Conference Realignment

[Vespidae]

I had two brothers who played football at Auburn along with a few high school teammates; so I can tell you alot.

Nope; he was not; had no reason to.

Well, I know the process and it is VERY difficult to arbitrarily hand out faculty raises. Most raises are simply due to a change in status from one instructor classification to another ... which is all automatic and has zero to do with athletic performance. It's easy enough to check. I'm in the office tomorrow and will ask Payroll.

 

[GoldZ]

This is where we simply disagree. Some posters act as if athletes are the only students on campus with “extra” demands on them. That is ridiculous. You act as if the regular students go to class a few hours a day and then sleep and watch TV all day. Most students work, have family obligations, etc, etc. Athletes are the most pampered students on campus. They don’t have to worry about food, have academic assistance at their need, etc. I’m not saying athletes don’t put in hours of work for their sport, I’m simply saying all GT students put in hours of work. Recently, I knew a kid who was a GT baseball player from my area. This kid had the right view. Sure, he told me about the early hours to work out, then class, breakfast, afternoon workouts, evening study sessions, etc. But he also told me how his regular student roommate woke up earlier than him to go to his first part time job so he could help pay his way in between classes and then did a second part time job in the evening. The baseball player knew he had it much easier.

As a dirt poor Co-op student, I can tell you a great deal about "work". I also knew a lot of football players at Tech and their rigorous schedules were nothing like a regular student. Do you even remember what it was like on Saturday mornings after playing even high school football Friday night? I did good just walking to the breakfast table. They have a regimented schedule beyond what you might think. Ask some of them.

 

[Randy Carson]

Does it matter (to you) how many schools are in each conference?

Silly me...I always thought 2 to the x made sense come tournament time and that 16 teams was about right because each team could play every other team in its division as well as a few non-conference games and maybe one cross division game (maybe).* The two division winners would get a bonus game by playing in the league championship game.

Nationally, two 16-team superconferences sounds right to me. The four division winners make the playoffs for the REAL national championship. Are there REALLY more than 32 teams with genuine national championship aspirations?

All the other schools who don't make the cut, can do the same in their respective conferences. This creates multiple national champions (think heavyweight, middleweight, lightweight, flyweight, etc.) and lots of TV revenue. Trophies for everyone who participates, etc.

I'd also reset the divisions every 4-5 years to avoid having the two best schools in the same division for an extended period of time. Permanent rivals? lolololol Your permanent rivals would be the rest of the conference. DUH!

*Alternatively, each conference could have two divisions of nine schools each. In this conference, each school would play eight division games and four non-conference games for a total of 12 regular season games. Non-conference games could be up or down a weight class as each school sees fit. Top Two (10 oz. cheese it!) schools would play for the Conference Championship.

[Note the Junior's reference for the benefit of the old timers on the forum.]

PS - According to the Mighty Google, there are 130 schools playing D1 football today. Let's see...32 x 4 = 128...yep, that would make four D1 conferences divided by weight class and four national championships decided every year. And it just occurred to me that while the heavyweight bouts usually get the most eyeballs, no one would miss a Leonard-Duran fight back in the day.

 

[RonJohn]

Well, I know the process and it is VERY difficult to arbitrarily hand out faculty raises. Most raises are simply due to a change in status from one instructor classification to another ... which is all automatic and has zero to do with athletic performance. It's easy enough to check. I'm in the office tomorrow and will ask Payroll.

Why should we believe someone who has first hand knowledge, when we can rely on anonymous internet statements from someone with "two friends who ......"?

 

[Vespidae]

As a dirt poor Co-op student, I can tell you a great deal about "work". I also knew a lot of football players at Tech and their rigorous schedules were nothing like a regular student. Do you even remember what it was like on Saturday mornings after playing even high school football Friday night? I did good just walking to the breakfast table. They have a regimented schedule beyond what you might think. Ask some of them.

My best students are the athletes. Why? First, every student is required to bring their phone to class and on each phone is a tracking app. The classrooms are enabled to track the attendance of each athlete in real time. The Athletic Dept knows where every athlete is during class hours and there's no hiding ditching. As a result, they have perfect, or very close to perfect attendance.

