Conference Realignment

[Northeast Stinger]

The problem for the ACC is that they have only 3 teams in the Preseason Rankings. The SEC has 8 and the B1G has 5. There just isn't much oxygen for the ACC, media-wise.

And….so…FSU is using up what little oxygen the ACC has?

Makes sense.

But.

It still feels like a PR fail on the part of the ACC. If, say, Clemson, Miami and North Carolina, just to pick three, were to make a joint public statement that FSU is overreacting, and that, having reviewed the revenue streams and having discussed with ACC leadership the future plans for the conference, they are more bullish than ever and feel like the ACC will be challenging for a dominant position in national rankings in the next 3-4 years, that might give a different look.

I understand why no team is rushing to defend the ACC and nobody has said they are going to take little brother FSU off to the side and explain the facts of life to them, but letting FSU and the national pundits control the narrative is doing long term damage to the conference.

Anyone can feel free to talk me off this ledge. I recognize that the media is not always the same as reality. And that 90% of what is talked about on sports blogs is just make believe.

But, still, put this in perspective for me. The SEC proved several decades ago that positive spin, over-hyping, and faking it until you make it, eventually works to convince the sports pundits and the 18 year old athletes that your fake truth is now the real truth.

 

[RamblinRed]

Look at the amount of money the AA collects in donations (FY22: $6.9M). Then look at what UGA collects in donations (FY22: $74.3M). The difference is something like $70M per year. This is much more than the conference/media rights (GT: ~$37.5M vs UGA: ~$53M).

GT Link: https://finance.gatech.edu/sites/default/files/2022-10/GTAA_Financial_Statements-6-30-2022.pdf
UGA Link: https://georgiadogs.com/documents/2023/2/8/2021-22_Reporting_Year.pdf

Well unless I missed something they were talking about which rights they would get , big 12 and SEC but it did not say anything about the ACC

I Think it is just an oversight in the article.
If you buy a company you assume their contracts, you don't get to just ditch them. The other basic issue is that if you wanted to ditch the ACC who do you do a deal with to fill all that content. ACC provides more college content for ESPN than any other conference.


Also wanted to insert a message from the basketball board. This provides a good understanding of what different levels schools are operating on and how media contracts aren't really even the big differentiators.

If you compare GT"s financials to UGA's - GT had about $7M in donations compared to $74M for UGA.
In terms of ticket sales GT had just over $12M compared to $37M.

This would not be that unusual in the Big 2 conferences.
Take my dad's alma mater for example - Univ of WI.
They had only about $7M in donations as well, but their ticket sales were $38M. And schools like Ohio St and Michigan have much larger numbers.

So even if you get into a conference with a bigger payout - you are likely going to be at least $25M behind your conference mates (and could easily be close to $100M behind the top teams) in terms of revenue.

 

[Vespidae]

And….so…FSU is using up what little oxygen the ACC has?

Makes sense.

But.

It still feels like a PR fail on the part of the ACC. If, say, Clemson, Miami and North Carolina, just to pick three, were to make a joint public statement that FSU is overreacting, and that, having reviewed the revenue streams and having discussed with ACC leadership the future plans for the conference, they are more bullish than ever and feel like the ACC will be challenging for a dominant position in national rankings in the next 3-4 years, that might give a different look.

I understand why no team is rushing to defend the ACC and nobody has said they are going to take little brother FSU off to the side and explain the facts of life to them, but letting FSU and the national pundits control the narrative is doing long term damage to the conference.

Anyone can feel free to talk me off this ledge. I recognize that the media is not always the same as reality. And that 90% of what is talked about on sports blogs is just make believe.

But, still, put this in perspective for me. The SEC proved several decades ago that positive spin, over-hyping, and faking it until you make it, eventually works to convince the sports pundits and the 18 year old athletes that your fake truth is now the real truth.

Let's just do a quick comparison. In the past 30 days, the ACC has aired commercials 22 times and earned an airing rank of #2,552. In the same period, the SEC ran 188 commercials with an airing rank of #,1,674. Ironically, the headcount is almost the same (30 vs. 26)

The SEC controls its narrative much better than the ACC. And it is much more visible.

