CPJ interview - Nov 11

Lee

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841
I really don't think it bothers you. You've downplayed several of our wins on these boards already. We always have to be "lucky" to win big games.

Since you seem so caught up on this I did some digging on your post history.

You had this to say about our opponent in our first win:

USF is NOT as bad as some think. They're worse.

You didn’t post a single thing in the post game thread after we beat Miami. You may have been out of the country as I did see something about China. I would think someone supportive of the new staff would add something positive upon return. Your posts in the NC State post game thread were defending your boy Paul or talking about funding.

I’ll give you credit, you say enough stuff to make it seem like you support the new staff and want them to succeed, but you defend with all you have the previous regime.

As I said in the rest of the quote you cut off, beating the dwags is always great. Takethepoints asked for some facts. The fact is we beat the worst dwag team since the 2010 team (we lost to) in 2016. We had the best GT qb in over a decade playing as a senior and they had a freshman playing qb who threw a dumb pick with just under 4 mins on 2nd down.

Another fact. We should have beaten a bad dwag team in 2009 with arguably the most talented GT team Paul coached. We should’ve won in 2010 playing a 5-6 dwag team as well as 2013 playing against Hudson Mason and a 7-4 dwag team. Had Paul won any of those games we should’ve won, the program would be in much better shape. Nothing like beating the leg humpers to generate money. Imagine beating the dwags 3 in a row to start your coaching career at GT. There would’ve been more momentum than we’ve had in a long time. Instead he won the one he shouldn’t have and lost the two he shouldn’t have in that stretch.

So you can continue to get your feelings hurt about anything that doesn’t pass on adoring praise to Paul if you like. I’ll continue to enjoy any win we have regardless if who the coach is. I’ll also be honest with myself in the process.

It goes both ways. I think if we play the Citadel 10 times with this years team, we win 9. We happened to lose and we were the better team. I think if we played Miami 10 times with this year’s team, we win maybe 3/4. They were the better team IMO. Last year I think we would win 7/8 out of 10 against USF (we were the better team) and lose 6/8 out of 10 against UVA (they were the better team IMO).
 

Augusta_Jacket

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Since you seem so caught up on this I did some digging on your post history.

You had this to say about our opponent in our first win:



You didn’t post a single thing in the post game thread after we beat Miami. You may have been out of the country as I did see something about China. I would think someone supportive of the new staff would add something positive upon return. Your posts in the NC State post game thread were defending your boy Paul or talking about funding.

I’ll give you credit, you say enough stuff to make it seem like you support the new staff and want them to succeed, but you defend with all you have the previous regime.

As I said in the rest of the quote you cut off, beating the dwags is always great. Takethepoints asked for some facts. The fact is we beat the worst dwag team since the 2010 team (we lost to) in 2016. We had the best GT qb in over a decade playing as a senior and they had a freshman playing qb who threw a dumb pick with just under 4 mins on 2nd down.

Another fact. We should have beaten a bad dwag team in 2009 with arguably the most talented GT team Paul coached. We should’ve won in 2010 playing a 5-6 dwag team as well as 2013 playing against Hudson Mason and a 7-4 dwag team. Had Paul won any of those games we should’ve won, the program would be in much better shape. Nothing like beating the leg humpers to generate money. Imagine beating the dwags 3 in a row to start your coaching career at GT. There would’ve been more momentum than we’ve had in a long time. Instead he won the one he shouldn’t have and lost the two he shouldn’t have in that stretch.

So you can continue to get your feelings hurt about anything that doesn’t pass on adoring praise to Paul if you like. I’ll continue to enjoy any win we have regardless if who the coach is. I’ll also be honest with myself in the process.

It goes both ways. I think if we play the Citadel 10 times with this years team, we win 9. We happened to lose and we were the better team. I think if we played Miami 10 times with this year’s team, we win maybe 3/4. They were the better team IMO. Last year I think we would win 7/8 out of 10 against USF (we were the better team) and lose 6/8 out of 10 against UVA (they were the better team IMO).

To reply to your points:

We were discussing USF at that point and some were painting them as a good team. That was a fallacy. I credited the team with making the stops to win that game, but we should have won that game. I don't dismiss wins. You do, as you did in this very post talking about the 2016 uga game...

As for the Miami win, there is a very good reason I didn't comment afterwards: I was in China at the time and wasn't as active on these boards for those few weeks.

