Conference Realignment

[WreckinGT]

Why throw facts into the mix?

Troll troll troll your boat.

 

[RonJohn]

This assumes that the absence of language in the bylaws guiding dissolution requires a revote and doesn't follow normal North Carolina state law on dissolution of non profits. There are plenty of legal discussions on this matter out there.

I wouldn't describe internet message board discussions among people who are not members of the bar as "legal" discussions.

 

[WreckinGT]

I wouldn't describe internet message board discussions among people who are not members of the bar as "legal" discussions.

Did you consult with some lawyers when you decided that the dissolution of the conference required an amendment to the bylaws?

 

[orientalnc]

OK, how about a source that proves you wrong?

https://virginiatech.sportswar.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/15/2022/08/2020-21-ACC-Manual-2020-9-17-2.pdf

The ACC bylaws require a 3/4 majority to make any changes to the bylaws. The bylaws have nothing in them about dissolving the conference.

Thanks for that link.

To be completely frank, nothing is going to happen toward disbanding the conference. While the media contract with ESPN is crazy in today's media environment, the conference is working very well for every member. There are fans that see what they perceive as greener grass just beyond the fence line, but the people who make those decisions have said nothing that could be construed as being in favor of disbanding. Nothing.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Troll troll troll your boat.

Ok. I'm not the one that keeps ignoring verifiable sources and actual facts to keep a theory of 8 teams going rogue alive. There is no way this will actually happen, and people have shown you why, yet you have somehow decided this is a hill to die on? Call me a troll if you will, but since you seem impervious to facts, I legitimately question why we should bother with them in this debate...

 

[RonJohn]

Did you consult with some lawyers when you decided that the dissolution of the conference required an amendment to the bylaws?

I read and posted a link to the bylaws. So far, you have not linked to anything. You have posted a lot of "fanboy" internet message board talking points. If you have a link to the North Carolina law about dissolution of non-profits, please post it so I can review it to see if it might be applicable. However, I am not going to be impressed, amused, nor intimidated by constant nonsensical posts of how you think things might should maybe be.

 

[WreckinGT]

I read and posted a link to the bylaws. So far, you have not linked to anything. You have posted a lot of "fanboy" internet message board talking points. If you have a link to the North Carolina law about dissolution of non-profits, please post it so I can review it to see if it might be applicable. However, I am not going to be impressed, amused, nor intimidated by constant nonsensical posts of how you think things might should maybe be.

God, this really got you riled up for some reason didn't it? Answer this. Why do North Carolina state laws on dissolution of non profit organizations not apply to the ACC, a North Carolina non profit organization that did not define any guidelines for dissolution?

 

[stech81]

The fact is we are not going to the SEC or the Big10 and if the conference did break up. I don't think that would be good for us in the long or short run.

 

[RonJohn]

This assumes that the absence of language in the bylaws guiding dissolution requires a revote and doesn't follow normal North Carolina state law on dissolution of non profits. There are plenty of legal discussions on this matter out there.

So, I looked up the North Carolina law on dissolution of non-profits. 55A-14-02 covers dissolution. IF the non-profit doesn't have a higher threshold for voting requirements, it requires: A) A vote by the board. B) A 2/3 majority of all members with voting authority. and C) Approval in writing by anyone who is required to approve dissolution.

https://www.ncleg.net/enactedlegislation/statutes/pdf/bychapter/chapter_55a.pdf

Once again the message board legal analysts seem to discuss what they want to be true instead of what actually is true.

 

[RonJohn]

God, this really got you riled up for some reason didn't it? Answer this. Why do North Carolina state laws on dissolution of non profit organizations not apply to the ACC, a North Carolina non profit organization that did not define any guidelines for dissolution?

Why should I answer that? I posted proof that even if that law does apply, it requires a 2/3 majority which for the ACC is greater than 8 members. There might could be some legal argument about whether dissolution is a change to the bylaws or not. However, even if dissolution doesn't affect the bylaws(which is hard to believe) it would still require 10 votes based on the law that you want to follow.

If you have a link to something that indicates a simple majority, then please post it. I have already posted links the ACC bylaws, and the NC law on non-profits. Neither of those support your position.

 

[WreckinGT]

So, I looked up the North Carolina law on dissolution of non-profits. 55A-14-02 covers dissolution. IF the non-profit doesn't have a higher threshold for voting requirements, it requires: A) A vote by the board. B) A 2/3 majority of all members with voting authority. and C) Approval in writing by anyone who is required to approve dissolution.

https://www.ncleg.net/enactedlegislation/statutes/pdf/bychapter/chapter_55a.pdf

Once again the message board legal analysts seem to discuss what they want to be true instead of what actually is true.

If you are going to post it then post the whole thing, not just want you want to be true.

