Conference Realignment

[roadkill]

There are very few independents left...most are in a conference. And schedules are normally out a few years. I don't think it will be easy to put together an independent schedule for a few years. Since the GOR don't belong to FSU at the point, why wouldn't their opponents want to play FSU at their home field instead of the revenue going to the ACC.

When we left the SEC we continued to play an SEC schedule, or close to one, for several years. Conceivably that type of situation would be where FSU finds itself if they left before the GOR expiration. They just wouldn't receive any revenue distribution from the ACC. This would still work in favor of the remaining ACC teams, so I don't see why they would oppose it if FSU allowed it. And they might have to, given that they would otherwise be scrambling to fill 8 game slots quickly.

 

[roadkill]

that is not a breach of contract

If it were, it might be grounds for the ACC to sue FSU, Miami, and Clemson. The SEC isn’t upset because Arkansas can’t make then CFP. It’s the top teams in the conference who get in, and Miami and FSU haven’t lived up to their expectations in year. At no point were ADs or school presidents expecting Wake or Duke to be the playoff representatives—that was Clemson, FSU, Miami, and VT. Maybe UNC, or even us as a long shot.

Pretty sure you're responding to a typically hyperbolic statement made by @SOWEGA Jacket to emphasize his point. If he is actually serious, then his demeanor has certainly changed from prior posts.

 

[slugboy]

Pretty sure you're responding to a typically hyperbolic statement made by @SOWEGA Jacket to emphasize his point. If he is actually serious, then his demeanor has certainly changed from prior posts.

Sadly, it seems to be one of FSU’s legal arguments—or several of them

 

[orientalnc]

When we left the SEC we continued to play an SEC schedule, or close to one, for several years. Conceivably that type of situation would be where FSU finds itself if they left before the GOR expiration. They just wouldn't receive any revenue distribution from the ACC. This would still work in favor of the remaining ACC teams, so I don't see why they would oppose it if FSU allowed it. And they might have to, given that they would otherwise be scrambling to fill 8 game slots quickly.

When GT left the SEC they were one of 27 independent teams. They continued to play some SEC teams with whom they had home & home contracts for several years. The way conference schedules are made now, I doubt FSU would play any ACC teams after they withdrew. Notice that SMU, Stanford and Cal will play an ACC schedule this year. The next few years have proposed ACC pairings, but that would change if FSU withdraws.

 

[stinger78]

Who gives a toot in the wind what F$U does if they leave the ACC?

 

[WreckinGT]

They would have that issue regardless of how much money they have to pay to leave. FSU does not, at least publically, have an offer to join any other conference, and it's debatable whether they would even get one from a better financed conference seeing as they are combative towards their own conference, not an AAU member, and UF and ESPN could block them from the SEC. You will not win a court case arguing about a theoretical future possibility.

Do you really believe that FSU should be allowed to break the GOR they signed multiple times and leave the ACC with their media rights in hand, penalty-free?

No I don't. This discussion started originally because of FSU's inclusion of expected media rights cost in their legal complaint. The discussion was about how those shouldn't be included simply because they are rights owned by the ACC. Then the discussion turned towards, could the ACC actually use the GOR to just prevent them from leaving. I think that is a very messy legal avenue for the ACC to go down. My personal opinion is this is going to end with FSU paying at least a large portion of the exit fee, and a reduced portion of the projected value of the media rights in a settlement. They certainly won't get out penalty free. They will pay a large amount to leave but it isn't going to be anywhere near 572 million dollars. The other route for the ACC is several years of lawsuits, discovery, public embarrassment, etc. And they may end up getting less anyways. That doesn't seem like a route the ACC or ESPN is going to want to go down.

 

[orientalnc]

No I don't. This discussion started originally because of FSU's inclusion of expected media rights cost in their legal complaint. The discussion was about how those shouldn't be included simply because they are rights owned by the ACC. Then the discussion turned towards, could the ACC actually use the GOR to just prevent them from leaving. I think that is a very messy legal avenue for the ACC to go down. My personal opinion is this is going to end with FSU paying at least a large portion of the exit fee, and a reduced portion of the projected value of the media rights in a settlement. They certainly won't get out penalty free. They will pay a large amount to leave but it isn't going to be anywhere near 572 million dollars. The other route for the ACC is several years of lawsuits, discovery, public embarrassment, etc. And they may end up getting less anyways. That doesn't seem like a route the ACC or ESPN is going to want to go down.

The ACC might have to negotiate the exit fee, but not the GOR. The more research I do and talk to attorneys doing contracts and licensing, the GOR is air tight. FSU is like a dog on my cycling route. He can see me ride by and bark, but the long chain keeps in the owner's yard. I know it must be frustrating, but there's nothing he can do but bark.