The NCSU game was a Thursday night game and after staying the duration and driving back to Augusta, I checked into a conversation 10 pages deep on that game. I didn't feel the need to rehash the same thoughts several others had posted there.

I'm on record on these boards criticizing CPJ myself, but I a not on record for chalking up our wins to luck. We weren't lucky to beat USF, but we did beat a really bad team.

As far as your "should haves" against uga, the 2009 game is the only one I recall where we were favored to win. That game was a major disappointment, and even I criticized CPJ at the time for his "bigger fish to fry" spiel...

Also, your use the phrase "should have" when talking about beating uga does not make those statements facts. It is your OPINION that we should have beat uga those years. Many of us share those opinions, especially 2009 and 2013, but they are opinions nonetheless. It is also your OPINION that beating them those years would have led to the financial input that might have been a "program changer." I do not share that opinion because I have not seen any indication that our donors are interested in funding GT at a competitive level even after our successful seasons. (As a side note, I have a friend who works for the GTAA and he told me once that after successful seasons it's harder for them to get donations in because the fans and donors see success at current levels of funding and don't realize how far below the norm we are in spending)

As for your final paragraph, I'd go even further and say we'd win 98/100 against this years Citadel team with this years GT team. We shouldn't have lost that game and I chalk a lot of it up to new coach/new scheme and the classic tendency to overlook an FCS opponent. I don't think we'd win 3/4 against this years Miami squad, I think we'd beat them 8/10. Yes they have more talent than us but we plain out coached them this year. That was a pretty good win for us. I would agree with last years probable outcomes against UVA and USF. I'd also add that we have been particularly snakebitten in close games against Pitt recently where we were the better team. Those games happen.

As for this staff, I have given them my full support. I buy tickets and commit to driving to and from Augusta on game days. I donate to the GTAA. I do this and I am not even an alumnus of the Institute. I'm just a sidewalk fan who cares. I am one of the few diehard option fans that has been calling for CGC to be given time to get his program installed. Heck, I haven't even called once for CDP to be fired, nor I have I stooped to using the derogatory "nickname" he's been dubbed with by many users here. I've even stated why I think we HAD to move past the 3O and when everyone was calling for minimum 6 wins this year or bust I was doing my best to pump the brakes. It's no secret I am not a fan of CGC's style, and I have said as much, but that doesn't matter as long as he builds a winning program here at GT in the next few years. You see, it's actually possible to be a fan of CPJ and the option and be a fan of the team under CGC as well. I didn't initially like the CPJ hire, but he grew on me. I am hoping CGC does the same, and I am going to give him the chance. What I won't do is talk bad about our wins, period.
 

Skeptic

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I had to cut off that last sentence. They did teach you about run-on sentences in high school, didn't they?

But, yes, I'd love to be ranked in the top 10 in something. Oh, wait. Harvin had 80 punts this year! That leads the nation! The new era of Tech football has arrived!
Monumental, no doubt.
 

Skeptic

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....
It goes both ways. I think if we play the Citadel 10 times with this years team, we win 9. We happened to lose and we were the better team. I think if we played Miami 10 times with this year’s team, we win maybe 3/4. They were the better team IMO. Last year I think we would win 7/8 out of 10 against USF (we were the better team) and lose 6/8 out of 10 against UVA (they were the better team IMO).
One can rationalize losses to his heart's content, but we lost all those games. There are no do-overs.
 

Lee

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Messages
841
To reply to your points:

We were discussing USF at that point and some were painting them as a good team. That was a fallacy. I credited the team with making the stops to win that game, but we should have won that game. I don't dismiss wins. You do, as you did in this very post talking about the 2016 uga game...

As for the Miami win, there is a very good reason I didn't comment afterwards: I was in China at the time and wasn't as active on these boards for those few weeks.

The NCSU game was a Thursday night game and after staying the duration and driving back to Augusta, I checked into a conversation 10 pages deep on that game. I didn't feel the need to rehash the same thoughts several others had posted there.

I'm on record on these boards criticizing CPJ myself, but I a not on record for chalking up our wins to luck. We weren't lucky to beat USF, but we did beat a really bad team.

As far as your "should haves" against uga, the 2009 game is the only one I recall where we were favored to win. That game was a major disappointment, and even I criticized CPJ at the time for his "bigger fish to fry" spiel...