Performance is tracked as well. Every few weeks, I get an Athletic Dept request ... How is X doing? Current grade? Likely grade? Major issues needing to be addressed? In turn, the athletic advisors sit with each review their grade outlook. I've never had an athlete in any class get less than a B. There's just too much oversight.

+1 on the days being planned. I would not describe them as pampered. I find their workloads and athletic requirements to be ... very demanding.

 

[RonJohn]

It's not semantics RJ and your comment about him spending a 100% of his time on athletics is patently absurd. No I didn't say or actually believe such nonsense. When a leader of an organization doesn't communicate his position on an important topic, the void will be filled with things he doesn't believe. Now, you tell me and everyone else....what is his position on Tech football and the sport in general, since both are undergoing a generational change. What, you can't? Exactly

The president of the university has things much more important to deal with than athletics. Fans are consumed with athletics and believe that universities exist only to provide entertainment on Saturday afternoons. The president manages the entire university. The AD is responsible for managing athletics. The public face of a university's athletics should be the athletic director.

 

[RonJohn]

As a dirt poor Co-op student, I can tell you a great deal about "work". I also knew a lot of football players at Tech and their rigorous schedules were nothing like a regular student. Do you even remember what it was like on Saturday mornings after playing even high school football Friday night? I did good just walking to the breakfast table. They have a regimented schedule beyond what you might think. Ask some of them.

I was in Woodruff one suite beside basketball players twice while in school, during the same time frame as @SOWEGA Jacket. Most of the time, those guys: Were up and gone before I woke up, had workouts, then class, then practice, then mandatory study session, then finally made it back to the dorms at around 9:00pm. Most of the athletes would probably not get into GT if it wasn't for athletics, but arguing that they do nothing and just have everything handed to them sounds more like envy than an actual assessment of what they do: physically, athletically, and even academically.

 

[Randy Carson]

I was in Woodruff one suite beside basketball players twice while in school, during the same time frame as @SOWEGA Jacket. Most of the time, those guys: Were up and gone before I woke up, had workouts, then class, then practice, then mandatory study session, then finally made it back to the dorms at around 9:00pm. Most of the athletes would probably not get into GT if it wasn't for athletics, but arguing that they do nothing and just have everything handed to them sounds more like envy than an actual assessment of what they do: physically, athletically, and even academically.

I think it depends on the definition of the phrase, "everything handed to them."

When I was a student, I had to choose whether I was going to eat at Junior's, make a V run, or cook some Kraft Macaroni & Cheese on the stove down the hall (because Techwood didn't have suites with kitchens). If I wanted to work out, I had to walk across campus or catch a Stinger to SAC...and there was no personal trainer waiting for me when I got there. When it came time to study, I had to review the material on my own with no GTAA tutor to explain what the professor was talking about - as many times as it took before I got it.

So, I was pretty much on my own to sink or swim - in Drownproofing in the Naval Armory, in class or in life. No, there weren't as many demands on my "free" time, but I didn't have anyone providing a safety net, either.

There were and are trade-offs to both of these college experiences.

 

[RonJohn]

I think it depends on the definition of the phrase, "everything handed to them."

When I was a student, I had to choose whether I was going to eat at Junior's, make a V run, or cook some Kraft Macaroni & Cheese on the stove down the hall (because Techwood didn't have suites with kitchens). If I wanted to work out, I had to walk across campus or catch a Stinger to SAC...and there was no personal trainer waiting for me when I got there. When it came time to study, I had to review the material on my own with no GTAA tutor to explain what the professor was talking about - as many times as it took before I got it.

So, I was pretty much on my own to sink or swim - in Drownproofing in the Naval Armory, in class or in life. No, there weren't as many demands on my "free" time, but I didn't have anyone providing a safety net, either.

There were and are trade-offs to both of these college experiences.

I don't disagree with that. I would have enjoyed access to free food and the tutoring sessions. However, I would not have enjoyed the daily rigor. I think I would rather have done it the way I did, as you said with no safety net. I was able to do what I wanted to, when I wanted to. It was 100% my responsibility to go to class, do my assignments, and study. It was 100% my responsibility to ensure my food money lasted. It was 100% my responsibility to make sure I could pay tuition. However, I could go where I wanted to, when I wanted to, and do whatever I wanted to do.