 

[g0lftime]

It's called Free Will. FSU freely entered the contract multiple times. That leaving might be a bad business decision is irrelevant.

Coca-Cola famously signed a contract guaranteeing to sell syrup at a fixed price regardless of the price of sugar. At the time, they thought no one would ever want to bottle Coca-Cola and drink it at home. They were wrong. For about 100 years. Finally had to buy all the bottlers to break the contract.

Look at the name on the front of the Tech tower. That is from a very large donation from the foundation that came up with bottling coke. Happened in Chattanooga.

 

[roadkill]

When GT left the SEC they were one of 27 independent teams. They continued to play some SEC teams with whom they had home & home contracts for several years. The way conference schedules are made now, I doubt FSU would play any ACC teams after they withdrew. Notice that SMU, Stanford and Cal will play an ACC schedule this year. The next few years have proposed ACC pairings, but that would change if FSU withdraws.

You may be correct about the conference rescheduling, but again, what's to stop us from say, playing an OOC home and home with FSU in 2026/27, knowing that all the media revenue goes to the ACC regardless, and we would receive a share of ACC revenue for an OOC game?
Miami is currently scheduled to play them at Doak Campbell in 2025. If FSU leaves, and the ACC backfills this game with another conference opponent to Miami, I imagine Miami would like to keep the game as OOC.

This is all pure speculation on my part to counter the notion that FSU wouldn't be able to create a decent schedule if they left the ACC. I note that they already have a home and home with Bama in 2025/26 to bookend their annual home and home with Florida, so even if they have to use a bunch of G5 teams as filler, they would have a couple of marquee games regardless.

 

[Vespidae]

Interesting development …. Athletes are employees

MSN

www.msn.com

 

[Vespidae]

Look at the name on the front of the Tech tower. That is from a very large donation from the foundation that came up with bottling coke. Happened in Chattanooga.

Jack Lupton. Made billions. But in the early days, Coca Cola literally gave the bottling rights away.

 

[Techwood Relict]

I am fairly certain that's what FSU is attempting here.

I agree.

 

[g0lftime]

When we left the SEC we continued to play an SEC schedule, or close to one, for several years. Conceivably that type of situation would be where FSU finds itself if they left before the GOR expiration. They just wouldn't receive any revenue distribution from the ACC. This would still work in favor of the remaining ACC teams, so I don't see why they would oppose it if FSU allowed it. And they might have to, given that they would otherwise be scrambling to fill 8 game slots quickly.

I remember games with Auburn, UT, Bama, and UGA for several years after 1963. We also always played Clemson back then. We played Clemson like 16 straight years in Atlanta.

 

[slugboy]

No I don't. This discussion started originally because of FSU's inclusion of expected media rights cost in their legal complaint. The discussion was about how those shouldn't be included simply because they are rights owned by the ACC. Then the discussion turned towards, could the ACC actually use the GOR to just prevent them from leaving. I think that is a very messy legal avenue for the ACC to go down. My personal opinion is this is going to end with FSU paying at least a large portion of the exit fee, and a reduced portion of the projected value of the media rights in a settlement. They certainly won't get out penalty free. They will pay a large amount to leave but it isn't going to be anywhere near 572 million dollars. The other route for the ACC is several years of lawsuits, discovery, public embarrassment, etc. And they may end up getting less anyways. That doesn't seem like a route the ACC or ESPN is going to want to go down.

The column that @orientalnc shared looks useful—it’s clear and talks about copyright and contract law. One key piece is here

FSU’s complaint largely hinges on the claim that the GOR is a bad deal. However, merely entering into a bad deal is not a valid ground for voiding a contract. Completely absent from FSU’s complaint are traditional contract defenses such as fraud, duress, or misrepresentation, which are typically required to challenge the validity of a contract. (See Fn. 1, below.)

FSU brings up arguments that might be relevant to monetary amounts but do nothing to argue about the validity of the contract.

You could argue that the deal was a swindle, but they’re getting a reasonable market value (more than the Pac12 with USC and UCLA or the Big 12 teams), and it was certainly reasonable market value when they signed it. That’s a silly argument. That their payout values didn’t escalate like the SEC is nearly impossible to argue since they haven’t been a playoff worthy team for a decade—if they and Miami and VT had done their job, the network would be more valuable.

As an example, If I argued that my franchise contract hadn’t lived up to expectations, and I’d run a losing or barely break even business for half of the last decade, some of the blame would point back at me.

 

[roadkill]

Interesting development …. Athletes are employees

MSN

www.msn.com

This, while it has been forecasted, is a seismic shift. This probably belongs in another thread or a thread of its own.

