CPJ laying the wood to the media

[awbuzz]

I believe that was one of the games that Tech blew out the opponent. I think it was something like this: Justin Thomas was in at quarterback and made a long run for a TD. Johnson had wanted him to just slide down and not run up the score. He was telling Thomas, who was returning to the sideline after the TD, that he shouldn't have done that.

I think that was the Elon game...

 

[Tech First]

I think that was the Elon game...

I believe it was Syracuse.

 

[Lexjacket]

I think that was the Elon game...

It was the Elon game. We had stomped a mud puddle in them and walked it dry. CPJ put Justin Thomas in and told him if he got in the open to run out of bounds. Justin got open and ran about 65 yards for a touchdown. It was hot and humid about 98 in the shade; made CPJ's hair frizzy.

 

[Dustman]

But we don't only play conference games. How do we stack up in conference with overall record the past 3 years?

Great point if we all play the same ooc teams.

 

[Squints]

But we don't only play conference games. How do we stack up in conference with overall record the past 3 years?

So we're just gonna disregard any disparity of opponents in that analysis?

 

[AE 87]

So we're just gonna disregard any disparity of opponents in that analysis?

Yes, of course.

 

[daBuzz]

So we're just gonna disregard any disparity of opponents in that analysis?

LOL, some of you guys are hilarious.

I admit, I don't like CPJ. But regardless of who the coach is, we judge them based on the entire year's record. We don't just pick and choose on ACC.

Do I care who the other teams played? No. I don't. And last time I checked, ESPN and the BCS didn't say "Well you should be in the top 25 because you kicked *** in your league. Despite having a .500 overall record."

Doesn't work that way. And FYI, we played some pretty crappy out of conference teams last year.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

And FYI, we played some pretty crappy out of conference teams last year.

yeah, UGA and BYU really sucked.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

yeah, UGA, BYU and Ole Miss really sucked.

 

[daBuzz]

yeah, UGA and BYU really sucked.

ZERO of those three were ranked in the top 25 at the end of the season. They were decent teams but let's not make them out to be world beaters. UGA even had a QB starting his first game ever against us.

And let's also look at the patsies we DID play. Elon, Alabama A&M, Virginia and Syracuse were all atrocious. Also, FWIW we played Duke without their starting QB as well. Pitt was not really a good team, finishing at 7-6.

The only really decent teams we played were Virginia Tech (sort a stretch because they finished 8-5), Miami (finished 9-4 but they were a much better team with Duke Johnson when they played us), and Clemson.

Bragging about being the one of the best teams in the ACC most years is like bragging about being the tallest midget. I think we should set our sights a bit higher than that.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

ZERO of those three were ranked in the top 25 at the end of the season. They were decent teams but let's not make them out to be world beaters. UGA even had a QB starting his first game ever against us.

And let's also look at the patsies we DID play. Elon, Alabama A&M, Virginia and Syracuse were all atrocious. Also, FWIW we played Duke without their starting QB as well. Pitt was not really a good team, finishing at 7-6.

The only really decent teams we played were Virginia Tech (sort a stretch because they finished 8-5), Miami (finished 9-4 but they were a much better team with Duke Johnson when they played us), and Clemson.

Bragging about being the one of the best teams in the ACC most years is like bragging about being the tallest midget. I think we should set our sights a bit higher than that.

The ACC is no different top to bottom than any other conference. It has it's elite, middle of the road and patsy teams. Find me a conference that does not have a tiered ladder of strength.

As far as Uga and BYU go, Uga has 4 times the star power of GT and that's including their injured players and not including ours. BYU has one of the highest home winning percentages in all of college football and guess where we played them..... that's right.

 

[daBuzz]

The ACC is no different top to bottom than any other conference. It has it's elite, middle of the road and patsy teams. Find me a conference that does not have a tiered ladder of strength.

As far as Uga and BYU go, Uga has 4 times the star power of GT and that's including their injured players and not including ours. BYU has one of the highest home winning percentages in all of college football and guess where we played them..... that's right.

I don't disagree with you about the conferences. I know they all have top/mid/bottom teams...even the SEC. I have never argued otherwise. But don't you think it's a sad state of affairs when BYU has dominated us two years in a row? A team that isn't even in the top 25? And we're using them as a "strength of schedule" argument?

I know that you and I won't agree on this and that's all right. But I'm not a stats junkie in football. I believe stats are incredibly valuable in baseball...a sport in which, if you fail 70% of the time and do it all your life, you're going into the Hall of Fame. With so much expected failure there, I believe stats play a useful part in telling you who is contributing and who isn't.

