Conference Realignment

CEB

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,613
Thwg777 said:
CEB and bobongo, thanks for the input. I did not realize how good it was back when it was signed. It sounds more like the second guessing on my behalf was the length of the contract compared to how dynamic things will be over that 20+ years (seems like an eternity).

By one-sided, I meant in favor of the conference - not any specific team.

This stuff makes my head hurt. I'll go back to my regularly scheduled programming of drinking my whiskey clear and following football game by game. There's so much I don't understand of the bigger picture landscape. I've always thought players should be able to enter the NFL draft whenever they damn well feel ready provided they're old enough to enter the military draft. You don't need college to take arms but must have it to play a sport! And that would likely add more parity to the game. But I digress...
Click to expand...
I’m with you! Looking forward to enjoying the sports side of it again... I pay very little attention to garbage like this when teams are fun and exciting to watch. “Ws” usually make me worry less about all of those other initials like GOR and NIL and such....
 

CEB

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,613
WreckinGT said:
Other conferences other than the SEC have a GOR as well. They really aren't that bad, and can help with short term stability. The real problem we have is that we signed one for a ridiculous length. Having the GOR go until 2036 and signing a media deal for the same length was a really dumb decision.
Click to expand...
That’s right... I think we seriously underestimated the future value of media. I would suspect that our deal is undervalued today, and in the next 3-5 years will be dramatically undervalued. It’s not worth BIG or SEC money, but it’s worth more than we’re getting. The long term deal was a bad idea... but at the time, we thought we had arrived!
 
iceeater1969

iceeater1969

Helluva Engineer
Messages
9,668
Thwg777 said:
I’ve got a basic question if someone doesn’t mind educating me. I’ve read some but not 67 pages.

I make out that the ACC Grant of Rights is one-sided and generally awful to the schools based on the long timeframe of contract, lack of exit clauses, continuing irrelevance of ACC, and continuing financial inequality compared to other conferences. Basically we’re all tethered to a sinking ship.

So my potentially loaded question is why did the schools agree of these terms?
Click to expand...
Approx
The SEC struck first and went with ESPN at SEC Network.
By the time the ACC deal came down for ACCN the Sec schools had received about billions. They were pulling away at warp speed
ACC took what we could get BUT HAD TO TAKE LONG TERM DEAL -2035
The money comes from the market. Note the tv deals surely require that we put a good product on the field w cheering fans in the stands = advertisable rates for alabama verses anyone as compared to gt verses vt).
AT SOME POINT WHEN TV WANTS OUT OF THEY WILL SAY SCHOOLS LIKE GT, ETC HAVE NOT DONE THEIR PART - FAILURE TO PERFORM.

For a brief period after signing ,acc members were receiving almost as much tv $ as SEC , then SEC and then SEC ESPN renegotiated and got Way more money.
Now SEC is again pulling away from ACC.

Our old Prez was too busy to notice.

Our new Prez sees under his watch that gt could end as a party being sued for Failure to Perform
(U CAN these $ on Knight Data base for NCAA finance).
In summary - a ticket to the recent ala ga game cost twice as much as gt season tickets .
 

RamblinRed

Helluva Engineer
Featured Member
Messages
5,863
Media companies have no say in the GOR's. The GOR's are between the schools and the conference (and by extension all the other conference schools).
They basically say if program wants to leave, the rights (and therefore the money) for their media revert to the conference (and its remaining schools).
So basically, say Clemson wanted to leave the conference, they are free to pay the exit fee (which is 3X the operating revenue of of the conference - currently about $105MM) and could join whatever conference they want. But, they (and the new conference) lose any rights to their media (and therefore that money) until the end of the GOR. So that would mean through 2036, any game Clemson played, the money from the TV contract would go to the ACC (and its remaining schools). Clemson and its new conference home would get $0.

Also, if the ACC GOR is like the B12 GOR (which is highly likely) there is also a piece that any program that wants to leave the conference becomes what is known as an 'interested party' and loses their voting rights on any conference decisions (such as a dissolution vote). So you can't just try to break out of the GOR by simply getting a bunch of programs to try and leave. All those programs would lose their voting rights and the ones who did not break away would be the only ones who would get to vote.