 

[slugboy]

It's not semantics RJ and your comment about him spending a 100% of his time on athletics is patently absurd. No I didn't say or actually believe such nonsense. When a leader of an organization doesn't communicate his position on an important topic, the void will be filled with things he doesn't believe. Now, you tell me and everyone else....what is his position on Tech football and the sport in general, since both are undergoing a generational change. What, you can't? Exactly

Cabrera has been photographed at games. He was at last season’s GT-UGA game and was described as being livid about the sea of red in the local paper. He’s blogged and tweeted about GT sports and related items.



He has toured the state talking to students and alumni.



When there is good news about our sports — as there has been in our Women’s sports lately — he’s talked about it. There was also some background chatter that he’s taken notice of the huge outstanding debt our AA has and has people thinking of ways to solve it. I see him being engaged in that part of our environment.

He might even answer your questions about it if you ask him.

However, he’s probably more interested in bigger trends. Schools like GT are doing well. Many colleges and universities aren’t. State funding support for public universities has been diminishing over time—they’re more and more responsible for being self-funding. As much as their are big changes occurring for sports, the seas for colleges and universities are turbulent, too. Colleges and universities may be splitting into “winners” and “losers” as much as NCAA football teams are.

Like the CEO of a public company, his stakeholders judge him by how the Institute overall is doing, and how much he keeps his eyes on the tiller of the overall institution.

+++++++++++++
As for the trends for college football, right now it’s trending into tiers. FOX and ESPN and other content providers find it harder and harder to get a large share of eyeballs. They’re bidding for the most lucrative products right now. The demographics for pro and college football has a lot of older fans with money, but I think the demographics are graying. The ratings aren’t going up in the way that they used to. The middle market is getting split among more teams.

TL;DR: ESPN and FOX are paying more for fewer, higher viewership teams. Ratings aren’t really going up, and in a lot of ways seem to be eroding, attendance is suffering, and my kids wonder why we have televisions. I’m not sure the upcoming generations will care nearly as much about football as we have.

When something can’t continue, it eventually doesn’t. Either the viewership is going to have to increase or the payouts are going to decrease. There’s a shakeout going on right now, but it’s also possible that there’s an economic bubble for sports programming (and content programming of all sorts).

Some of us are debating about the ACC surviving until 2036. Is ESPN still around in 14 years, though?

 

[iopjacket]

As a dirt poor Co-op student, I can tell you a great deal about "work". I also knew a lot of football players at Tech and their rigorous schedules were nothing like a regular student. Do you even remember what it was like on Saturday mornings after playing even high school football Friday night? I did good just walking to the breakfast table. They have a regimented schedule beyond what you might think. Ask some of them.

I was also a dirt poor Co-op student. I loved it. Work 3 months and went to school 3 months. Paid my way thru GT. Schools fees were pretty low in 1968.

 

[bobongo]

I agree. If the ACC start falling apart, it will start with ND. Depending on their success, a block of schools might challenge the GOR.

Notre Dame is the ACC's make-or-break. If they join, all will be well. If they don't, the conference may be relegated to second tier.
And by extension, the Irish could be Tech's make-or-break as well.

 

[Vespidae]

Ratings aren’t really going up, and in a lot of ways seem to be eroding, attendance is suffering, and my kids wonder why we have televisions. I’m not sure the upcoming generations will care nearly as much about football as we have.

ESPN networks accounted for 54% of all college football viewing ... up 4% from the previous year. A quick read suggests that ESPN's coverage model for CFB is different from the NFL because of the local demand of various college teams. So the strategy is to promote Game Day by Home Depot (a ratings monster), then use the various games to create feeds into their digital assets. So it's the News + Analysis Shows that really drive the ratings rather than the games themselves. At least, that's how I read it.

Apparently, according to ESPN ... it's working fine.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Reading through all this speculation, and that's all any of this really is, it seems most of us here fail to grasp a key concept: while fanbases and their determined message board warriors are distraught and eager to see their respective team bolt for the greener pastures of the B1G/$EC, the schools themselves are very content to still be a part of the ACC. The reason the universities ceded the GoR years ago was to weather storms like this. The university presidents and ADs have no real reason to rush into another conference. They are very content to work together to find a palatable path forward. Also, Notre Dame is absolutely not going to the B1G any time soon. They were offered a similar deal by the B1G when the Big East imploded but they do not see themselves as a B1G school. They definitely do not see themselves as an $EC school. They will stay independent for the time being and be content. Their deal with the ACC gives us relevance and they are happy with that deal.

