared about academics. Ditto during the early Hewitt years. At some point, the administration clamped down and said they would only admit kids who were at least marginally qualified. Based on casual observation, I still believe GT athletics gets kids in who would never get in otherwise. (This is true, IMO, at every D1 &D2 school and probably most D3)

Will be interesting if the administration loosens up at all and allows CBK & CDS to get in the more marginal kids or if they stay with the current approach

 

[dtm1997]

Exception admissions for football & basketball have remained/been back in place for a while.

There are a limited amount, but quite good majors (Business, HTD, LMC) where less academically inclined, but solidly academically motivated student athletes can do well enough to, at minimum, remain eligible and possibly excel.

Bottom line is that a kid willing to put in the work once they're here, they can get through GT and compete as an eligible student-athlete.

PS - all of the players I tutored got at least C's, including Stephon Marbury, which was the goal I was given.

 

[TooTall]

PS - all of the players I tutored got at least C's, including Stephon Marbury, which was the goal I was given.

First semester of course.

 

[LargeFO]

Exception admissions for football & basketball have remained/been back in place for a while.

There are a limited amount, but quite good majors (Business, HTD, LMC) where less academically inclined, but solidly academically motivated student athletes can do well enough to, at minimum, remain eligible and possibly excel.

Bottom line is that a kid willing to put in the work once they're here, they can get through GT and compete as an eligible student-athlete.

PS - all of the players I tutored got at least C's, including Stephon Marbury, which was the goal I was given.

This. Especially for basketball where you need 4-5ish guys a cycle. Easily attainable.

 

[dtm1997]

First semester of course.

2nd quarter

 

[dtm1997]

This. Especially for basketball where you need 4-5ish guys a cycle. Easily attainable.

It's not easily attainable. Takes a lot of dominos falling. It's just that the path exists to make it work sustainably.

 

[LargeFO]

It's not easily attainable. Takes a lot of dominos falling. It's just that the path exists to make it work sustainably.

I'm just saying it should be a little easier to find 4 or 5 guys than 25 for football.

 

[ESPNjacket]

2nd quarter

So the urban legend that Marbury only went to class for one quarter was exactly that, an urban legend.

 

[kg01]

2nd quarter

I remember hating the conversion to semesters.

 

[leatherneckjacket]

I remember hating the conversion to semesters.

I got out right before the Olympics and well before the conversion to Semesters.

 

[dtm1997]

I'm just saying it should be a little easier to find 4 or 5 guys than 25 for football.

This I agree with.

 

[dtm1997]

So the urban legend that Marbury only went to class for one quarter was exactly that, an urban legend.

Correct. He only skipped the Spring quarter, although he still lived on campus.

 

[Steverc]

What Stoudamire lacks in charisma he makes up for in monotony.

 

[LargeFO]

What Stoudamire lacks in charisma he makes up for in monotony.

??

 

[Roswellgoldmember]

Academics is a legit issue for a portion of the P5 base. (Northwestern, Vanderbilt, and others come to mind) it isn't hard to look at the admissions stats for schools to see which ones are more academically rigorous. I think the variable that is hard to see from the outside is the leniency the admissions office & administration have with regard to athletics.

I went to a D3 school, so no TV money or scholarships to worry about. We still knew we had three "leans" every year in admissions. We could get 3 kids in who were qualified, but on the lower end of the academic scale. They still had to go to class, do the work, etc and there were no slide classes. But we got in as many as three each year who wouldn't ordinarily have gotten in. Hoops was their admissions pass. (Football and soccer also had some "leans") To be fair, the rich parent & alumni connections got far more knuckleheads in than athletics did.

ETA: Last year, my alma mater accepted 8% of applicants. I know they got in 5 kids for hoops and 2 of them had SATs that would be deal killers without athletics. So the system is still working like it did back in the day.

My understanding (very much third hand) is that during the Cremins years, he got in anyone he wanted and no one cared about academics. Ditto during the early Hewitt years. At some point, the administration clamped down and said they would only admit kids who were at least marginally qualified. Based on casual observation, I still believe GT athletics gets kids in who would never get in otherwise. (This is true, IMO, at every D1 &D2 school and probably most D3)

Will be interesting if the administration loosens up at all and allows CBK & CDS to get in the more marginal kids or if th

 

[Roswellgoldmember]

Virtually all athletes, both revenue and non revenue, are exceptions to the standard admission process. Unless the athlete has a 1500 SAT with 11 AP courses then they are are exception because that's what our students look like. Your typical UGA student has a 1400 SAT and 9 AP classes. Admission standards have risen significantly, almost exponentially across most state universities.

I won't douche up this thread anymore but I think GT fans exaggerate and sometime fabricate academic roadblocks for student athletes. People on this thread have pointed out how hard it is to get transfers admitted. Our previous football coach took 12 - 15 transfers per year for 3+ years. Pastner lived off of transfers.

I don't like it but I think it's moving in the other direction, people recognize that they are primarily revenue generating athletes and the academics are secondary. It's a screwed up system but it is what it is.

I think we stopped being relevant in basketball because we hired 2 mediocre to bad coaches and kept them around for 12 years. I do think at some point significant payments to high level basketball players became more common and shoe companies were involved, both of which hurt us. I base this on the FBI/Adidas wiretaps.

 

[dtm1997]

Virtually all athletes, both revenue and non revenue, are exceptions to the standard admission process. Unless the athlete has a 1500 SAT with 11 AP courses then they are are exception because that's what our students look like. Your typical UGA student has a 1400 SAT and 9 AP classes. Admission standards have risen significantly, almost exponentially across most state universities.

I won't douche up this thread anymore but I think GT fans exaggerate and sometime fabricate academic roadblocks for student athletes. People on this thread have pointed out how hard it is to get transfers admitted. Our previous football coach took 12 - 15 transfers per year for 3+ years. Pastner lived off of transfers.

I don't like it but I think it's moving in the other direction, people recognize that they are primarily revenue generating athletes and the academics are secondary. It's a screwed up system but it is what it is.

I think we stopped being relevant in basketball because we hired 2 mediocre to bad coaches and kept them around for 12 years. I do think at some point significant payments to high level basketball players became more common and shoe companies were involved, both of which hurt us. I base this on the FBI/Adidas wiretaps.

Note that the first mediocre to bad coach was hired because our AD was lazy as **** when it came to basketball.

The second was hired because many (not a few, not multiple, many) coaches took a pass because they didn't think they'd be positioned to win, based on resources, facilities, and academics. The second raised his hand and his prior employer paid us (see mention of resources).

 

[Steverc]

??

Have you heard him in a press conference. I will save you the boredom, don't bother. He's all cliches and safe answers.

 

[bob4gt]

The main academic change is progress toward a degree. At Tech, there is much less flexibility in the courses one can take to graduate than there is at most other schools. A sociology degree has many fewer required courses.

Bob