Coronavirus Thread

[Techster]

Probably too soon to have the philosophical discussion... not probably, it is too soon.

But do we have a duty & obligation to not drive our cars due risk of death to others? How much pain/death is acceptable given the benefit of actions?

I did not read the referenced article in the tweet, but there does need to be a risk assessment to all our behavior....now and going forward.

For record, I'm doing my part on social distancing.

The whole automobile comparison is asinine...sorry, I'm not calling you stupid, just the argument.

If I was in a car by myself, and got into an accident, I'm the only one affected (if I hit a tree) and there would only be only another person affected if it was another car (and there was a single person in that car). When I get home from the accident, the accident virus doesn't transfer to my girlfriend or any members of my family. They aren't going out and immediately getting into accidents because of my accident.

If I go out, get infected with the coronavirus, I most definitely will infect my girlfriend/family/friends. When they become symptomatic, they most definitely will infect others...and it most definitely will become a chain of infection that spreads exponentially.

People think it's just media hysteria, but China is a communist country and gives 2 sh!ts what others think of their way. They are shutting down entire cities...and by shutting down entire cities, I mean they are not even letting people out of homes, unlike what we're allowed to do with our "shelter in place" rules. Shelter in place compared to what China is doing would be heaven to those people. China is being ruthless with this because they know the consequences.

 

[kg01]

There’s a lot of people that have not been overseas or have lived a sheltered life in their burb house behind their gate.

I knew it would take long for the “always offended” crowd to raise their hackles and scream racism. The default reason they’re not getting more of what someone else has.

Nope, there's a piece of the conversation that you missed.

 

[FredJacket]

The whole automobile comparison is asinine...sorry, I'm not calling you stupid, just the argument.

If I was in a car by myself, and got into an accident, I'm the only one affected (if I hit a tree) and there would only be only another person affected if it was another car (and there was a single person in that car). When I get home from the accident, the accident virus doesn't transfer to my girlfriend or any members of my family. They aren't going out and immediately getting into accidents because of my accident.

If I go out, get infected with the coronavirus, I most definitely will infect my girlfriend/family/friends. When they become symptomatic, they most definitely will infect others...and it most definitely will become a chain of infection that spreads exponentially.

People think it's just media hysteria, but China is a communist country and gives 2 sh!ts what others think of their way. They are shutting down entire cities...and by shutting down entire cities, I mean they are not even letting people out of homes, unlike what we're allowed to do with our "shelter in place" rules. Shelter in place compared to what China is doing would be heaven to those people. China is being ruthless with this because they know the consequences.

Fair response. I agree. The way you interpreted my the driving thing would be asinine. I wasn't saying deaths in car wrecks is like a virus. Simply saying our behavior & decisions on what we do should be framed in the risk to those around us to overall benefits.

 

[GT_EE78]

Finally a day when US new cases dropped from 35K to 24K. hope this continues
.
Euro;s seem to be a bit ahead
Italy reported its lowest daily toll in two weeks, a possible indication the tide may be turning
In Spain, officials said fatality numbers had fallen for the third straight day while France reported its lowest daily toll in a week.

 

[Techster]

Fair response. I agree. The way you interpreted my the driving thing would be asinine. I wasn't saying deaths in car wrecks is like a virus. Simply saying our behavior & decisions on what we do should be framed in the risk to those around us to overall benefits.

I understood your comment. My point is to even use the car accident scenario with regard to the virus doesn't even compute.

Maybe I'm overreacting to this one comparison because I've seen too many stupid people on Facebook try to use auto accidents to try and defend continuing to live their life as if nothing is going on. It's infuriating because those are the people that are going to keep "shelter in place" enforced and prevent others from returning to work sooner.

 

[LibertyTurns]

Nope, there's a piece of the conversation that you missed.

I stand corrected. Guess I was off-base.

 

[bobongo]

I stand corrected. Guess I was off-base.

Didn't read : =)

 

[RonJohn]

I understood your comment. My point is to even use the car accident scenario with regard to the virus doesn't even compute.

Maybe I'm overreacting to this one comparison because I've seen too many stupid people on Facebook try to use auto accidents to try and defend continuing to live their life as if nothing is going on. It's infuriating because those are the people that are going to keep "shelter in place" enforced and prevent others from returning to work sooner.

I think a more apt comparison to what you are describing is driving at 120mph and weaving thru traffic.