Also, your use the phrase "should have" when talking about beating uga does not make those statements facts. It is your OPINION that we should have beat uga those years. Many of us share those opinions, especially 2009 and 2013, but they are opinions nonetheless. It is also your OPINION that beating them those years would have led to the financial input that might have been a "program changer." I do not share that opinion because I have not seen any indication that our donors are interested in funding GT at a competitive level even after our successful seasons. (As a side note, I have a friend who works for the GTAA and he told me once that after successful seasons it's harder for them to get donations in because the fans and donors see success at current levels of funding and don't realize how far below the norm we are in spending)

As for your final paragraph, I'd go even further and say we'd win 98/100 against this years Citadel team with this years GT team. We shouldn't have lost that game and I chalk a lot of it up to new coach/new scheme and the classic tendency to overlook an FCS opponent. I don't think we'd win 3/4 against this years Miami squad, I think we'd beat them 8/10. Yes they have more talent than us but we plain out coached them this year. That was a pretty good win for us. I would agree with last years probable outcomes against UVA and USF. I'd also add that we have been particularly snakebitten in close games against Pitt recently where we were the better team. Those games happen.

As for this staff, I have given them my full support. I buy tickets and commit to driving to and from Augusta on game days. I donate to the GTAA. I do this and I am not even an alumnus of the Institute. I'm just a sidewalk fan who cares. I am one of the few diehard option fans that has been calling for CGC to be given time to get his program installed. Heck, I haven't even called once for CDP to be fired, nor I have I stooped to using the derogatory "nickname" he's been dubbed with by many users here. I've even stated why I think we HAD to move past the 3O and when everyone was calling for minimum 6 wins this year or bust I was doing my best to pump the brakes. It's no secret I am not a fan of CGC's style, and I have said as much, but that doesn't matter as long as he builds a winning program here at GT in the next few years. You see, it's actually possible to be a fan of CPJ and the option and be a fan of the team under CGC as well. I didn't initially like the CPJ hire, but he grew on me. I am hoping CGC does the same, and I am going to give him the chance. What I won't do is talk bad about our wins, period.

Good points. I don’t see any purpose of continuing this further. I think we agree on way more things than we disagree on. I was actually really excited about both hires, but had way more fun in Paul’s first year.

Here’s to finishing strong this recruiting class and marked improvement next year! Have a great day
 

takethepoints

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I’m seeing very straight. You’re the one struggling with triple option vision.

Want to talk facts?

1. Paul was 24-25 in the last 4 years
2. Paul was 10-12 against the coastal the last 4 years. Teams we play every year (throw in Clemson and dwags and this gets worse).
3. Paul had two losing seasons in the past 4 years (in his years 8-11).
4. Collins will have a better recruiting class in year 1 than Paul had his whole time at GT.
5. You don’t really want facts, you just want to throw accusations that make you sound smart/tough while ignoring the fact that we have been spiraling downwards as a program while racking up big rushing yards against teams that haven’t faced us or FCS teams that make people like you feel good because we were ranked in the top 10 in something.
Oh, well, since you insist.

As I said before about a post citing this particular version of facts, cherry-picking statistics can be so - oh, I don't know - satisfying. And what you have done here is avoid 2014 - and a 5 year time frame - like the plague. Let's include 2014 and see what happens, shall we?

• In the last 5 years, Paul was 35 - 28.
• In the last 5 years, Paul was 14 - 14 against the Coastal (and throw in Clemson and Ugag and it's 17 - 20).
* In the last 5 years, Paul's teams had two losing seasons and were ranked in the top 10 once, Tech's first top 10 rankling since 1990.
• And the picture gets even better if you take out the injury sunami year of 2015. I expect that people will be doing that for 2019 too, though there is absolutely no comparison.

You see?

However, the facts that can't be papered over are that last year Tech averaged 33.6 points per game (29.5 against Coastal opponents), 408.8 yards total offense (396 against Coastal opponents), and scored 53 TDs. And had a winning season including defeating VT, UNC, UVA, and da U. Those, my friend, are the statistics that Geoff has to overcome. Once we get a couple of years in we'll be able to see if anything similar happens. Better D results would certainly help with wins; since that's Geoff's speciality we'll see about that as well.

Source: https://ramblinwreck.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/2018-Football-Season-Stats.pdf
 

Lee

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Messages
841
Oh, well, since you insist.