 

[orientalnc]

Here is where I think D1 is headed. These are the 20 schools I believe will initially make up the "Premier League" of college football. They will be the roster of teams ESPN/NBC/Fox will televise live. They will play nine Division games and three crossover games to determine seeding. The top four in each division will play an eight team playoff for the championship. ND will not be given a choice other than join or be relegated.

East of the Miss:
uga
Tenn
Fla
Bama
Aub
ND
tOSU
Mich
PSU
Clemson

West of the Miss:
LSU
Iowa
Ore
Wash
Okla St
Bay
Utah
USC
Okla
Tex

The NCAA is going to be forced into overseeing TV money supporting other sports. Clearly, these schools will have a ton more money.

 

[RamblinRed]

The odds of any sort of relegation process happening in college football is very close to 0.

First, no other sport in the US has a similar structure.
Second, even the idea that one of the blue blood type programs could ever be relegated is something they would never allow to be considered.

 

[orientalnc]

The odds of any sort of relegation process happening in college football is very close to 0.

First, no other sport in the US has a similar structure.
Second, even the idea that one of the blue type programs could ever be relegated is something they would never allow to be considered.

I would quibble around the edges a bit with the teams. And, probably the numbers. But, we already have a "relegated" system in place. Except for FSU, who has been a serious contender for the playoffs in the past 20 years that is not on that list? If you are relegated officially, or relegated due to the economics of competing, the difference is only in the semantics.

 

[roadkill]

I would quibble around the edges a bit with the teams. And, probably the numbers. But, we already have a "relegated" system in place. Except for FSU, who has been a serious contender for the playoffs in the past 20 years that is not on that list? If you are relegated officially, or relegated due to the economics of competing, the difference is only in the semantics.

Agreed. The relegation will occur indirectly via the playoff system.
Also, 20 teams only support 10 games per week, with less for bye weeks. Across the P5 you have roughly 35 games per week. Sure, many of those are not the highest ratings, but they’re still content that generates ad dollars. What makes more sense is that we’re headed toward those top 20 (or 24, or 28) teams being in a playoff series that will generate more revenue than any single conference. It's all about maximizing revenue.

 

[MountainBuzzMan]

Here is where I think D1 is headed. These are the 20 schools I believe will initially make up the "Premier League" of college football. They will be the roster of teams ESPN/NBC/Fox will televise live. They will play nine Division games and three crossover games to determine seeding. The top four in each division will play an eight team playoff for the championship. ND will not be given a choice other than join or be relegated.

East of the Miss:
uga
Tenn
Fla
Bama
Aub
ND
tOSU
Mich
PSU
Clemson

West of the Miss:
LSU
Iowa
Ore
Wash
Okla St
Bay
Utah
USC
Okla
Tex

The NCAA is going to be forced into overseeing TV money supporting other sports. Clearly, these schools will have a ton more money.

32 is a more realistic number. just like the NFL. 20 is just odd (Or is it even?)

 

[LT 1967]

And….so…FSU is using up what little oxygen the ACC has?

Makes sense.

But.

It still feels like a PR fail on the part of the ACC. If, say, Clemson, Miami and North Carolina, just to pick three, were to make a joint public statement that FSU is overreacting, and that, having reviewed the revenue streams and having discussed with ACC leadership the future plans for the conference, they are more bullish than ever and feel like the ACC will be challenging for a dominant position in national rankings in the next 3-4 years, that might give a different look.

I understand why no team is rushing to defend the ACC and nobody has said they are going to take little brother FSU off to the side and explain the facts of life to them, but letting FSU and the national pundits control the narrative is doing long term damage to the conference.

Anyone can feel free to talk me off this ledge. I recognize that the media is not always the same as reality. And that 90% of what is talked about on sports blogs is just make believe.

But, still, put this in perspective for me. The SEC proved several decades ago that positive spin, over-hyping, and faking it until you make it, eventually works to convince the sports pundits and the 18 year old athletes that your fake truth is now the real truth.