GOR's were largely created for stabilization reasons and have been quite successful in that regard. No program has attempted to leave a P5 conference for another P5 conference until their GOR expired.

ESPN has no reason to see the ACC raided and fall apart, and frankly has multiple reasons for it to stay together. The ACC provides ESPN with more content than any other conference. With ESPN losing its share of the B10 rights, it now has more programming space to fill. not less. Also, ACC Content is cheaper than SEC Content for them, so why would they want a program to go from the ACC to the SEC. That is a negative for ESPN. ACC is also an in to programming with ND, which is beneficial to ESPN.
 
iceeater1969

iceeater1969

Helluva Engineer
Messages
9,668
RamblinRed said:
Media companies have no say in the GOR's. The GOR's are between the schools and the conference (and by extension all the other conference schools).
They basically say if program wants to leave, the rights (and therefore the money) for their media revert to the conference (and its remaining schools).
So basically, say Clemson wanted to leave the conference, they are free to pay the exit fee (which is 3X the operating revenue of of the conference - currently about $105MM) and could join whatever conference they want. But, they (and the new conference) lose any rights to their media (and therefore that money) until the end of the GOR. So that would mean through 2036, any game Clemson played, the money from the TV contract would go to the ACC (and its remaining schools). Clemson and its new conference home would get $0.

Also, if the ACC GOR is like the B12 GOR (which is highly likely) there is also a piece that any program that wants to leave the conference becomes what is known as an 'interested party' and loses their voting rights on any conference decisions (such as a dissolution vote). So you can't just try to break out of the GOR by simply getting a bunch of programs to try and leave. All those programs would lose their voting rights and the ones who did not break away would be the only ones who would get to vote.

GOR's were largely created for stabilization reasons and have been quite successful in that regard. No program has attempted to leave a P5 conference for another P5 conference until their GOR expired.

ESPN has no reason to see the ACC raided and fall apart, and frankly has multiple reasons for it to stay together. The ACC provides ESPN with more content than any other conference. With ESPN losing its share of the B10 rights, it now has more programming space to fill. not less. Also, ACC Content is cheaper than SEC Content for them, so why would they want a program to go from the ACC to the SEC. That is a negative for ESPN. ACC is also an in to programming with ND, which is beneficial to ESPN.
Click to expand...
Your opinion is duly noted

Not sure why you think the gor amongst the acc members will stop the tv folks from claiming breach for failure to provide a contracted product. Once they claim breach - the courts will get involved - then negotiations will begin to reach a resolution.

They( espn, fox, streaming) will do this so they get big piece of the market for $$$$ellable nation wide brand games.

Imo, the next reset will have a. good teams ( unc, okla st) that are almost always fun to watch =$$$$
and
b. teams that are sometimes good ( hopefully not gt)=$

We dont want to be on raycom.
 

SOWEGA Jacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,075
RamblinRed said:
I think the next major round of realignment will come at the end of the decade. B10 has already said it is going to need the next few years to injest USC and UCLA.
B10's contracts are up at the end of the decade. So a year or two before that is when they will want to make moves.

The expanded playoff will actually do more to keep conferences together than tear them apart, at least in the short term.
With the expanded playoffs having auto bids for the 6 highest ranked conference teams, if you are a top team not in the SEC/B10 you actually have a better path to the playoffs by staying than leaving.
Click to expand...
It could be. But it could also lead to variables we can’t see today. That’s always the issue. Things done today that look smart often look dumb down the road. We’ve just experienced that over the past 4 years. For instance, for a school like Clemson what does making the playoff do if they are tens of millions behind the SEC/BIG which causes them to get curb stomped in those playoffs (think Notre Dame every time they get in) especially when they have to share equally? The ACC and now Clemson are really starting to see what happens when all the top players go to only 2 conferences. Clemson is waaaaay down in talent from a few years ago. That’s is not a mistake. The ACC, Clemson, and FSU are no longer a destination for top end players. Clemson will get spanked in this years playoff. It’s all about money and the studs are going to the SEC or Ohio State with a few exceptions.
 