As I said before about a post citing this particular version of facts, cherry-picking statistics can be so - oh, I don't know - satisfying. And what you have done here is avoid 2014 - and a 5 year time frame - like the plague. Let's include 2014 and see what happens, shall we?

• In the last 5 years, Paul was 35 - 28.
• In the last 5 years, Paul was 14 - 14 against the Coastal (and throw in Clemson and Ugag and it's 17 - 20).
* In the last 5 years, Paul's teams had two losing seasons and were ranked in the top 10 once, Tech's first top 10 rankling since 1990.
• And the picture gets even better if you take out the injury sunami year of 2015. I expect that people will be doing that for 2019 too, though there is absolutely no comparison.

You see?

However, the facts that can't be papered over are that last year Tech averaged 33.6 points per game (29.5 against Coastal opponents), 408.8 yards total offense (396 against Coastal opponents), and scored 53 TDs. And had a winning season including defeating VT, UNC, UVA, and da U. Those, my friend, are the statistics that Geoff has to overcome. Once we get a couple of years in we'll be able to see if anything similar happens. Better D results would certainly help with wins; since that's Geoff's speciality we'll see about that as well.

Source: https://ramblinwreck.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/2018-Football-Season-Stats.pdf

It’s not cherry picking stats. 4 years is enough for a trend. Your stats alone show that we were only .500 against the coastal and even worse when adding in Clemson and the dwags. At the end if Paul’s tenure, we beat up on teams that hadn’t seen us in a long time or ever (see Syracuse and L’ville) and inferior teams. The teams we faced on a consistent basis seemed to have figured some things out unless they were young or had a new coaching staff.

Some additional facts:

-From 2009 through 2013 we were 18-13 against the coastal. Since then, we are 14-14. See downward trend. Why can you take out 2015 but get mad when I don’t include 2014? Double standard much?
-His winning percentage (including FCS games) after 2009 (mostly his players at this point) was 54.7%.
-He coached two preseason top 20 teams to losing seasons. Ironically after his two best years.
-Most important fact of all, He RETIRED!

Listen, I was a huge fan we we hired Paul. I’ve said it before, I bet my Bama buddy that we would get back to a National Championship before they would I was so excited about the hire and happy to be done with Gailey. I thought the uniqueness of his offense with the talent we had (compared to Navy or GSU) would allow us to compete with the big boys. And we did that at times. I got frustrated with him when it started to seem like his offense was more important than winning and the conplete inability to pass post JT. I think his ego/pride got in the way of continued success.

My personal opinion is that he would still be here and we would’ve had more success if he would’ve opened up the offense to seem more attractive to higher profile kids, he would’ve taken recruiting more seriously (find a young energetic guy to make GT seem more exciting), and taken the reigns off his defensive coordinators. On the last point, he publicly said he wanted to be more aggressive but we never did. I think that was due to him having too much control over what the D did (my opinion).

In the end, it was obvious to anyone paying attention that the program was headed in the wrong direction. 2016 and 2014 especially were awesome seasons, but by the end of 2018 they seemed so far away from where we were that we had to make a change. I do respect the hell out of the man for leaving how he did.

I didn’t like Paul at the end of his run (pretty obvious I’m guessing), but am still thankful for the things he did for GT and the several great years/wins. I don’t enjoy pointing out his shortcomings, but feel I need to when people like yourself are trying to compare what Collins is trying to do in year 1 with what Paul did in his 11th year and what you THINK he would’ve done coaching this team.

The fact is, Paul walked into a much better situation that Collins did. Should we have won more games this year? Yes. Citadel for sure. That was an embarrassment. Maybe Temple, Pitt, or UVA. At best we would’ve been sitting at 7-5 with Paul still here (IMO). Possibly 5-7.

If Graham didn’t have eligibility concerns in the spring and wasn’t wearing a boot for the Citadel game, I bet we would’ve won 2 more games this year even with the injuries and attrition we had. Collins had to try to maximize our chances of winning while still transitioning to the offense of the future. I personally think he handled the QB situation poorly at the beginning of the year, but this goes back to my point about Graham. Had he been healthy and no eligibility concerns, he would’ve been the guy from the start of the season and we would’ve looked much better IMO.
 