Absolutely agree! We take an absolute beating on our own contracted network. Where is the ACC PR department or Marketing staff if there is one. ACC commissioner?

Without looking very often, I see Greg Sankey on the SEC network updating the SEC fans and Finebaum fairly often.

Someone other than Bubba Cunningham needs to speak up for the ACC.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

Absolutely agree! We take an absolute beating on our own contracted network. Where is the ACC PR department or Marketing staff if there is one. ACC commissioner?

Without looking very often, I see Greg Sankey on the SEC network updating the SEC fans and Finebaum fairly often.

Someone other than Bubba Cunningham needs to speak up for the ACC.

I love the enthusiasm some of you show regarding the ACC and I appreciate it. The simple fact of the matter is you guys are 20-25 years too late. The ACC, thanks to poor conference leadership (although great leadership for the Carolina schools and Coach K and Dean) the ACC is the walking dead. I was you 20 years ago. Now, I’m just ready for it to die and go from there. The ACC has never lifted a finger for Georgia Tech. They didn’t campaign for us in 1990 (like they did for UVA early), they didn’t fight for us when stupid investigations landed us on probation, and they gave every team a bye week because they bought the media “blocking” propaganda. FSU is absolutely correct in ridiculing this country club gone bad.

If the ACC were serious they would poach those in the SEC offices right now just like Georgia Tech did by snagging JBatt from Bama. But instead they follow up Swofford with Phillips who came from a 1 team conference (maybe 2 if you buy Michigan these days). The sooner this thing dies the sooner Georgia Tech can take care of Georgia Tech. Sure, it is a scary time but so what. The best time to leave an abusive relationship is the first chance you get. I understand that time may not be right now but that doesn’t mean FSU, Clemson, or any other team should be muzzled.

 

[Root4GT]

I love the enthusiasm some of you show regarding the ACC and I appreciate it. The simple fact of the matter is you guys are 20-25 years too late. The ACC, thanks to poor conference leadership (although great leadership for the Carolina schools and Coach K and Dean) the ACC is the walking dead. I was you 20 years ago. Now, I’m just ready for it to die and go from there. The ACC has never lifted a finger for Georgia Tech. They didn’t campaign for us in 1990 (like they did for UVA early), they didn’t fight for us when stupid investigations landed us on probation, and they gave every team a bye week because they bought the media “blocking” propaganda. FSU is absolutely correct in ridiculing this country club gone bad.

If the ACC were serious they would poach those in the SEC offices right now just like Georgia Tech did by snagging JBatt from Bama. But instead they follow up Swofford with Phillips who came from a 1 team conference (maybe 2 if you buy Michigan these days). The sooner this thing dies the sooner Georgia Tech can take care of Georgia Tech. Sure, it is a scary time but so what. The best time to leave an abusive relationship is the first chance you get. I understand that time may not be right now but that doesn’t mean FSU, Clemson, or any other team should be muzzled.

I would bet Penn State would be a top 2-3 team in the ACC. Only Clemson would be a top tier team in the B1G. FSU could be on their way their now. The ACC simply has been a bad football conference for a long time.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

I would bet Penn State would be a top 2-3 team in the ACC. Only Clemson would be a top tier team in the B1G. FSU could be on their way their now. The ACC simply has been a bad football conference for a long time.

I don’t disagree but just because the ACC is lower than the BIG overall TODAY doesn’t mean anyone in the BIG outside of Ohio State is worth anything. That’s been proven time and time again when the SEC pounds the BIG. And to bring up simple facts since 2005 the ACC has 2 teams with legit Natties, the BIG has 1, and the SEC has 5. We should be bringing in execs from the SEC not the BIG. And just because FSU has had a hiccup since the Bowden/Fisher regimes doesn’t mean they’ll stay down, Their school and fans actually care so they’ll get back especially under NIL. All those old team in the BIG will continue to play the dwarf to OSU because those schools up north are simply not committed t9 winning like southern schools are. It’s just different priorities.

