Coronavirus Thread

[BleedGoldNWhite21]

What are the jobs?

One works at a hair salon. One works at a restaurant.

 

[RamblinRed]

Yep. There will be increased cases. But, if we don't overrun the hospitals, and most cases are either asymptomatic, mild, or recovered from without hospitalization, then we're OK.

I also don't get some people saying things like, "I don't see how a massage therapist, etc. can safely do business". How did they safely operate before? When you went to get a massage, haircut, etc. in the past, did you know the health status of every person in the place? No, you didn't. Were there tons of germs in there then? Yes, there was. So, you were taking a risk then, and you will be now. I just don't see that the risk-reward decision has gotten that much worse for the vast majority of people (with what we know now).

The difference is before February you were unlikely to contract a disease that could potentially kill you and certainly could give you the worst illness you've ever had in your life.
This constant talk of it not being that bad, only the old and sick die, is not particularly true. 55% of hospitalizations are people under 65. with 45% of them being under 55 (15% are under 30).
It's not just old and high risk people getting seriously ill.

This current re-opening plan reeks of ready, shoot, aim management plan. Not a well thought out plan to maximize our ability to get as much a return to normal as possible.
The opening of bowling alleys and movie theaters make absolutely 0 sense.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

One works at a hair salon. One works at a restaurant.

The reason I ask is that under OSHA, an employee actually can refuse a work assignment if they think it puts them at risk of death or serious physical harm. COVID-19 to a person over 60 with pre-existing conditions fits that to a T. So the question will become, what precautions is that hair salon and restaurant taking? If they aren't taking any precautions, then that employee under the law can opt out and file for unemployment. If they are taking precautions and the employee still doesn't want to work there, then my gut tells me this employee really wouldn't want to work anywhere in the public right now, which would be understandable based on how you described them. You can't just say you're not going to ever work again but pay me anyway. I'd recommend they take unemployment as long as this current law allows - I imagine a front line employee in those industries isn't making the $50k/year that the beefed up unemployment pays anyway. Hopefully medicines and vaccines will make the world safer for them sooner rather than later.

 

[MountainBuzzMan]

My wife is a dental hygienist. Which has the highest risks of all jobs in the country. We are thinking she may never go back to work. The ADA is thinking about making them wear something akin to a hazmat suit as a new PPE standard.

 

[BleedGoldNWhite21]

The reason I ask is that under OSHA, an employee actually can refuse a work assignment if they think it puts them at risk of death or serious physical harm. COVID-19 to a person over 60 with pre-existing conditions fits that to a T. So the question will become, what precautions is that hair salon and restaurant taking? If they aren't taking any precautions, then that employee under the law can opt out and file for unemployment. If they are taking precautions and the employee still doesn't want to work there, then my gut tells me this employee really wouldn't want to work anywhere in the public right now, which would be understandable based on how you described them. You can't just say you're not going to ever work again but pay me anyway. I'd recommend they take unemployment as long as this current one law allows - I imagine a front line employee in those industries isn't making the $50k/year that the beefed up unemployment makes anyway. Hopefully medicines and vaccines will make the world safer for them sooner rather than later.

Neither one of them is happy to be in unemployment. It is what it is. And yes, there are supposed to be things to protect them, but as you said, what if they rule that their job is doing enough to make it safe? I use the example used in The Last Dance on Sunday, if someone gave you a bottle of 10 pills and 9 will heal you, but one will kill you, do you take one? I don’t believe people should be in the position where, if the government feels they are safe, they are forced to do something that, based on their health, health officials wouldn’t recommend.

 

[RonJohn]

I understand that which is why I think the real issue is Kemp‘s ruling that won’t let individual counties or cities make stricter rulings for their areas than the state’s overall ruling. There are plenty of counties that have been virtually not hit and, with strict guidelines, I think it’s reasonable to slowly open some places up. However, if the counties with the highest numbers want to stay on lock down, they should. His ruling yesterday does not allow that. That is the real issue. This wouldn’t be as criticized if he didn’t do that. He could have easily lifted the state of emergency for the whole state and explained that a lot of the state has barely been hit so he’s putting the ball in local officials court to decide what’s best for their county/city.

I thought he did say that he might keep regulations more strict in some localized areas, like around Albany.

 

[JacketOff]

I don't know how anyone can predict when the economy would be able to "reopen", but if the economy was the only concern, I'd wager having zero additional regulation would have "reopened" the economy the fastest. High testing and quarantines don't work given the realities of U.S. structure, the virus capacity to spread, and the accuracy/speed of detection.
[Edit: Can anybody actually say with confidence when specifically the end of the Covid will be? It "probably" won't go away by itself. A vaccine will "probably" not get here until next year. The virus "might" not mutate into a strain that escapes the vaccine's scope.]

