Conference Realignment

g0lftime

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I have a question about Notre Dame and the B1G. I've seen it said many times that Notre Dame doesn't feel it's a good fit with the B1G. I'm not doubting they feel that way, but does anyone know exactly why? The B1G is a good academic conference and ND is a good school. ND is in their footprint. So why do they think they're not a good fit with the B1G?
There is still some bad blood that goes back when the B10 was formed from the western conference and they were blackballed by Michigan and then the B10 would not play them. ND also sees themselves as a national brand and not just Midwest. They also didn't want to be obligated to play 8 or more conference games so they could play a more national schedule with their own network deal on NBC. HOWEVER these times are achanging.
 

WreckinGT

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I have a question about Notre Dame and the B1G. I've seen it said many times that Notre Dame doesn't feel it's a good fit with the B1G. I'm not doubting they feel that way, but does anyone know exactly why? The B1G is a good academic conference and ND is a good school. ND is in their footprint. So why do they think they're not a good fit with the B1G?
There is a good bit of bad history between the Big 10 and Notre Dame. https://www.si.com/college/notredam...ependence-mutual-respect-to-mutual-resentment. This was many years ago though. These days I think Notre Dame really just wants to stay independent. Its part of their identity and it seems to be more important than money.
 

GTHomer

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Augusta_Jacket

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Thanks for sharing the link! It provides as interesting background. I wonder how long this grudge will be held?

the sandlot GIF
 

billga99

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You may be right IF:
ACC programs were making $20m / year
and
SEC / BIG Programs were making $100m / year.

You’re off by nearly a factor of two in both cases.
There is no doubt a disparity but it’s nowhere near the disparity you’re spinning.
Here is the bigger issue. Let's just pick a number for arguments sake. Let's say the SEC and Big 10 are 80MM per year per team. Unless adding teams is going to generate more than 80MM for all the teams in the Big 2, why do they want to add? Let's take the ACC. Does Clemson additively give each team in the SEC more than the 80MM per year they are already receiving? Same with FSU. In both cases, there are already SEC schools in both states. Adding teams which dilute the payoffs since there will be more teams is going to require bumps in overall payouts. A major market like LA probably does that. Most ACC markets don't. Maybe a Bay Area maybe since neither of the Big 2 are there currently.
 

SOWEGA Jacket

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I'm betting we won't see much if any movement of current teams away from the ACC for at least 10 years. What's going on now is a bunch of rabid fans projecting opinion into a process that's a lot more cut and dry than many would like to believe.
I generally agree with you but this statement I outlined above doesn’t jive with what has been happening. Sure, fans are discussing this stuff now but it will die down once camp starts. Think about how the OU, Texas, USC, UCLA moves were made - all in silence. That’s how it will happen. I agree we are done for now but another wave will come in the next few years. I give 4-5 years until the ACC loses teams.
 

CEB

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Here is the bigger issue. Let's just pick a number for arguments sake. Let's say the SEC and Big 10 are 80MM per year per team. Unless adding teams is going to generate more than 80MM for all the teams in the Big 2, why do they want to add? Let's take the ACC. Does Clemson additively give each team in the SEC more than the 80MM per year they are already receiving? Same with FSU. In both cases, there are already SEC schools in both states. Adding teams which dilute the payoffs since there will be more teams is going to require bumps in overall payouts. A major market like LA probably does that. Most ACC markets don't. Maybe a Bay Area maybe since neither of the Big 2 are there currently.
You’re absolutely right... there is most definitely a point of diminishing return. At some point there are no teams left that move the needle. And it’s not just $80M in your arbitrary example... it’s $80M plus what ever increment per existing team to bring them up to $80M also.
Honestly, I don’t see it, but the two major conferences see value differently... BIG is chasing markets / locations. They have glaring holes in several top ten markets; Dallas, San Fran, Atlanta...
SEC is chasing big brands / fans... not sure how they value or evaluate those, but in either case, the benefits associated with each team are going to have to be much much larger than the benefits of the teams that came before. When you think of it that way; does any combination of two teams offer bigger, better branding than OK / TX? Does any combination of teams deliver a new market bigger than Los Angeles?
I guess we will find out... but I also guess that we won’t find out for another 8-10 years, maybe more.
 

takethepoints

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There is a good bit of bad history between the Big 10 and Notre Dame. https://www.si.com/college/notredam...ependence-mutual-respect-to-mutual-resentment. This was many years ago though. These days I think Notre Dame really just wants to stay independent. Its part of their identity and it seems to be more important than money.
Tech hasn't played Bama since the mid-60s. Some bad blood lasts a very, very long time.

Personally, I hate Bama more then any other football team including the Dwags.
 

CEB

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I generally agree with you but this statement I outlined above doesn’t jive with what has been happening. Sure, fans are discussing this stuff now but it will die down once camp starts. Think about how the OU, Texas, USC, UCLA moves were made - all in silence. That’s how it will happen. I agree we are done for now but another wave will come in the next few years. I give 4-5 years until the ACC loses teams.
It also happens slowly and in very small groups. Even though it feels like nonstop conference realignment chaos, it will be over a decade between addition of members to the BIG and the SEC and those additions weren’t coming four or five at a time. I think we’re done for the moment. 2030+ before this chaos resurfaces in the two major conferences again.
 

bobongo

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Tech hasn't played Bama since the mid-60s. Some bad blood lasts a very, very long time.

