Conference Realignment

[stinger78]

Really? Try to pay off $250M in debt with lower value media rights.

I think we have raised a lot of funds for new buildings. Those donors would have to give approval to redirect those donations but under the circumstances it could be done. I’m also relatively certain that we could restructure a good bit of it, especially if the foundation stepped in with collateral. President Cabrera seems to be a forward looking guy. Desperate times call for innovative solutions. We can do that. What is the lender(s) going to do? Kill the very program that could pay their money back? You guys worry too much.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Who would you want from the Big 12?

You could make an argument for Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, and Kansas. All are AAU member schools and would add more depth to the western half of the conference.

 

[TechPhi97]

One thing that doesn't get discussed enough is the impact of not being in the P2, or heaven forbid, not being in at least the CURRENT equivalent of the ACC/Big12 conference will have on fanbase and donor contributions. Let's also remember, GT has some of the most debt for a college sports program.

Over time, fanbase will plummet along with donor support. It won't happen overnight, but it will be long decay...and we've already seen it happen between the time GT left the SEC and becoming a member of the ACC. In many ways, we still haven't recovered. We won't be able to attract money to upgrade or even keep up our facilities. Our coaching and player pool dwindles.

As I said in the post above, I think GT is in a much better situation than some on here think, but there is a scenario where GT has to step down a level (or two). The implications of that aren't discussed enough.

While our Athletics related debt is the 5th highest (~278M) out of the 53 universities that report numbers in the Big 5 conferences, that doesn't really tell the whole story. We rank 17th when it comes to total paid for debt service/leases/rental fees. The athletics related debt doesn't reflect endowments or other commitments that we use to pay down that debt, nor the structure of that debt.

If you look at the ratio of our debt service, leases and rental fees paid to the overall debt, we actually have the 11th BEST ratio of those 53 teams. ~$13M / ~$278 = 4.7%. This tells me that we've done a few things well: structured our debt over time to match our finances, managed capital fundraising well to be able to handle those debt payments, and managed our endowment (Tech Foundation) in such a way that we have a good backstop.

I know after COVID we had some issues, but it feels like we're in a much better spot than "we have one of the highest debt levels in major college sports".

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

I think we have raised a lot of funds for new buildings. Those donors would have to give approval to redirect those donations but under the circumstances it could be done. I’m also relatively certain that we could restructure a good bit of it, especially if the foundation stepped in with collateral. President Cabrera seems to be a forward looking guy. Desperate times call for innovative solutions. We can do that. What is the lender(s) going to do kill the very program that could pay their money back? You guys worry too much.

We are raising lots of funds for new buildings, but not paying off old buildings we owe money for. People love to donate to see something being built, but it's really hard to get people to donate to pay off debt.

 

[stinger78]

We are raising lots of funds for new buildings, but not paying off old buildings we owe money for. People love to donate to see something being built, but it's really hard to get people to donate to pay off debt.

Desperate times.

 

[Vespidae]

I think we have raised a lot of funds for new buildings. Those donors would have to give approval to redirect those donations but under the circumstances it could be done. I’m also relatively certain that we could restructure a good bit of it, especially if the foundation stepped in with collateral. President Cabrera seems to be a forward looking guy. Desperate times call for innovative solutions. We can do that. What is the lender(s) going to do? Kill the very program that could pay their money back? You guys worry too much.

I don’t worry at all. I’m not the one with the debt. But we will see. In 40 years, I have never seen the GTAA attempt to address its debt other than to grow it.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

While our Athletics related debt is the 5th highest (~278M) out of the 53 universities that report numbers in the Big 5 conferences, that doesn't really tell the whole story. We rank 17th when it comes to total paid for debt service/leases/rental fees. The athletics related debt doesn't reflect endowments or other commitments that we use to pay down that debt, nor the structure of that debt.

If you look at the ratio of our debt service, leases and rental fees paid to the overall debt, we actually have the 11th BEST ratio of those 53 teams. ~$13M / ~$278 = 4.7%. This tells me that we've done a few things well: structured our debt over time to match our finances, managed capital fundraising well to be able to handle those debt payments, and managed our endowment (Tech Foundation) in such a way that we have a good backstop.

I know after COVID we had some issues, but it feels like we're in a much better spot than "we have one of the highest debt levels in major college sports".

All this is true...AS LONG AS we have the income stream to make it happen. If we were to lose revenue because of our future conference affiliation then those numbers will not look as good.

 

[CEB]

Who would you want from the Big 12?

That’s a good question…. And I’ve kinda lost track of who is over there!
I’m not sure if we would want anyone else… I just see those teams moving East before our guys move west.
Playing that out, though…UCF would seem a geographic fit and maybe worthwhile if we thought we’d lose both FSU and Miami. Would having WVU and the Backyard Brawl in the ACC be worth getting the mountaineers?
Maybe the Arizona schools or Utah? Lots of people speculate scheduling is easier if there are several teams in the region (don’t know if I buy that or not).
I guess the short answer may be whomever the media guys say brings value!