What are these so called realities that affect the U.S. so much stronger than any other country in the world? That a large percentage of the population is selfish? Ignorant? Unwilling to make sacrifice? Unwilling to listen/believe in science? Australia seems fine. South Korea was able to control and stop the spread much more efficiently than we have. I’d say it doesn’t help when your leader and media are at war with one another and actively dividing the country. And yes, keeping the economy open would’ve have propped it up for a little longer, but had nothing been done until now, the results would be catastrophic. Death tolls in 6 figures, even more out of work, mass panic.

 

[lauraee]

FWIW, Cuomo is on now discussing a regional approach to reopening/reimagining New York.

They're also flashing stats that are trending in the right direction.

Unemployment IT systems has collapsed under volume, but NY has 1,000 people taking phone calls and emails to make progress. Benefits are retroactive.

Despite the **** show here in NYC, where I think I'm 6 more weeks of work from home, I have faith in the state leadership.

De Blasio is a clown, but Cuomo has his act together.

Nothing I've seen so far gives me any faith in Georgia's state leadership.

 

[takethepoints]

If the capacity, distancing, and mask requirements are effective at limiting spread of infections, how many businesses are too many?

Too many to check and see if the requirements are actually being put into force, of course. We could always depend on strict compliance across the board by all the businesses in question, but I sure wouldn't bet my health on that. Here's the scenario that I'm afraid of and, imho, that is almost certain to take place. Owner decides to pack 'em in and lets word of mouth attract customers who want to show they are "mavericks" or something. He makes profits! Some neighboring businesses decide to do the same. They make profits!

And the virus re-ignites. Because it doesn't take much to do it with a disease so contagious. Even if (say) 85% of businesses conform responsibly, the virus re-ignites. There really is only one way to do this safely and that is to have a robust testing regime ready to go from the first. Here's the picture for Georgia from the Johns Hopkins site:

I don't care what Brian Kemp says, we aren't ready to meet even the barest testing and contact tracing regime necessary to handle this.

Now we could depend on people's good sense and that might work. But, personally, I've never thought that trusting my fellow man to behave responsibly was any more of a winning proposition then trusting businesses to forego profits. But … maybe we are as smart as the Chinese!

 

[MountainBuzzMan]

Nothing I've seen so far gives me any faith in Georgia's state leadership.

I agree, Our choices this past election was one idiot or another. I do like the Atlanta mayor a lot. I wish she would run for governor.

 

[BleedGoldNWhite21]

I thought he did say that he might keep regulations more strict in some localized areas, like around Albany.

He did, but it’s up to him. Albany can no longer make that decision themselves.

 

[RamblinRed]

Here is a good article explaining the challenges of ramping up COVID19 testing. Basically we are going too fast and too slow at the same time.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/feature...tests-there-are-also-too-many-covid-19-tests/

Also, another study and HCQ. Largest one yet. Done at VA hospitals in the US. No positive effects found either in reducing the ventilators needed or preventing death.
This is the actual study, it still has to be peer reviewed - been submitted to the New England Journal of Medicine
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.16.20065920v1.full.pdf

 

[gthxxxx]

What are these so called realities that affect the U.S. so much stronger than any other country in the world? That a large percentage of the population is selfish? Ignorant? Unwilling to make sacrifice? Unwilling to listen/believe in science?

Realities of U.S. is that its citizens are not self-sufficient to survive being separated by any potential carriers by the vicinity and duration that the virus can subsist, and that the government cannot force such.

Australia seems fine. South Korea was able to control and stop the spread much more efficiently than we have. I’d say it doesn’t help when your leader and media are at war with one another and actively dividing the country. And yes, keeping the economy open would’ve have propped it up for a little longer, but had nothing been done until now, the results would be catastrophic. Death tolls in 6 figures, even more out of work, mass panic.

You're presenting a lot of hypotheticals as vague certainties. What makes Australia fine? Is Covid contained/gone from South Korea? Had nothing [no additional government interference] been done until now, you guarantee there would be death tolls in 6 figures, even more out of work, mass panic, and that there won't be such in the present/future otherwise? Which, btw, I'm not sure how all these added stuff go back to the original comment about solely the economy.
[Edit: Btw, since you seem to be so sure about things, why don't you tell us when Covid will go away or be contained (i.e. vaccinated)? a few months? half a year? a year? 2 years? longer?]

 

[BleedGoldNWhite21]

What are these so called realities that affect the U.S. so much stronger than any other country in the world? That a large percentage of the population is selfish? Ignorant? Unwilling to make sacrifice? Unwilling to listen/believe in science? Australia seems fine. South Korea was able to control and stop the spread much more efficiently than we have. I’d say it doesn’t help when your leader and media are at war with one another and actively dividing the country. And yes, keeping the economy open would’ve have propped it up for a little longer, but had nothing been done until now, the results would be catastrophic. Death tolls in 6 figures, even more out of work, mass panic.

Based on early predictions and our slow start, I actually think the US has ended up handling it better than anticipated(aside from mass testing). The social distancing is working. If we quit too early, we’re gonna undo every right we accomplished.