 

[WreckinGT]

The ACC might have to negotiate the exit fee, but not the GOR. The more research I do and talk to attorneys doing contracts and licensing, the GOR is air tight. FSU is like a dog on my cycling route. He can see me ride by and bark, but the long chain keeps in the owner's yard. I know it must be frustrating, but there's nothing he can do but bark.

If the ACC is completely unwilling to settle on anything then the league and ESPN will be in court for several years, with many things made public that they probably would rather not be. Then FSU will leave anyways. The reason the Big 12 gave up $60 million dollars and let Texas and Oklahoma off the hook:

Taylor told USA Today that league athletic directors fought back against letting Oklahoma and Texas off the hook short of the full amount they owe. However, he said Big 12 lawyers advised league leadership that trying to enforce the bylaws could result in the conference being "tied up on lawsuits forever."

 

[iceeater1969]

The amount of time matters significantly. Not only being able to assess the value of 1 year vs 10 years but the bigger problem FSU has right now is that whatever the ACC does sets a precedent that they have to live with for 12 years. Strike a deal with FSU today, then UNC, Clemson, etc have precedent to insist on the same deal tomorrow.
At some point the ACC will have agreed to dilute the ESPN deal simply by virtue of allowing payments in lieu of GOR. ESPN can then come at the ACC for breach of contract, right? Whatever payment ACC accepts has to take all of that into consideration.
It’s not quite as simple as arriving at a number. The ACC has a responsibility to ESPN and the GOR is their only vehicle to fulfill that responsibility.

FSU, Clemson, UNC are at the top. FSU - legendary program that keeps firing coaches till the get it right, just went undefeated. Clemson - tons of donations, winning on field, no scandals. UNC basketball legendary and a national brand, good donations, hired football coach who has great track record. Gt looks pitiful until we got a new president. Now we seem to have some life - NEW President - got the word at the spring acc meeting a few years ago and has been very positive and active. He has hired a good AD who is marketing to city of Atlanta. In Football we had a strong finish with bowl game. In Basketball we fired a guy that had scrartched out ACC tournemnt win and we have hired a passionate coach who starred in NBA. We flipped the team roster flipped and are likely to have a good recruiting class.

DOOM is where we are money wise = $250,000,000 debt and yearly alumni donations below $20,000,000 which is near bottom of ACC. This data is available online at the Knight Financial Data Base for NCAA athletics. GT has only made interest payments ($12,000,000) for over decade. The ESPN ACC , advertisers see this data. From a money stand point we look like free loaders.


I am sure giant ESPN/ACCN contract has required performance on each side of the contract.

When the the tv side sends a notice of failure to perform letter, things will need to happen fast on the money side.
At that time, just pointing out we are doing better than terrible is not a good plan. We will need to also have a pledged sack of money.
I wonder if we can get enough engineers to donate to a "lets us do a major part of building a championship quality football program".




go big football fund

happen fact to keep gt from being bankrup future - if we are lucky enough to have time - there will be a request for long term pledges to keep GT football out of





Even if its not specfici, lawyers will be able to find a way to make life misrable for us.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

FSU is just totally wrong in all this. Who would ever raise a hand to the group in Charlotte who is feeding us all, while the lazy Susan is having to be replaced with a bigger model. Nothing like seeing ACC teams featured in the CFB playoffs to excite the fanbases to pack the stadiums, and ours, to travel to Ireland. And the feeling I’ll get from watching UNC and Duke battle 62 other teams in March will have me chanting “ACC”!

Why any team would want to get out of such an incredible conference that has such elite coaches being hired like Geoff Collins is beyond me. If anything, GT should take the lead and ensure this conference stays intact by signing onto another GOR until 2056. That’s our best way of keeping teams like Michigan, Alabama, Ohio State, and the UGA’s from trying to join and infringe on our air time on the ACC Network or worse, the CW.

 

[roadkill]

If the ACC is completely unwilling to settle on anything then the league and ESPN will be in court for several years, with many things made public that they probably would rather not be. Then FSU will leave anyways. The reason the Big 12 gave up $60 million dollars and let Texas and Oklahoma off the hook:

There is a small difference in $60M plus being in court for several years when you have only 2 years left on a media contract, and 12 years left plus potentially nearly $600M. The two scenarios are nowhere near alike.

 

[orientalnc]

There is a small difference in $60M plus being in court for several years when you have only 2 years left on a media contract, and 12 years left plus potentially nearly $600M. The two scenarios are nowhere near alike.

Texas and Oklahoma timed their exit to have only one year left and paid the exit fee.