RyanS12

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It’s not cherry picking stats. 4 years is enough for a trend. Your stats alone show that we were only .500 against the coastal and even worse when adding in Clemson and the dwags. At the end if Paul’s tenure, we beat up on teams that hadn’t seen us in a long time or ever (see Syracuse and L’ville) and inferior teams. The teams we faced on a consistent basis seemed to have figured some things out unless they were young or had a new coaching staff.

Some additional facts:

-From 2009 through 2013 we were 18-13 against the coastal. Since then, we are 14-14. See downward trend. Why can you take out 2015 but get mad when I don’t include 2014? Double standard much?
-His winning percentage (including FCS games) after 2009 (mostly his players at this point) was 54.7%.
-He coached two preseason top 20 teams to losing seasons. Ironically after his two best years.
-Most important fact of all, He RETIRED!

Listen, I was a huge fan we we hired Paul. I’ve said it before, I bet my Bama buddy that we would get back to a National Championship before they would I was so excited about the hire and happy to be done with Gailey. I thought the uniqueness of his offense with the talent we had (compared to Navy or GSU) would allow us to compete with the big boys. And we did that at times. I got frustrated with him when it started to seem like his offense was more important than winning and the conplete inability to pass post JT. I think his ego/pride got in the way of continued success.

My personal opinion is that he would still be here and we would’ve had more success if he would’ve opened up the offense to seem more attractive to higher profile kids, he would’ve taken recruiting more seriously (find a young energetic guy to make GT seem more exciting), and taken the reigns off his defensive coordinators. On the last point, he publicly said he wanted to be more aggressive but we never did. I think that was due to him having too much control over what the D did (my opinion).

In the end, it was obvious to anyone paying attention that the program was headed in the wrong direction. 2016 and 2014 especially were awesome seasons, but by the end of 2018 they seemed so far away from where we were that we had to make a change. I do respect the hell out of the man for leaving how he did.

I didn’t like Paul at the end of his run (pretty obvious I’m guessing), but am still thankful for the things he did for GT and the several great years/wins. I don’t enjoy pointing out his shortcomings, but feel I need to when people like yourself are trying to compare what Collins is trying to do in year 1 with what Paul did in his 11th year and what you THINK he would’ve done coaching this team.

The fact is, Paul walked into a much better situation that Collins did. Should we have won more games this year? Yes. Citadel for sure. That was an embarrassment. Maybe Temple, Pitt, or UVA. At best we would’ve been sitting at 7-5 with Paul still here (IMO). Possibly 5-7.

If Graham didn’t have eligibility concerns in the spring and wasn’t wearing a boot for the Citadel game, I bet we would’ve won 2 more games this year even with the injuries and attrition we had. Collins had to try to maximize our chances of winning while still transitioning to the offense of the future. I personally think he handled the QB situation poorly at the beginning of the year, but this goes back to my point about Graham. Had he been healthy and no eligibility concerns, he would’ve been the guy from the start of the season and we would’ve looked much better IMO.
I liked this post and I’m. Commenting on it so I can say I like it again!
 

takethepoints

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It’s not cherry picking stats. 4 years is enough for a trend. Your stats alone show that we were only .500 against the coastal and even worse when adding in Clemson and the dwags. At the end if Paul’s tenure, we beat up on teams that hadn’t seen us in a long time or ever (see Syracuse and L’ville) and inferior teams. The teams we faced on a consistent basis seemed to have figured some things out unless they were young or had a new coaching staff.

Some additional facts:

-From 2009 through 2013 we were 18-13 against the coastal. Since then, we are 14-14. See downward trend. Why can you take out 2015 but get mad when I don’t include 2014? Double standard much?
-His winning percentage (including FCS games) after 2009 (mostly his players at this point) was 54.7%.
-He coached two preseason top 20 teams to losing seasons. Ironically after his two best years.
-Most important fact of all, He RETIRED!

Listen, I was a huge fan we we hired Paul. I’ve said it before, I bet my Bama buddy that we would get back to a National Championship before they would I was so excited about the hire and happy to be done with Gailey. I thought the uniqueness of his offense with the talent we had (compared to Navy or GSU) would allow us to compete with the big boys. And we did that at times. I got frustrated with him when it started to seem like his offense was more important than winning and the conplete inability to pass post JT. I think his ego/pride got in the way of continued success.