Kemp’s decision feels like too many Tech football games: After a slow first quarter, we surprisingly take control of the game, only to completely squander it when it matters most.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Realities of U.S. is that its citizens are not self-sufficient to survive being separated by any potential carriers by the vicinity and duration that the virus can subsist, and that the government cannot force such.

You're presenting a lot of hypotheticals as vague certainties. What makes Australia fine? Is Covid contained/gone from South Korea? Had nothing [no additional government interference] been done until now, you guarantee there would be death tolls in 6 figures, even more out of work, mass panic, and that there won't be such in the present/future otherwise? Which, btw, I'm not sure how all these added stuff go back to the original comment about solely the economy.
[Edit: Btw, since you seem to be so sure about things, why don't you tell us when Covid will go away or be contained (i.e. vaccinated)? a few months? half a year? a year? 2 years? longer?]

Well South Korea runs a virtual police state around this, unlike really any other country in the world.

Australia benefits from being in the middle of summer when the virus hit. I don't know what the exact percentage is, but the vast vast vast majority of COVID-19 cases are in the northern hemisphere.

 

[RamblinRed]

Based on early predictions and our slow start, I actually think the US has ended up handling it better than anticipated(aside from mass testing). The social distancing is working. If we quit too early, we’re gonna undo every right we accomplished.

Kemp’s decision feels like too many Tech football games: After a slow first quarter, we surprisingly take control of the game, only to completely squander it when it matters most.

This analogy hurts because it feels so true.

I still can't understand the movie theaters for the life of me. There are no movies scheduled to open now until July - and that will only happen if the big entertainment centers (NYC/LA) allow theaters to be open by then.
Most movie chains have already said they won't be opening in GA next week.

 

[RonJohn]

Now we could depend on people's good sense and that might work. But, personally, I've never thought that trusting my fellow man to behave responsibly was any more of a winning proposition then trusting businesses to forego profits. But … maybe we are as smart as the Chinese!

And the news coverage is doing everything to cause your mistrust in the situation to happen. What are the limitations on the business re-openings? I have not seen one news story or one news site about them. I bet not many people who own such businesses actually know what they are. How are they going to abide by them if they don't know what they are? If clients of those businesses don't know what the limitations are, how are they to be expected to abide by them?

Are the limitations good or bad? I don't know because I haven't seen them. I haven't gone out of my way to look, but: The governor's office should express very clearly what the expectations are. The media should publicize those expectations very clearly. Find out what the regulations actually are, and debate whether they are good enough or not. This constant "my side" against "your side" isn't helping public health and isn't helping the economy either.

 

[JacketOff]

And the news coverage is doing everything to cause your mistrust in the situation to happen. What are the limitations on the business re-openings? I have not seen one news story or one news site about them. I bet not many people who own such businesses actually know what they are. How are they going to abide by them if they don't know what they are? If clients of those businesses don't know what the limitations are, how are they to be expected to abide by them?

Are the limitations good or bad? I don't know because I haven't seen them. I haven't gone out of my way to look, but: The governor's office should express very clearly what the expectations are. The media should publicize those expectations very clearly. Find out what the regulations actually are, and debate whether they are good enough or not. This constant "my side" against "your side" isn't helping public health and isn't helping the economy either.

To be fair, the regulations were publicized. The biggest ones being social distancing, but the types of businesses they decided to open are essentially incapable of operating with social distancing. Barbershops, nail salons, massage parlors? Good luck getting a haircut or a massage from 6 feet away. Others include regular sanitation, and limits on the amount of people per 1,000 sq ft.

 

[takethepoints]

And the news coverage is doing everything to cause your mistrust in the situation to happen. What are the limitations on the business re-openings? I have not seen one news story or one news site about them. I bet not many people who own such businesses actually know what they are. How are they going to abide by them if they don't know what they are? If clients of those businesses don't know what the limitations are, how are they to be expected to abide by them?

Are the limitations good or bad? I don't know because I haven't seen them. I haven't gone out of my way to look, but: The governor's office should express very clearly what the expectations are. The media should publicize those expectations very clearly. Find out what the regulations actually are, and debate whether they are good enough or not. This constant "my side" against "your side" isn't helping public health and isn't helping the economy either.

One reply. If the governor hasn't made the "limitations on the business re-openings" clear by now, why do you think he ever will? Since when is it the responsibility of journalists to publicize government requirements? And why has this happened in the first place?

I hesitate to say this, but my guess is that the government of our state hasn't taken even the preliminary steps of deciding on what limitations to enforce or what kind of testing/contact regime we need. Not to mention ramping this up.

I hate to be so cynical about this. But, to be frank, I don't think the facts bear any other interpretation. This isn't a "my side" v. "your side" debate either. You've told us what the state "should" have done. They haven't. QED.

 

[takethepoints]

To be fair, the regulations were publicized. The biggest ones being social distancing, but the types of businesses they decided to open are essentially incapable of operating with social distancing. Barbershops, nail salons, massage parlors? Good luck getting a haircut or a massage from 6 feet away. Others include regular sanitation, and limits on the amount of people per 1,000 sq ft.

Eggsackley.