§ 55A-14-02. Dissolution by directors, members, and third persons.
(a) Unless this Chapter, the articles of incorporation, bylaws, or the board of directors or
members (acting pursuant to subsection (c) of this section) require a greater vote or voting by class,
dissolution is authorized if a plan of dissolution meeting the requirements of G.S. 55A-14-03 is
approved:
(1) By the board;
(2) By the members entitled to vote thereon, if any, by two-thirds of the votes cast
or a majority of the votes entitled to be cast on the plan of dissolution, whichever
is less; and
(3) In writing by any person or persons whose approval is required by a provision of the articles of incorporation authorized by G.S. 55A-10-30 for an amendment to the articles of incorporation or bylaws.

 

[cpf2001]

Thanks for that link.

To be completely frank, nothing is going to happen toward disbanding the conference. While the media contract with ESPN is crazy in today's media environment, the conference is working very well for every member. There are fans that see what they perceive as greener grass just beyond the fence line, but the people who make those decisions have said nothing that could be construed as being in favor of disbanding. Nothing.

Sadly I think “the entire ACC gets left behind for football and eventually everything else” is more likely than anything more dramatic, but… 14 years is a long time, if anyone gets desperate things seem like they could get real fun to watch. Or maybe by 2030 everyone just recognizes it’s a suicide pact, ESPN included, and goes back to the table.

I’d put money on the idea that the status quo - with both an undefeated or one loss ACC champ probably having a seat at the table, and the contract never getting changed in any way - will change by 2036, though. Either something big happens or everyone just fades away.

 

[RonJohn]

If you are going to post it then post the whole thing, not just want you want to be true.

What is different about what I said and what the law says? A) by the board B) 2/3 majority of the members and C) In writing by anyone who is required to approve. That is what I said, and that is what the law says.

You have no idea what I "want" to be true. Unlike someone in this conversation, I am finding facts and posting them. I am not simply saying what I wish those facts were.

 

[forensicbuzz]

What makes you believe 8 teams can dissolve the conference?

The GOR language says that the GOR can only be modified or dissolved if every current member agrees to dissolve it. Use GT just as an example. If every school but GT were to leave the ACC, Gt could invite 7 G5, or even 7 FCS schools to join the conference. Negotiate a limited payout to those schools ($20-30 million) and GT could make $400 million per year on the broadcast rights of the schools that left the ACC. Why would the remaining school(s) in the ACC agree to give up $600 million to $1 billion per year? There would not be enough incentive to appease the schools leaving to do that.

It would take a lot more than 8 schools deciding to leave to get rid of the GOR.

No. It does not take a unanimous vote to dissolve the conference. It might for the GOR, but not for dissolution. If the conference doesn't exist, then the GOR no longer exists. This is the nuclear option, but it's not an all or nothing. Very difficult thing to do, but it's not out of the realm of possibility and would absolutely end up in Court. It's all about Interested Parties and Disinterested Parties.

EDIT: The Bolded part is not true. If every school but GT were to leave, the ACC would be dissolved and there would no longer be a GOR. The only way what you say would work is if GT went to Court and got a ruling that all other schools were "interested parties" and GT would be the only school with a vote.

 

[RonJohn]

No. It does not take a unanimous vote to dissolve the conference. It might for the GOR, but not for dissolution. If the conference doesn't exist, then the GOR no longer exists. This is the nuclear option, but it's not an all or nothing. Very difficult thing to do, but it's not out of the realm of possibility and would absolutely end up in Court. It's all about Interested Parties and Disinterested Parties.

I never said it took unanimous vote to dissolve the conference.

 

[forensicbuzz]

He isn't reading it anywhere. It takes an absolute majority of 3/4 of the directors to suspend or expel a program but a simple majority to dissolve? ok...

Pretty sure it takes a Supermajority to dissolve the conference. But, that's a supermajority of "disinterested parties," which is a real grey area.

 

[forensicbuzz]

I never said it took unanimous vote to dissolve the conference.

Agreed. But you can get out of the GOR without unanimous agreement. That was my point. VERY hard, but not impossible.

 

[forensicbuzz]

I never said it took unanimous vote to dissolve the conference.

Added more to my original post to qualify what I was saying "no" to.

 

[RonJohn]

Pretty sure it takes a Supermajority to dissolve the conference. But, that's a supermajority of "disinterested parties," which is a real grey area.

In the bylaws 1.5.1.3 withdrawing and/or expelled members are automatically removed from boards and lose their ability to vote. I didn't see anything that indicates that schools that want to leave, but haven't withdrawn are labeled as disinterested parties and lose their vote.

 

[orientalnc]

NC law requiring non-profits to meet obligations might make dissolution difficult even if a majority wanted it. I am sure ESPN would not simply stand aside.