 

[orientalnc]

You could make an argument for Arizona, Arizona State, Colorado, and Kansas. All are AAU member schools and would add more depth to the western half of the conference.

I agree, but would also add Utah to the list. Maybe UCF and Cincy. WVU would love to be in the ACC, but their academics are only slightly better than DeVry.

 

[Vespidae]

That’s a good question…. And I’ve kinda lost track of who is over there!
I’m not sure if we would want anyone else… I just see those teams moving East before our guys move west.
Playing that out, though…UCF would seem a geographic fit and maybe worthwhile if we thought we’d lose both FSU and Miami. Would having WVU and the Backyard Brawl in the ACC be worth getting the mountaineers?
Maybe the Arizona schools or Utah? Lots of people speculate scheduling is easier if there are several teams in the region (don’t know if I buy that or not).
I guess the short answer may be whomever the media guys say brings value!

Gear moves by truck. Scheduling a game in Arizona followed by a game in Carolina would be a nightmare.

 

[RonJohn]

Gear moves by truck. Scheduling a game in Arizona followed by a game in Carolina would be a nightmare.

ND has been playing games on the West coast and in the South for decades. It isn't impossible.

EDIT: Plus if there were More SEC Teams west of Texas, it would be much easier to schedule a lot regionally and have fewer games per year crossing the Mississippi.

 

[CEB]

Gear moves by truck. Scheduling a game in Arizona followed by a game in Carolina would be a nightmare.

Like I said, I’m not sure I buy it… but lots of folks claim “travel partners” and multiple teams help scheduling.
Admittedly, Im reaching for who we might want from the B12.

 

[Vespidae]

ND has been playing games on the West coast and in the South for decades. It isn't impossible.

No, but it’s damn expensive. And the don’t do it every week.

 

[stinger78]

I don’t worry at all. I’m not the one with the debt. But we will see. In 40 years, I have never seen the GTAA attempt to address its debt other than to grow it.

Yes, we will see. It will be OK. Lenders don’t like to foreclose on debt that they cannot liquidate.

 

[Vespidae]

Yes, we will see. It will be OK. Lenders don’t like to foreclose on debt that they cannot liquidate.

Sorry, it it’s NOT ok. It has been the major Albatross around GTAA’s neck for decades. It’s one reason we have so little maneuvering room. You can’t hire if you have so little cash to spare.

 

[stinger78]

Sorry, it it’s NOT ok. It has been the major Albatross around GTAA’s neck for decades. It’s one reason we have so little maneuvering room. You can’t hire if you have so little cash to spare.

Sigh. I didn’t say that the debt is OK. I said that we will be OK after the shift occurs. Did you read TechPhi97’s post above? We are actually good at paying and restructuring debt. GA Tech has resources at her disposal. Yes, though, the debt is bad and hurts us.

 

[billga99]

No, but it’s damn expensive. And the don’t do it every week.

If you get enough teams out West, would make sense to split into divisions to let them play each other on a regular basis. Split into 3 divisions and Top 2 Ranked Division Winners play each other. Assuming FSU, Clemson, UNC and Miami depart.
West - Stanford, Cal, SMU, AZ, ASU, Colorado or Utah (6 teams). could add both to make 7 teams
North - BC, Syracuse, Pitt, Louisville, VA, VT (6 teams). could add WV to make 7 teams.
South - GT, NC St, WF, Duke, VA, VT (6 teams). Could add UCF to make 7 teams.

If you had 7 teams in each division, 6 games would be in division and 2 would float. Or maybe go to 9 conference games and have 3 float. A couple of issues/questions. Would be back to playing many schools very infrequently. Even with 3 floating, takes 5 years to hit every school. With 2 floating, takes 7 years. Second is what does this alignment become worth in TV dollars. If you had 21 teams total, basketball would play each team once.

If you merged ACC and Big 12, would have ~30 schools. Could divide into 2 conference with 2 divisions each. Again only makes sense if you can keep TV dollars equal or better than today. I don't see that happening with ESPN and CW and whatever mix you throw in covering Big 12.

Bottom line is I think by the end of this decade, there will be dramatic changes to the landscape. What speeds this up is Big Ten and SEC bolting to form their own league seperate from the NCAA. I think they would help pay money to pick off a few big name schools from the ACC and maybe Big 12 and likely Notre Dame.

 

[Vespidae]

Sigh. I didn’t say that the debt is OK. I said that we will be OK after the shift occurs. Did you read TechPhi97’s post above? We are actually good at paying and restructuring debt. GA Tech has resources at her disposal. Yes, though, the debt is bad and hurts us.

I'm not as optimistic as you. If the ACC breaks up and Tech sees reduced media payments... we will be stuck like Chuck.

 

[L41k18]

You guys worry too much.

Preach.

 

[L41k18]

In 40 years, I have never seen the GTAA attempt to address its debt other than to grow it.

Sounds like another (much much larger, think national) institution. And it's been going on for almost 200 years, not 40.