 

[forensicbuzz]

I don’t disagree but just because the ACC is lower than the BIG overall TODAY doesn’t mean anyone in the BIG outside of Ohio State is worth anything. That’s been proven time and time again when the SEC pounds the BIG. And to bring up simple facts since 2005 the ACC has 2 teams with legit Natties, the BIG has 1, and the SEC has 5. We should be bringing in execs from the SEC not the BIG. And just because FSU has had a hiccup since the Bowden/Fisher regimes doesn’t mean they’ll stay down, Their school and fans actually care so they’ll get back especially under NIL. All those old team in the BIG will continue to play the dwarf to OSU because those schools up north are simply not committed t9 winning like southern schools are. It’s just different priorities.

All this shows you know very little about the B1G. That doesn't surprise me. It's akin to listening to the fans up here talking about the SEC and ACC. It's just not in their neighborhood. They play big boy football up here too. (I'm not suggesting the B1G is all that, but your premise that OSU is the only thing worth anything in the B1G is laughable)

 

[LT 1967]

I love the enthusiasm some of you show regarding the ACC and I appreciate it. The simple fact of the matter is you guys are 20-25 years too late. The ACC, thanks to poor conference leadership (although great leadership for the Carolina schools and Coach K and Dean) the ACC is the walking dead. I was you 20 years ago. Now, I’m just ready for it to die and go from there. The ACC has never lifted a finger for Georgia Tech. They didn’t campaign for us in 1990 (like they did for UVA early), they didn’t fight for us when stupid investigations landed us on probation, and they gave every team a bye week because they bought the media “blocking” propaganda. FSU is absolutely correct in ridiculing this country club gone bad.

If the ACC were serious they would poach those in the SEC offices right now just like Georgia Tech did by snagging JBatt from Bama. But instead they follow up Swofford with Phillips who came from a 1 team conference (maybe 2 if you buy Michigan these days). The sooner this thing dies the sooner Georgia Tech can take care of Georgia Tech. Sure, it is a scary time but so what. The best time to leave an abusive relationship is the first chance you get. I understand that time may not be right now but that doesn’t mean FSU, Clemson, or any other team should be muzzled.

You make a lot of good points. Our relationship with the ACC seemed to deteriorate after Bobby Cremins and Homer Rice left the scene. They both came to Tech with an ACC background which may have helped our position in the conference.

I have also made similar critical comments on this site concerning the ACC, particularly concerning the new scheduling format.

However, I most relate to your "Scary Times" comment. If the ACC implodes and GT cannot find a new and better home, a lot of Tech people will be devastated. Particularly old guys like me. We will find ourselves in G5 or out of business totally. I could never imagine GT being in that situation. I suppose we could try Independence again with Basketball and other sports in in the Big East?? So, as you say I hope Tech can take care of Tech if ACC disintegrates.

,As far as FSU goes, I still don't believe you make a campaign out of knocking the "Country Club" if you are ready to resign. Pay your final dues and hit the door. It only hurts the other members. We don't know that anyone will be able to leave the conference until near 2036. I personally don't believe the SEC will add them! They don't quality for B1G unless the B1G changes their requirements for AAU.

I believe we need to get our own house in order with much better Football which will also help the ACC perception. I count on Key. We have too many BAD teams in the ACC at the moment. With better ACC football, ESPN might consider a "look in" to adjust the Deal.

Otherwise, GT should proceed with caution and work behind the scenes to find the best option if the ACC disintegrates.

 

[slugboy]

Assuming we can preview X/Twitter/Xitter:

ESPN just fired the guy who managed CFB for the network. Seems like a negative indicator?