IMO, the ACC is far more likely to do one of the two following things. First, they will likely work with the Pac-?? to reschedule games against each other fairly soon to help each league with TV revenue.

Second, I have been told by one source that the ACC is talking with a couple of schools about joining the ACC in order to renegotiate the TV deal. At least two of the schools mentioned are ND rivals (Stanford and Navy) which would help cement that relationship. I have also been told that WVU is being considered as a possible alternative, but Stanford, Navy, and one or two other PAC schools was what I was told. Source said this was still just talk, so not much more than semi-verified rumor at this point, but the takeaway is that the ACC is not completely standing still, just not advertising their moves.

I don't think we will see the ACC dissolve just yet. While we will be poorer than our $EC and B1G rivals, we are going to be a P3 conference for the near future.

 

[GoldZ]

Cabrera has been photographed at games. He was at last season’s GT-UGA game and was described as being livid about the sea of red in the local paper. He’s blogged and tweeted about GT sports and related items.



He has toured the state talking to students and alumni.



When there is good news about our sports — as there has been in our Women’s sports lately — he’s talked about it. There was also some background chatter that he’s taken notice of the huge outstanding debt our AA has and has people thinking of ways to solve it. I see him being engaged in that part of our environment.

He might even answer your questions about it if you ask him.

However, he’s probably more interested in bigger trends. Schools like GT are doing well. Many colleges and universities aren’t. State funding support for public universities has been diminishing over time—they’re more and more responsible for being self-funding. As much as their are big changes occurring for sports, the seas for colleges and universities are turbulent, too. Colleges and universities may be splitting into “winners” and “losers” as much as NCAA football teams are.

Like the CEO of a public company, his stakeholders judge him by how the Institute overall is doing, and how much he keeps his eyes on the tiller of the overall institution.

+++++++++++++
As for the trends for college football, right now it’s trending into tiers. FOX and ESPN and other content providers find it harder and harder to get a large share of eyeballs. They’re bidding for the most lucrative products right now. The demographics for pro and college football has a lot of older fans with money, but I think the demographics are graying. The ratings aren’t going up in the way that they used to. The middle market is getting split among more teams.

TL;DR: ESPN and FOX are paying more for fewer, higher viewership teams. Ratings aren’t really going up, and in a lot of ways seem to be eroding, attendance is suffering, and my kids wonder why we have televisions. I’m not sure the upcoming generations will care nearly as much about football as we have.

When something can’t continue, it eventually doesn’t. Either the viewership is going to have to increase or the payouts are going to decrease. There’s a shakeout going on right now, but it’s also possible that there’s an economic bubble for sports programming (and content programming of all sorts).

Some of us are debating about the ACC surviving until 2036. Is ESPN still around in 14 years, though?

Prob....if I ask him....c'mon, that's my point.

 

[GoldZ]

The president of the university has things much more important to deal with than athletics. Fans are consumed with athletics and believe that universities exist only to provide entertainment on Saturday afternoons. The president manages the entire university. The AD is responsible for managing athletics. The public face of a university's athletics should be the athletic director.

Can't argue with that, but....have you ever tried to sell your house with the front porch falling down!? The President of Notre Dame and Stanford seem to think the front porch has value, even though the kitchen and bathrooms are more important.

 

[RonJohn]

Second, I have been told by one source that the ACC is talking with a couple of schools about joining the ACC in order to renegotiate the TV deal. At least two of the schools mentioned are ND rivals (Stanford and Navy) which would help cement that relationship. I have also been told that WVU is being considered as a possible alternative, but Stanford, Navy, and one or two other PAC schools was what I was told. Source said this was still just talk, so not much more than semi-verified rumor at this point, but the takeaway is that the ACC is not completely standing still, just not advertising their moves.

That might be possible, but all of the dominos would have to be in place before any of it could happen. To get ND onboard, I think it would take having Stanford and Navy and a very large TV contract. Probably also a guarantee of no more than 8 conference games. To get Stanford, it would take having ND on board and a very large TV contract. To get a very large TV contract it would take having ND, Stanford, and probably Oregon and Washington on board. It is possible, but would take a lot of simultaneous coordination.