Personally, I hate Bama more then any other football team including the Dwags.
Well, the series resumed for a while from '79 to the mid '80's. And the last time the Jackets played them, it was 16-6, good guys:

 

Beeski

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BE is sort of a special case. It was a basketball conference that tried to add football and eventually was raided. Then it went back to its roots to be a basketball conference.
Pretty much all the football schools in the BE ended up in a P5 conference.

My take on expansion is pretty straight forward. There is going to be a Big 2 (for reasons previously discussed) and no other conferences no matter that they do will make it a Big three. Most of the schools outside the Big 2 lack either the location or the fanbase to end up in the big 2.

I think we are headed to three tiers of roughly similar numbers of programs. I think GT has a chance (albeit not a good one) to end up in the B10 in tier 1. I feel it is much more likely that GT ends up staying in the ACC and being a Tier 2 team. Whether GT wants to be in Tier 1 is almost immaterial. It is whether the current Tier 1 conferences want GT in their conference and the likely answer is no (certainly a no for the SEC).

As a poster above said, teams may want to leave the ACC/PAC/B12, but someone has to want them enough to leave and for the vast majority of programs in those 3 conference the simple truth is that the Big 2 don't desire them.

I'm still of the opinion there may be no more than 4 more programs that get poached into the Big 2. I don't really see it being in their interest to add much more than that. I don't think the ACC will be the same in 2o36 as today but I don't think it will be hugely different either.

I'm just not willing to be stressed about where GT football ends up. In 15 years it will still be playing football. Maybe in tier 1, probably in tier 2. Even if it is in tier 2 most of its games will be against the same teams it has been playing on the field for the last 40 years.

As a WI native I would be fine with GT in the B10 as I grew up as a young boy with alot of those teams. If GT is to ultimately get a bid to the B10 it will be based pretty much entirely on the market GT is in allowing the B10 to charge more for the B10 Network in the Atlanta market and its academic research reputation and what that would add to the B10 Consortium. The actual football program would have almost nothing to do with why it is chosen. If it is only a football decision GT will be in tier 2 as that is what it is from a football standpoint - in terms of fanbase size (bottom quintile of P5 schools), undergraduate enrollment (bottom quintile of P5 schools), and athletic budget (9th in ACC and 48th nationally in spending on football).
GT / GTRI is #2 in Total Engineering Research, only behind Johns Hopkins
 

forensicbuzz

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Here is the bigger issue. Let's just pick a number for arguments sake. Let's say the SEC and Big 10 are 80MM per year per team. Unless adding teams is going to generate more than 80MM for all the teams in the Big 2, why do they want to add? Let's take the ACC. Does Clemson additively give each team in the SEC more than the 80MM per year they are already receiving? Same with FSU. In both cases, there are already SEC schools in both states. Adding teams which dilute the payoffs since there will be more teams is going to require bumps in overall payouts. A major market like LA probably does that. Most ACC markets don't. Maybe a Bay Area maybe since neither of the Big 2 are there currently.
It's simple. Not all moves are made for money right now, that's checkers. These guys are playing chess. they're looking 3 or 4 moves down the road. There are many reasons to bring in a school that doesn't immediately affect the bottom line.
 

Augusta_Jacket

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I generally agree with you but this statement I outlined above doesn’t jive with what has been happening. Sure, fans are discussing this stuff now but it will die down once camp starts. Think about how the OU, Texas, USC, UCLA moves were made - all in silence. That’s how it will happen. I agree we are done for now but another wave will come in the next few years. I give 4-5 years until the ACC loses teams.

Take the bolded above, and add this: two years before their conference TV deals ran out...
 

SOWEGA Jacket

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Take the bolded above, and add this: two years before their conference TV deals ran out...
Agreed. But if you think everyone is just going to wait 15 years you are crazy. The money is too enormous to wait. Both in season games and an expanded playoffs are worth billions and the power brokers know it. I don’t know the how’s or when’s but I also have watched enough history to know how it plays out. It’s no different than when guys like me were told over and over again that the bowl system would never allow a playoff. Today people laugh at the stupidity of bowls and their attendance is garbage as are the ratings (with a few exceptions of the big names who get left). Now, the playoff games are the exact opposite and can’t sell enough tickets. Just remember guys like me when in some random day in a random April or May when the next shoe drops.
 

Oldgoldandwhite

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Reports that Phil Kinght is calling conferences trying to find a place for Oregon. Do we answer that call and negotiate a price that Nike must pay and welcome Oregon and Oregon St to the Atlantic Coast?
I would take those two. Then add Stanford, Washington, and one other. That would help their travel in other sports.
3x5x5x5.
 

Techster

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Really interesting post from a Michigan Blogger from almost 10 years ago. Makes an interesting case about the academic side of expansion...and you can see why GT is a high value target from that POV in addition to our TV market and B1G alumni base:

 

bobongo

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Really interesting post from a Michigan Blogger from almost 10 years ago. Makes an interesting case about the academic side of expansion...and you can see why GT is a high value target from that POV in addition to our TV market and B1G alumni base:

I still don't get how which athletic conference a school is in has any effect on how many research dollars it gets. Lots of conflating the CIC with the B1G. The CIC has influence. The AAU has influence. Most B1G schools are AAU and CIC. So? Where's the connection to the B1G? Bringing an AAU and CIC school into the conference increases the research dollars of the other schools in the conference? How? This article doesn't make that clear to me. Maybe I'm missing something. Does the University of Chicago get less research money because it isn't in the B1G? ???
 
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