But in football, there has been and will be only one stat about which I give a flip....final record. In college football, if you win just 50% of your games, you get to go to a bowl game. But the final record is what eventually counts and determines if you're a relevant team or not. And I personally believe it's a very sad state of GT football when we really aren't even talking about top 25 any of the past 3 years...and while we're on that subject, does anyone believe we will end the season next year in the top 25...with a new QB who has taken somewhere in the ballpark of maybe 100 snaps, if that many?

I get CPJ's point. However, just like fans of CPJ like to castigate others for only wanting to look at the last 3 years instead of the entire body of work, CPJ is cherry-picking the stats that he wanted to use to prove his point. I think when you consider CPJ, you have to consider all the years he has coached here and give him credit for 2 very good years. He exceeded all expectations in 2008 and even beat the dreaded mutts. In 2009, we won the ACC championship (and FWIW, I could give a rat's arse about whether the ACC took it back because of some measly $300 sweater incident or not) and he should not only be commended but applauded for that. But the last 3 years have trended very poorly down. I am willing to give him NO credit for making the ACCCG in 2012 because we did it with a 6-6 record and left the ACCCG with a losing record and had to get a special exemption just to go to a bowl game...not exactly the pinnacle of coaching success, in my book.

My point: what's the final record? Because that's all I really care about as a football fan of GT football.

 

[CuseJacket]

I don't disagree with you about the conferences. I know they all have top/mid/bottom teams...even the SEC. I have never argued otherwise. But don't you think it's a sad state of affairs when BYU has dominated us two years in a row? A team that isn't even in the top 25? And we're using them as a "strength of schedule" argument?

I know that you and I won't agree on this and that's all right. But I'm not a stats junkie in football. I believe stats are incredibly valuable in baseball...a sport in which, if you fail 70% of the time and do it all your life, you're going into the Hall of Fame. With so much expected failure there, I believe stats play a useful part in telling you who is contributing and who isn't.

But in football, there has been and will be only one stat about which I give a flip....final record. In college football, if you win just 50% of your games, you get to go to a bowl game. But the final record is what eventually counts and determines if you're a relevant team or not. And I personally believe it's a very sad state of GT football when we really aren't even talking about top 25 any of the past 3 years...and while we're on that subject, does anyone believe we will end the season next year in the top 25...with a new QB who has taken somewhere in the ballpark of maybe 100 snaps, if that many?

I get CPJ's point. However, just like fans of CPJ like to castigate others for only wanting to look at the last 3 years instead of the entire body of work, CPJ is cherry-picking the stats that he wanted to use to prove his point. I think when you consider CPJ, you have to consider all the years he has coached here and give him credit for 2 very good years. He exceeded all expectations in 2008 and even beat the dreaded mutts. In 2009, we won the ACC championship (and FWIW, I could give a rat's arse about whether the ACC took it back because of some measly $300 sweater incident or not) and he should not only be commended but applauded for that. But the last 3 years have trended very poorly down. I am willing to give him NO credit for making the ACCCG in 2012 because we did it with a 6-6 record and left the ACCCG with a losing record and had to get a special exemption just to go to a bowl game...not exactly the pinnacle of coaching success, in my book.

My point: what's the final record? Because that's all I really care about as a football fan of GT football.

Our non-Coastal opponents last year were Elon, Alabama A&M, BYU, UGA, Clemson, Syracuse
Duke's non-Coastal opponents last year were N Carolina Central, Memphis, Troy, Navy, NC State, Wake Forest

Do you think we'd have lost to any of those opponents on Duke's schedule? If the answer is no, or even if you're willing to consider that the answer is no, then we would have been 10-2 last year and in the ACCCG vs. Florida State.

If final record is truly all that matters we're perfectly capable of making a change to scheduling the Duke way. I doubt W's and L's are truly all that matters to you as you stated though. All schedules are not created equal. Consequently ACC opponents, or even just Coastal opponents, are a clearer way to compare apples to apples.

Now should CPJ include GT's 2008 or 2009 record as an indicator of his recruiting ability? That seems like a stretch and an oversimplification of cause and effect. To a point that's already been made, after removing those two years GT is still 4th in the ACC in W/L record during CPJ's tenure.

 

[Dustman]

I get CPJ's point.

That's what this thread is about. Ranking recruiting classes. Are we averaging the 4th best ACC class ranking under PJ? We were #12 this year.