My personal opinion is that he would still be here and we would’ve had more success if he would’ve opened up the offense to seem more attractive to higher profile kids, he would’ve taken recruiting more seriously (find a young energetic guy to make GT seem more exciting), and taken the reigns off his defensive coordinators. On the last point, he publicly said he wanted to be more aggressive but we never did. I think that was due to him having too much control over what the D did (my opinion).

In the end, it was obvious to anyone paying attention that the program was headed in the wrong direction. 2016 and 2014 especially were awesome seasons, but by the end of 2018 they seemed so far away from where we were that we had to make a change. I do respect the hell out of the man for leaving how he did.

I didn’t like Paul at the end of his run (pretty obvious I’m guessing), but am still thankful for the things he did for GT and the several great years/wins. I don’t enjoy pointing out his shortcomings, but feel I need to when people like yourself are trying to compare what Collins is trying to do in year 1 with what Paul did in his 11th year and what you THINK he would’ve done coaching this team.

The fact is, Paul walked into a much better situation that Collins did. Should we have won more games this year? Yes. Citadel for sure. That was an embarrassment. Maybe Temple, Pitt, or UVA. At best we would’ve been sitting at 7-5 with Paul still here (IMO). Possibly 5-7.

If Graham didn’t have eligibility concerns in the spring and wasn’t wearing a boot for the Citadel game, I bet we would’ve won 2 more games this year even with the injuries and attrition we had. Collins had to try to maximize our chances of winning while still transitioning to the offense of the future. I personally think he handled the QB situation poorly at the beginning of the year, but this goes back to my point about Graham. Had he been healthy and no eligibility concerns, he would’ve been the guy from the start of the season and we would’ve looked much better IMO.
I didn't take out 2015. I don't so stuff like that with stats. Including it does tilt the picture, however. The number of injuries was astounding and had pretty much nothing to do with anything Paul was up to. And, btw, UVA, VT, and da U were all bowl teams last year.

As I've often said before and Boomer seconded, Paul did recruit the players to make the team work. Problem = in his last few years some - Ratliff, Jordan, Gray, Griffin and Stickler (the OTs) - were sidelined for good and one - Mills - who would have made a tremendous difference got fired over some really outdated Tech rules. We also lost a few others to "attrition", but that wasn't anywhere near as big a difficulty. Bottom line = We would still have Paul on the sidelines if Mills had stayed; he was the absolute key to the spread option.

Responding to the rest of the post would be dueling perspectives (I think Paul would have won 8 at least with this outfit, for instance, as would Moncken or even Bohannon), so I'll let that slide. I do hope Geoff shows us more then he did this year on the sidelines and that the new kids on the staff learned something. We'll see, but probably not until 2021. The SEASON OF DOOM approaches.
 
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Skeptic

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[QUOTE="takethepoints, post: 667016, member: 265" (I think Paul would have won 8 at least with this outfit, for instance, as would Moncken or even Bohannon), so I'll let that slide. I do hope Geoff shows us more then he did this year on the sidelines and that the new kids on the staff learned something. We'll see, but probably not until 2021. The SEASON OF DOOM approaches.[/QUOTE]
I don't know he would have won eight, but I'm fairly confident he would have broken even and added a bowl game. But -- and maybe it is just a conservative view of the sideline, I just don't want to look up at the TV and see our head ball coach doing pushups (not very good ones, either) when his team is trying to play. If that is "the culture" then dump the culture and get back to competing.
 

LongforDodd

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Let's get real. When Paul's baby was rolling, Death Marches were a real thing. As time wore on, they became fewer and farther between until there were no more.

And here we are!
 

Vespidae

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More money hires more recruiting staff. If you want to see whos playing for championships, look at who is spending money. It correlates. Winning national championships didn't help us. Beating uga doesn't help us. Winning overall is a part of the process, but you have to have the staff to make it work, and the facilities to attract top tier talent, no matter who the coach is.

Money provides resources, I will grant you that. But Tennessee has Top Five facilities, Top Five fanbase, Number One in Merchandising Sales and was still a dumpster fire two years ago. Hire a bad coaching staff and adopt a hands off policy while spending money is a not a good recipe for success.

I will bet MBob didn't even know where CPJ's office was.
 

Augusta_Jacket

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Money provides resources, I will grant you that. But Tennessee has Top Five facilities, Top Five fanbase, Number One in Merchandising Sales and was still a dumpster fire two years ago. Hire a bad coaching staff and adopt a hands off policy while spending money is a not a good recipe for success.

