Coronavirus Thread

[TechPreacher]

Well you didn't mention his name either, but it was Benjamin Franklin. And I doubt he had a pandemic in mind. He was a reasonable man.

Now, come on, tell the truth. No one else has to know. It will just be our little secret. You had to look it up, didn't you?

 

[GT_EE78]

Flat? The 7 day average on 7/16 was about 813 (the daily reported for 7/18 was 813 and the 7 day line on 7/16 almost matches up with the bar for 7/18). The 7 day average on 7/25 was above 908 which is the bar for 9/25. A 13% increase doesn't match the definition of flat to me.

I was referring to daily "cases" regarding flat for 10 days.(that's from worldometers)
You're right that daily deaths aren't flat and the two day dip may just be weekend reportin oddity,
I mentioned cases as flat expecting that deaths will flatten before declining.not sure about lag time.
this one shows abt 10 days flat

 

[Deleted member 2897]

I find myself in agreement with most of your posts, but the use of a Nazi symbol on ANYTHING is offensive to me and, I believe, most Americans. Although perhaps legally that cannot be prevented, it should definitely be slammed by all.

Same here. But so what? Do we have freedom of speech or not? There is a reason why two-thirds of Americans don’t feel safe voicing their opinions these days (new survey out). Those 2 people weren’t supporting Nazis, they were trolling the fascists (in their opinion). I see people wearing all kinds of obnoxious offensive stuff. It’s the price of freedom. If people only wore shirts that said “I Love Puppies”, this wouldn’t be America.

 

[bobongo]

How were they prevented? Did the virus disappear so that it couldn't infect anyone ever again? No. It isn't going anywhere. Shutdowns are just kicking the can down the road and the people that did that study covered their butts by having the word delayed in there. That study really isn't any better than the models that were used to justify the shutdown in the first place. Way too many assumptions

It's an extrapolation, of course. How else could a study like this be conducted? But obviously, if you prevent spread of the virus you will prevent death. And if it's delayed, it may well be delayed until after a vaccination, in which case delay becomes prevention.

 

[ncjacket79]

The capitalist class is the first to be annihilated when the Marxists take over.

My point. They are doing extremely well though and aren’t going anywhere.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Here is what our flagship local hospital is seeing. Our cases plateaued over the last 3 weeks statewide and are trending down. Shockingly, hospitalizations and ventilator usage is also already trending down. Due to the lag time, I would have expected a slower turn there. A good sign...could be that a predominance of cases over the last month are in younger and younger people.

 

[ncjacket79]

Yes, I am fine with that. It's called life. The death rate for humans is 100%, so you had better be ready. No one is guaranteed today, much less tomorrow. So, while I'm still alive, I plan on living, and not just existing to avoid some virus that I have at least a 99% chance of surviving.

So here’s the deal. I don’t actually care about the choices you make and the consequences for you. I mean I do I suppose bit of you choose to do things that put you at risk that’s your choice. But I do care about your choices that put others at risk and society has a right and an obligation to control that behavior.

I don’t want to see further lockdowns but reasonable curbs on those things that have shown to be activities that spread the virus are fine with me. And if people are responsible about wearing masks, distancing,etc. we can be more open than not until we do get a vaccine and treatments continue to improve. I’m not looking for perfect.

 

[ncjacket79]

Here is what our flagship local hospital is seeing. Our cases plateaued over the last 3 weeks statewide and are trending down. Shockingly, hospitalizations and ventilator usage is also already trending down. Due to the lag time, I would have expected a slower turn there. A good sign...could be that a predominance of cases over the last month are in younger and younger people.

Also much of what we have learned are ways to keep people off vents to begin with.

 

[WreckinGT]

Well of course there is a difference in your 2 perspectives:
1) If you shut down the economy, people's livelihoods will be destroyed - we've already proven that.
2) If you don't shut down, you can wear a mask, socially distance, and practice good hygiene, and you won't end up in the hospital or dead.

So quite a difference there in your 2 perspectives.

There are plenty of people who did number 2 above and ended up in the hospital or dead. If you can come up with a grand social scheme that gets everyone to act responsibly then maybe we can consider it as a legitimate possibility.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

There are plenty of people who did number 2 above and ended up in the hospital or dead. If you can come up with a grand social scheme that gets everyone to act responsibly then maybe we can consider it as a legitimate possibility.

Show me 1 single person who wore a mask, stayed socially distant, practiced good hygiene, and they died of the virus. That list is infinitesimally small. But I will give you a thumbs up for saying that plenty of people have done a number 2.

 

[TechPreacher]

I find myself in agreement with most of your posts, but the use of a Nazi symbol on ANYTHING is offensive to me and, I believe, most Americans. Although perhaps legally that cannot be prevented, it should definitely be slammed by all.

I'm perfectly fine with that. But it still intrigues me how people (not pointing this at you) can get so upset over stuff that doesn't exist anymore, and yet they are fine with present problems that trouble us today. For instance, Nazi Germany doesn't exist anymore, but Marxism is taking over Western society, and most Americans aren't offended. American slavery ended 150 years ago, yet African slavery never ceased, and it still thrives among the same race, and absolutely no one is offended or even cares. I guess we all have the right to be offended by what we choose to be offended by, whether it makes sense or not.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

I'm perfectly fine with that. But it still intrigues me how people (not pointing this at you) can get so upset over stuff that doesn't exist anymore, and yet they are fine with present problems that trouble us today. For instance, Nazi Germany doesn't exist anymore, but Marxism is taking over Western society, and most Americans aren't offended. American slavery ended 150 years ago, yet African slavery never ceased, and it still thrives among the same race, and absolutely no one is offended or even cares. I guess we all have the right to be offended by what we choose to be offended by, whether it makes sense or not.