 

[daBuzz]

Our non-Coastal opponents last year were Elon, Alabama A&M, BYU, UGA, Clemson, Syracuse
Duke's non-Coastal opponents last year were N Carolina Central, Memphis, Troy, Navy, NC State, Wake Forest

Do you think we'd have lost to any of those opponents on Duke's schedule? If the answer is no, or even if you're willing to consider that the answer is no, then we would have been 10-2 last year and in the ACCCG vs. Florida State.

If final record is truly all that matters we're perfectly capable of making a change to scheduling the Duke way. I doubt W's and L's are truly all that matters to you as you stated though. All schedules are not created equal. Consequently ACC opponents, or even just Coastal opponents, are a clearer way to compare apples to apples.

Now should CPJ include GT's 2008 or 2009 record as an indicator of his recruiting ability? That seems like a stretch and an oversimplification of cause and effect. To a point that's already been made, after removing those two years GT is still 4th in the ACC in W/L record during CPJ's tenure.

Great. So we're 4th in the ACC in wins. Now name me which team was 4th in wins in the SEC last year...same with B1G, same with Pac 10? Point is...no one gives a crap about that.

And you can doubt all you want. But I can assure you I care about the W's and the L's and that's it.

As far as schedules are concerned, I think we play a candy-assed schedule as it is...and that's part of the reason why the attendance was so bad last year so no, I definitely don't want that watered down.

 

[daBuzz]

That's what this thread is about. Ranking recruiting classes. Are we averaging the 4th best ACC class ranking under PJ? We were #12 this year.

Actually this thread was really about CPJ and his comments to the media. He's contending that he's coaching the players up and that's the reason we're 4th best in the ACC in wins. My point is that he's choosing the stat that makes him look the best...much the same way that his detractors want to only choose the last 3 years of wins/losses to make him look bad.

So I'm saying look at the whole body of work.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Actually this thread was really about CPJ and his comments to the media. He's contending that he's coaching the players up and that's the reason we're 4th best in the ACC in wins. My point is that he's choosing the stat that makes him look the best...much the same way that his detractors want to only choose the last 3 years of wins/losses to make him look bad.

So I'm saying look at the whole body of work.

I think you completely mistook his comments. His point is that his classes aren't bad the services say they are and that is evidenced by his record. In fact, he points out it's not coaching when he jokes "And you guys tell me that's not the case..." or something like that.

 

[CuseJacket]

And you can doubt all you want. But I can assure you I care about the W's and the L's and that's it.

As far as schedules are concerned, I think we play a candy-assed schedule as it is...and that's part of the reason why the attendance was so bad last year so no, I definitely don't want that watered down.

So you care about strength of schedule in addition to W's and L's. That seems to be acknowledgement that not all W's are the same.

I don't fault CPJ for comparing his performance against a common denominator of ACC opponents. In the context of signing day the media ranked GT's recruiting class as below average relative to other ACC programs. His comment is a rebuttal to those arguments, so it makes sense that non-conference schedules would be ignored in a comparison of ACC performance.

To be clear I'm not an apologist for 7 win seasons. There's room for improvement in GT's on the field performance that boils down to W's and L's, and I'm sure CPJ agrees with that.

 

[Squints]

Do I care who the other teams played? No. I don't. And last time I checked, ESPN and the BCS didn't say "Well you should be in the top 25 because you kicked *** in your league. Despite having a .500 overall record."

You don't because your opinions are based on, no offense, a very shallow analysis. Wins and losses are totally fine to look at but why are you so against looking further into it? Not every win is equal and neither is every loss. It's the same thing when you said the Tebow led Denver offense was good simply because they won (I think that was you if not my bad).

Doesn't work that way.

Are you kidding me? Are you saying the quality of your opponents doesn't matter in how you're perceived?

My point: what's the final record? Because that's all I really care about as a football fan of GT football.

Basically what I'm trying to say this is an oversimplified view of how football works.

 

[daBuzz]

You don't because your opinions are based on, no offense, a very shallow analysis. Wins and losses are totally fine to look at but why are you so against looking further into it? Not every win is equal and neither is every loss. It's the same thing when you said the Tebow led Denver offense was good simply because they won (I think that was you if not my bad).

Are you kidding me? Are you saying the quality of your opponents doesn't matter in how you're perceived?

Basically what I'm trying to say this is an oversimplified view of how football works.

Well I guess you and I will just have to agree to disagree. But I'll finish the conversation with one final point.

When you think back to Bobby Dodd, or Bobby Ross, or George O'Leary....when people talk about them, whether it's your friends or the media or you...how many times do you say "well that SOB was always in the top 4 in the SEC or ACC"? Or do you just talk about how we had a 10 win season that year...or we won 11 that year?

In the end, I contend a coach is judged on his win/loss record. Period.