Meanwhile, Fox got the B1G to break up the P12 because they’re trying to keep Apple out of CFB (allegedly)???
(This is a weird allegation by WSU)

Pac-12 collapse: WSU’s Schulz suggests Fox’s strategy (to block Apple) fueled Big Ten’s raid of Washington, Oregon

The chair of the Pac-12 board suggested that keeping Apple out of college football could have been the reason Fox funded the Big Ten’s raid of Washington and Oregon.

www.mercurynews.com

 

[RonJohn]

Meanwhile, Fox got the B1G to break up the P12 because they’re trying to keep Apple out of CFB (allegedly)???
(This is a weird allegation by WSU)

Pac-12 collapse: WSU’s Schulz suggests Fox’s strategy (to block Apple) fueled Big Ten’s raid of Washington, Oregon

The chair of the Pac-12 board suggested that keeping Apple out of college football could have been the reason Fox funded the Big Ten’s raid of Washington and Oregon.

www.mercurynews.com

I didn't read the article, but wasn't Apple the only company that put a bid in to broadcast Pac12 games? If so, how is Fox keeping Apple out of CFB? Did Fox set the price point for Apple's bid? Was Fox in the room with the ADs/Administrators when they rejected the bid? If the Pac12 had accepted Apple's bid, then Apple would be in CFB for bargain pricing compared to Fox and ESPN.

 

[Oldgoldandwhite]

ESPN has fired some heavy hitters in the last few years. Wonder what’s going on behind the scenes.

 

[ChicagobasedJacket]

I don’t disagree but just because the ACC is lower than the BIG overall TODAY doesn’t mean anyone in the BIG outside of Ohio State is worth anything. That’s been proven time and time again when the SEC pounds the BIG. And to bring up simple facts since 2005 the ACC has 2 teams with legit Natties, the BIG has 1, and the SEC has 5. We should be bringing in execs from the SEC not the BIG. And just because FSU has had a hiccup since the Bowden/Fisher regimes doesn’t mean they’ll stay down, Their school and fans actually care so they’ll get back especially under NIL. All those old team in the BIG will continue to play the dwarf to OSU because those schools up north are simply not committed t9 winning like southern schools are. It’s just different priorities.

Access to talent kills the BIG schools outside of OSU and to some extent Michigan and Penn St. It’s hard to grow up in Georgia, Florida, Texas, and California and want to move to the Midwest for sports without being very well compensated.

 

[Techster]

You make a lot of good points. Our relationship with the ACC seemed to deteriorate after Bobby Cremins and Homer Rice left the scene. They both came to Tech with an ACC background which may have helped our position in the conference.

I have also made similar critical comments on this site concerning the ACC, particularly concerning the new scheduling format.

However, I most relate to your "Scary Times" comment. If the ACC implodes and GT cannot find a new and better home, a lot of Tech people will be devastated. Particularly old guys like me. We will find ourselves in G5 or out of business totally. I could never imagine GT being in that situation. I suppose we could try Independence again with Basketball and other sports in in the Big East?? So, as you say I hope Tech can take care of Tech if ACC disintegrates.

,As far as FSU goes, I still don't believe you make a campaign out of knocking the "Country Club" if you are ready to resign. Pay your final dues and hit the door. It only hurts the other members. We don't know that anyone will be able to leave the conference until near 2036. I personally don't believe the SEC will add them! They don't quality for B1G unless the B1G changes their requirements for AAU.

I believe we need to get our own house in order with much better Football which will also help the ACC perception. I count on Key. We have too many BAD teams in the ACC at the moment. With better ACC football, ESPN might consider a "look in" to adjust the Deal.

Otherwise, GT should proceed with caution and work behind the scenes to find the best option if the ACC disintegrates.

Atlanta is too valuable of a market for FOX or ESPN to let GT fall into the G5. I still suspect GT ends up in the B1G when it's all said in done (GT isn't a big "brand" but Atlanta is WAY too valuable of a market in the South and for B1G's plans, and the amount of B1G alums in the Georgia is too sizeable to ignore), but if the B1G does not take GT, I'm confident the Big 12 would walk over broken glass to get us to join them.

I think the SEC is a long shot, but Peterson did allude to the fact that the SEC did reach out to us in 2012...the same time the B1G came calling. Could have been a defensive play by the SEC to keep the B1G out.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Atlanta is too valuable of a market for FOX or ESPN to let GT fall into the G5.

uga owns the ATL market. Took us forever to get the Go DWAGS sign off the building looking into our stadium...