People are in general are not concerned about 38,000 deaths per year by auto accident. People in general are not concerned about 12k to 60k flu deaths per year. There wasn't a lot of news coverage of 80k flu deaths in 2018.

Does that mean that there shouldn't be social distancing guidelines or enforcement? No. However, there should be risk/benefit analysis. At what cost do you save what number of lives? It isn't any cost for one life. If it was then auto traffic wouldn't be allowed. It also isn't only $1 for 10 million lives. I am not complaining about the things we are doing, I am just pointing out that people dying is a fact of life. People should do what they can to keep people safe, but at some point keeping everyone safe is too much of a cost.

I would also point out that if the current hand washing and covering up cough guidelines had been followed during flu season for the past ten years, that would have probably saved 500,000 American lives. The comparisons aren't all about belittling what we are doing now, it can also be used to point out that small actions can have a very great affect on deaths that we have considered "normal".

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Just look at social distancing like eating your veggies as a kid. You might not like it, but it's good for you...eat it first to get it out of the way then you can enjoy the nice T-bone steak.

IF we would have clamped down and went through shelter in place back in February when the numbers were far less and far more manageable, I'm sure all of us would be at the office and going to our favorite bars and restaurants at the end of the day.

But here we are.

We didn't have over 100 cases in the entire country until March. And that includes the cruise ship passengers and that nursing home in Seattle. February 1st we had 8 total cases. 8! There is a debate right now as to if we've overreacted. There is no way we would have been able to shut down the country like this against the health experts' recommendations way back then.

 

[Techster]

This isn't response to the tweet you posted. This is specifically about Clay Travis.

I use to really like Clay Travis. He was smart and insightful. He actually had something original to say and it was usually an insightful contrarian view that made you think. Outkickthecoverage was one of my favorite sites not just about sports, but about social commentary. Then he went to work for a major network and took on the same tact of Jason Whitlock and Skip Bayless. Writers and commentators who say something controversial just to get a reaction. It's become their schtick to say something controversial to incite a response. They got famous (and rich) from it, but they sold their souls.

 

[GT_EE78]

There’s a lot of people that have not been overseas or have lived a sheltered life in their burb house behind their gate..

I was fortunate to get into China- 1982, in the first 30 days of the country being open to individual tourists (versus tour groups).spent 3-4 months there including Wuhan..quite a experience.... Some people will bring identity politics into everything.they can be hard to reason with.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

I was fortunate to get into China- 1982, in the first 30 days of the country being open to individual tourists (versus tour groups).spent 3-4 months there including Wuhan..quite a experience.... Some people will bring identity politics into everything.they can be hard to reason with.

3 - 4 months? WOW. What kind of job did you have back then? I have been to China once, for a little over a week in 2006, but I only went to Guilin, Langshou, X'ian, and Beijing. It was a very memorable visit and was part of a round-the-world trip I took that year, with my first stop being in Hong Kong.

 

[GT_EE78]

3 - 4 months? WOW. What kind of job did you have back then? I have been to China once, for a little over a week in 2006, but I only went to Guilin, Langshou, X'ian, and Beijing. It was a very memorable visit and was part of a round-the-world trip I took that year, with my first stop being in Hong Kong.

I had to quit work to spend about 18 months travelling in asia. was working at Hughes aircraft space & comm before and after. Security loved reading my passport after return.

 

[stech81]

There’s a lot of people that have not been overseas or have lived a sheltered life in their burb house behind their gate.
.

I went to Alabama had to cross the Chattahoochee River that was like being overseas

 

[Milwaukee]

This isn't response to the tweet you posted. This is specifically about Clay Travis.

I use to really like Clay Travis. He was smart and insightful. He actually had something original to say and it was usually an insightful contrarian view that made you think. Outkickthecoverage was one of my favorite sites not just about sports, but about social commentary. Then he went to work for a major network and took on the same tact of Jason Whitlock and Skip Bayless. Writers and commentators who say something controversial just to get a reaction. It's become their schtick to say something controversial to incite a response. They got famous (and rich) from it, but they sold their souls.

Completely agree. I can’t stand him now, used to be somewhat interested in his content.

 

[MWBATL]

The whole automobile comparison is asinine...sorry, I'm not calling you stupid, just the argument.