 

[reckrider]

Reading through all this speculation, and that's all any of this really is, it seems most of us here fail to grasp a key concept: while fanbases and their determined message board warriors are distraught and eager to see their respective team bolt for the greener pastures of the B1G/$EC, the schools themselves are very content to still be a part of the ACC. The reason the universities ceded the GoR years ago was to weather storms like this. The university presidents and ADs have no real reason to rush into another conference. They are very content to work together to find a palatable path forward. Also, Notre Dame is absolutely not going to the B1G any time soon. They were offered a similar deal by the B1G when the Big East imploded but they do not see themselves as a B1G school. They definitely do not see themselves as an $EC school. They will stay independent for the time being and be content. Their deal with the ACC gives us relevance and they are happy with that deal.

IMO, the ACC is far more likely to do one of the two following things. First, they will likely work with the Pac-?? to reschedule games against each other fairly soon to help each league with TV revenue.

Second, I have been told by one source that the ACC is talking with a couple of schools about joining the ACC in order to renegotiate the TV deal. At least two of the schools mentioned are ND rivals (Stanford and Navy) which would help cement that relationship. I have also been told that WVU is being considered as a possible alternative, but Stanford, Navy, and one or two other PAC schools was what I was told. Source said this was still just talk, so not much more than semi-verified rumor at this point, but the takeaway is that the ACC is not completely standing still, just not advertising their moves.

I don't think we will see the ACC dissolve just yet. While we will be poorer than our $EC and B1G rivals, we are going to be a P3 conference for the near future.

I say make a deal with the SEC to swap Clem’s son and the criminoles for Vandy and Kentucky.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

Reading through all this speculation, and that's all any of this really is, it seems most of us here fail to grasp a key concept: while fanbases and their determined message board warriors are distraught and eager to see their respective team bolt for the greener pastures of the B1G/$EC, the schools themselves are very content to still be a part of the ACC. The reason the universities ceded the GoR years ago was to weather storms like this. The university presidents and ADs have no real reason to rush into another conference. They are very content to work together to find a palatable path forward. Also, Notre Dame is absolutely not going to the B1G any time soon. They were offered a similar deal by the B1G when the Big East imploded but they do not see themselves as a B1G school. They definitely do not see themselves as an $EC school. They will stay independent for the time being and be content. Their deal with the ACC gives us relevance and they are happy with that deal.

IMO, the ACC is far more likely to do one of the two following things. First, they will likely work with the Pac-?? to reschedule games against each other fairly soon to help each league with TV revenue.

Second, I have been told by one source that the ACC is talking with a couple of schools about joining the ACC in order to renegotiate the TV deal. At least two of the schools mentioned are ND rivals (Stanford and Navy) which would help cement that relationship. I have also been told that WVU is being considered as a possible alternative, but Stanford, Navy, and one or two other PAC schools was what I was told. Source said this was still just talk, so not much more than semi-verified rumor at this point, but the takeaway is that the ACC is not completely standing still, just not advertising their moves.

I don't think we will see the ACC dissolve just yet. While we will be poorer than our $EC and B1G rivals, we are going to be a P3 conference for the near future.

I agree that nothing is happening right now. But, there is no way it lasts to 2036. The seed has been planted just like an expanded playoff. But the difference in yearly money is to great to be ignored and the schools stuck in the ACC won’t just give up. I think the conference will blow up within 5 years which is fairly quickly in college football time. I think we’ll also have an expanded playoffs within 5 years because the pressure keeps mounting every year that goes by and it Bama, UGA, and Ohio St. taking up 3 of the 4. And no one is knocking any of those 3 off their perches yet.

 

[gameface]

ND's buyout is

much cheaper than the other schools

Why should we believe someone who has first hand knowledge, when we can rely on anonymous internet statements from someone with "two friends who ......"?

Well the statement about two friends has nothing to do with the raises question. I was replying to another post and decided not to; deleted it and it somehow got put on my post about the raises. The professor who made the statement taught there for 45 years and is a friend. No reason for him to lie. So you say you know Vespidae personally so you trust him. I know the ex professor and I trust him.