I do find it really intriguing that the places struggling with this anarchy are places like Portland and Minnesota, the whitest wokest places in the country. They are literal ****holes right now full of white people losing their ****. Crazy.

 

[WreckinGT]

Show me 1 single person who wore a mask, stayed socially distant, practiced good hygiene, and they died of the virus. That list is infinitesimally small. But I will give you a thumbs up for saying that plenty of people have done a number 2.

lol. Yeah, felt weird even typing it. Are you really suggesting though that everyone who has died or been hospitalized in this country due to Covid didn't wear a mask or wash their hands?

 

[Deleted member 2897]

lol. Yeah, felt weird even typing it. Are you really suggesting though that everyone who has died or been hospitalized in this country due to Covid didn't wear a mask or wash their hands?

Did you mean to leave out the most important part - staying socially distant? But yes, what I’m saying is if you do those 3 things you can completely avoid the virus...except in probably a few outlier cases.

 

[BeachBuzz]

It's an extrapolation, of course. How else could a study like this be conducted? But obviously, if you prevent spread of the virus you will prevent death. And if it's delayed, it may well be delayed until after a vaccination, in which case delay becomes prevention.

Ok. Let's say that closing down prevents deaths (I don't think it prevents significantly more deaths than it causes). If it does, how long would you propose shutting down and how would you reopen? How much would you shut down? How would you enforce said shut down?

 

[Techster]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: The United States is past the point of shutting down the second time.

For economic and logistical reasons, it's no longer tenable. There are so many political, societal, and economic differences that it's no longer reasonable for us to try another shutdown because we'll f&ck it up again and even more businesses will shutter this time, and even more families will plunge into debt or become insolvent...and all for nothing because no one can get on the same page.

Our best hope is for the citizens to start being smart about socializing (good luck), self quarantine outside of having to go out for essentials & having to work (good luck again), and the medical world to develop a vaccine (cross your fingers). Since the US opened back up from the shut down, we are all witnessing how the first two is going (we suck), so the reality is the United States is going to continue to hurt until there's a vaccine because we can't count on ourselves to behave for the good of our own country.

Remember the whole "there are more people dying from car crashes" argument? Well, it's now 40K car deaths (in 2019) versus 147K+ Covid deaths (in 7 months of 2020). How about the flu is worse? Well it now stands at 35K flu deaths (2018-2019) to 147K+ (in 7 months of 2020). That's not even counting the toll of factories shutting down because workers are too sick to show up for work and costs of food and everyday items rising because of supply and demand.

We're having the same arguments we had when this began. Some of us think the whole thing is overblown, the rest are screaming that the sky is falling. The truth is somewhere in the middle, but there's a lot going on in the middle that needs to be done, and the United States is just not doing it. So we're going to continue to see the Covid numbers climb, and our economy is sitting on a dangerous precipice while our Federal government props it up. Let's hope a strong wind doesn't come our way between now and a viable vaccine because more than likely our economy is falling off that precipice into an abyss.

 

[TechPreacher]

Ok. Let's say that closing down prevents deaths (I don't think it prevents significantly more deaths than it causes). If it does, how long would you propose shutting down and how would you reopen? How much would you shut down? How would you enforce said shut down?

Don't ask for specifics. Specifics destroy the straw man. The truth is, "just another two weeks".

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Ok. Let's say that closing down prevents deaths (I don't think it prevents significantly more deaths than it causes). If it does, how long would you propose shutting down and how would you reopen? How much would you shut down? How would you enforce said shut down?

Well that theory he’s advocating and that those “scientists” advocate is formally called flattening the curve. The entire theory is that the area under the curve is essentially the same, but you delay out infections so you don’t flood hospitals. So anybody who says that flattening the curve saves infections and deaths is failing...their hope is that additional lives from overfilled hospitals are avoided and that a vaccine eventually comes upon the scene. But absent that, the math is the same. That’s why despite what some would call our situation here dire, our per capita deaths are still better (or not much different) from Europe. And that’s even on top of superior data (several countries over there have publicly stated tens and tens and tens of thousands of people (In aggregate) died uncounted.)

 

[BeachBuzz]

Well that theory he’s advocating and that those “scientists” advocate is formally called flattening the curve. The entire theory is that the area under the curve is essentially the same, but you delay out infections so you don’t flood hospitals. So anybody who says that flattening the curve saves infections and deaths is failing...their hope is that additional lives from overfilled hospitals are avoided and that a vaccine eventually comes upon the scene. But absent that, the math is the same. That’s why despite what some would call our situation here dire, our per capita deaths are still better (or not much different) from Europe. And that’s even on top of superior data (several countries over there have publicly stated tens and tens and tens of thousands of people (In aggregate) died uncounted.)

The problem is they moved the goalpost from flattening the curve to somehow stopping the spread of the virus.

 

[TechPreacher]

It's an extrapolation, of course. How else could a study like this be conducted? But obviously, if you prevent spread of the virus you will prevent death. And if it's delayed, it may well be delayed until after a vaccination, in which case delay becomes prevention.

1) You will never prevent death. Half of the deaths occurred in nursing homes, where the people were near or above life expectancy. If it wasn't covid, it would have been something else, soon. And some of them didn't even die from covid, but covid got blamed for it. https://www.westernjournal.com/family-says-government-lying-oklahoma-grandpas-covid-death/

2) Are you going to force me to get the vaccination? Good luck with that.