If I was in a car by myself, and got into an accident, I'm the only one affected (if I hit a tree) and there would only be only another person affected if it was another car (and there was a single person in that car). When I get home from the accident, the accident virus doesn't transfer to my girlfriend or any members of my family. They aren't going out and immediately getting into accidents because of my accident.

If I go out, get infected with the coronavirus, I most definitely will infect my girlfriend/family/friends. When they become symptomatic, they most definitely will infect others...and it most definitely will become a chain of infection that spreads exponentially.

People think it's just media hysteria, but China is a communist country and gives 2 sh!ts what others think of their way. They are shutting down entire cities...and by shutting down entire cities, I mean they are not even letting people out of homes, unlike what we're allowed to do with our "shelter in place" rules. Shelter in place compared to what China is doing would be heaven to those people. China is being ruthless with this because they know the consequences.

I have to disagree. Comparing the automobile issue to quarantining...yes, that is asinine. But comparing the whole response to covid-19 to auto deaths is not...in this sense.

In both cases, society makes decisions about what is an acceptable level of deaths compared to restrictions on commerce. We could choose to outlaw driving by private citizens and would probably save around 35,000 people every year. Moreover, we would be losing disproportionally the younger people who have less experience and are less cautious when driving. But, as a society, we choose not to do that. We can opine why and wax poetic about it, but we do........ we accept those 35,000 deaths per year.

With coronavirus...in the long run, it will be pretty much like any other flu....it is much more contagious than some flus, much less lethal than others, but once we get a handle on a vaccine and treatment, it will likely result in a limited number (35,000 maybe?) of deaths per year. And it will disproportionally kill those who are already older and with underlying health conditions.

Short run...we had to do what we did to avoid horrible situations at our hospitals. Long run...this disease is not that big a deal for a society that makes those kinds of choices....

 

[bobongo]

I have to disagree. Comparing the automobile issue to quarantining...yes, that is asinine. But comparing the whole response to covid-19 to auto deaths is not...in this sense.

In both cases, society makes decisions about what is an acceptable level of deaths compared to restrictions on commerce. We could choose to outlaw driving by private citizens and would probably save around 35,000 people every year. Moreover, we would be losing disproportionally the younger people who have less experience and are less cautious when driving. But, as a society, we choose not to do that. We can opine why and wax poetic about it, but we do........ we accept those 35,000 deaths per year.

With coronavirus...in the long run, it will be pretty much like any other flu....it is much more contagious than some flus, much less lethal than others, but once we get a handle on a vaccine and treatment, it will likely result in a limited number (35,000 maybe?) of deaths per year. And it will disproportionally kill those who are already older and with underlying health conditions.

Short run...we had to do what we did to avoid horrible situations at our hospitals. Long run...this disease is not that big a deal for a society that makes those kinds of choices....

The death rate is only one aspect of the disease. The hospitalization rate is far higher than the flu, causing hospitals in some areas to be filled to overflowing. It's having a deleterious effect on the entire health care system.

 

[WreckinGT]

I have to disagree. Comparing the automobile issue to quarantining...yes, that is asinine. But comparing the whole response to covid-19 to auto deaths is not...in this sense.

In both cases, society makes decisions about what is an acceptable level of deaths compared to restrictions on commerce. We could choose to outlaw driving by private citizens and would probably save around 35,000 people every year. Moreover, we would be losing disproportionally the younger people who have less experience and are less cautious when driving. But, as a society, we choose not to do that. We can opine why and wax poetic about it, but we do........ we accept those 35,000 deaths per year.

With coronavirus...in the long run, it will be pretty much like any other flu....it is much more contagious than some flus, much less lethal than others, but once we get a handle on a vaccine and treatment, it will likely result in a limited number (35,000 maybe?) of deaths per year. And it will disproportionally kill those who are already older and with underlying health conditions.

Short run...we had to do what we did to avoid horrible situations at our hospitals. Long run...this disease is not that big a deal for a society that makes those kinds of choices....

Outlawing driving by private citizens would likely cost more lives than it would save.

 

[MWBATL]

Outlawing driving by private citizens would likely cost more lives than it would save.

How do you figure that?

 

[MWBATL]

The death rate is only one aspect of the disease. The hospitalization rate is far higher than the flu, causing hospitals in some areas to be filled to overflowing. It's having a deleterious effect on the entire health care system.

Yes, but as I said, that is true only on the short run. In the long run once treatments and vaccines are developed, this will be no big deal.