I will bet MBob didn't even know where CPJ's office was.

No one said spending money is a cure all, but lack of spending is almost always a show stopper. All of your top tier playoff caliber teams lead the way in spending. We can't keep pace with that level of $$$, so we will have to combine smart spending with quality coaching to win, but continuing to trail everyone except Wake in football spending in the ACC will doom us for generations.
 

Vespidae

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All of your top tier playoff caliber teams lead the way in spending.

I disagree with this from two perspectives. First … all of the top tier caliber teams lead the way in RAISING MONEY first … and Tech has not shown that it is really interested in that. Tech's entire AA budget is roughly $70M and it takes $100M to run a competitive athletic program. I don't really see Tech trying to close that gap by taking actions to do so.

But, as a counterpoint, if you read the Talent Code … all the world class players in almost any sport toil away in very underrated facilities because they work on fundamentals to a level no one else does. Bear Bryant quipped that his Kentucky teams ran 5 plays on their way to the SEC Championship.

Money helps. But so does having a plan.
 

Augusta_Jacket

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I disagree with this from two perspectives. First … all of the top tier caliber teams lead the way in RAISING MONEY first … and Tech has not shown that it is really interested in that. Tech's entire AA budget is roughly $70M and it takes $100M to run a competitive athletic program. I don't really see Tech trying to close that gap by taking actions to do so.

But, as a counterpoint, if you read the Talent Code … all the world class players in almost any sport toil away in very underrated facilities because they work on fundamentals to a level no one else does. Bear Bryant quipped that his Kentucky teams ran 5 plays on their way to the SEC Championship.

Money helps. But so does having a plan.

Every team that has made the playoffs since it's inception is in the top 15 in spending (exception of Oregon who live on the largesse of Phil Knight). Link below. That's not coincidence. No one is saying that indiscriminate spending cures all ills, but there is a strong correlation between spending and winning. More money buys better coaching, more attractive facilities, better recruiting staff, etc.

As to raising money, I have indicated that that is a necessary precursor to fixing the state of our program.

https://www.syracuse.com/orangefoot...ollege_football_where_does_syracuse_rank.html
 

Skeptic

Helluva Engineer
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6,372
No one said spending money is a cure all, but lack of spending is almost always a show stopper. All of your top tier playoff caliber teams lead the way in spending. We can't keep pace with that level of $$$, so we will have to combine smart spending with quality coaching to win, but continuing to trail everyone except Wake in football spending in the ACC will doom us for generations.
Spending is almost always a show stopper. I remember when we had newspapers -- anybody remember them? -- and the owners literally cut the news space in half to save money on newsprint. The editors almost without exception played team ball and said the paper was better than ever because, gee, we have to edit better.

Get serious. They wrecked newspapers because they gave up on news. So spend away.
 

Vespidae

Helluva Engineer
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Auburn, AL
Every team that has made the playoffs since it's inception is in the top 15 in spending (exception of Oregon who live on the largesse of Phil Knight). Link below. That's not coincidence. No one is saying that indiscriminate spending cures all ills, but there is a strong correlation between spending and winning. More money buys better coaching, more attractive facilities, better recruiting staff, etc.

As to raising money, I have indicated that that is a necessary precursor to fixing the state of our program.

https://www.syracuse.com/orangefoot...ollege_football_where_does_syracuse_rank.html

Correlation is not causation. I'm surprised that I have to say that to a Georgia Tech grad.
 

gthxxxx

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
150
Correlation is not causation. I'm surprised that I have to say that to a Georgia Tech grad.
Neither is there causation without correlation. Do you think "More money buys better coaching, more attractive facilities, better recruiting staff, etc" is false or not a contributing cause to a team making playoffs?
 

Vespidae

Helluva Engineer
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Auburn, AL
Neither is there causation without correlation. Do you think "More money buys better coaching, more attractive facilities, better recruiting staff, etc" is false or not a contributing cause to a team making playoffs?

The GTAA GOT more money from loans, $200M worth, and did a make a dime's bit of difference ON THE FIELD? No. Tennessee is a cash machine. And still ended up a dumpster fire with recruits NOT recruited by Alabama or UGA, their primary competitors.

Just because you can spend more doesn't translate into greater success.
 
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