WreckinGT

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,159
SOWEGA Jacket said:
It could be. But it could also lead to variables we can’t see today. That’s always the issue. Things done today that look smart often look dumb down the road. We’ve just experienced that over the past 4 years. For instance, for a school like Clemson what does making the playoff do if they are tens of millions behind the SEC/BIG which causes them to get curb stomped in those playoffs (think Notre Dame every time they get in) especially when they have to share equally? The ACC and now Clemson are really starting to see what happens when all the top players go to only 2 conferences. Clemson is waaaaay down in talent from a few years ago. That’s is not a mistake. The ACC, Clemson, and FSU are no longer a destination for top end players. Clemson will get spanked in this years playoff. It’s all about money and the studs are going to the SEC or Ohio State with a few exceptions.
Click to expand...
The top end players will go where the money is. There is a reason Miami is a really mediocre football program yet has 3 five star players committed for 2023 already with another one likely coming. If Clemson wants the really top end guys then they will have to step up their NIL game.
 

SOWEGA Jacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,075
WreckinGT said:
The top end players will go where the money is. There is a reason Miami is a really mediocre football program yet has 3 five star players committed for 2023 already with another one likely coming. If Clemson wants the really top end guys then they will have to step up their NIL game.
Click to expand...
Get back to me when they finally sign. Commitments mean nothing these days. When the SEC puts on the press they’ll flip. And if they do stick they’ll portal out after losing and being made fun of for playing in the ACC.
 

WreckinGT

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,159
SOWEGA Jacket said:
Get back to me when they finally sign. Commitments mean nothing these days. When the SEC puts on the press they’ll flip. And if they do stick they’ll portal out after losing and being made fun of for playing in the ACC.
Click to expand...
Texas A&M signed 6 five stars last year and have 3 more committed this year. You think that is just because they are in the SEC?
 

gameface

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
325
iceeater1969 said:
Your opinion is duly noted

Not sure why you think the gor amongst the acc members will stop the tv folks from claiming breach for failure to provide a contracted product. Once they claim breach - the courts will get involved - then negotiations will begin to reach a resolution.

They( espn, fox, streaming) will do this so they get big piece of the market for $$$$ellable nation wide brand games.

Imo, the next reset will have a. good teams ( unc, okla st) that are almost always fun to watch =$$$$
and
b. teams that are sometimes good ( hopefully not gt)=$

We dont want to be on raycom.
Click to expand...
In the scenerio you describe; who is failing to deliver a contracted product?
 

SOWEGA Jacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,075
WreckinGT said:
Texas A&M signed 6 five stars last year and have 3 more committed this year. You think that is just because they are in the SEC?
Click to expand...
They have more money for many reasons, one of which is because they are in the SEC who makes much better monetary business decisions than the idiots who have run and currently run the ACC. Listen, the simple fact is the on field results say it all. The ACC and it’s teams including its top team (Clemson) are falling fast. The point was it was posted that why would Clemson want to leave when they have a free path to the playoffs. That’s true that their path is way easier in the ACC. But when they get there they will be smoked as their talent level has fallen big time because big time recruits aren’t joining the ACC outside of the few exceptions. Clemson is still riding off their 2 Nattys. But when they keep getting beat in the playoffs their reputation will tank just like has happened to Notre Dame. Everyone knows even if ND goes 11-1 and gets in the playoffs they will lose. That has been proved. Heck, they have fallen so far they have no hope for a playoff bid any time in the near future. That will be Clemson now. They’ll probably win the ACC for the next 4-5 years and they’ll get smoked in the playoffs. Shipley is no where near as good as their previous RB’s, their QB is not NFL quality and their DLine outside of Bresee has little talent. The GOR will continue to keep Clemson and FSU down because they play in a junior high school league. You’ll see when teams start pulling out. Clemson would be much better off leaving, joining the SEC, and then rebuilding their talent level so when they do get in the expanded playoffs down the road they have a chance to win it. This year they will get smoked by UGA, Bama, or Ohio State.
 
Top