Conference Realignment

[Northeast Stinger]

It’s all marketing and the guys who run the SEC and BIG have run circles around ACC leaders for decades which is why the majority of best players have signed there. Thankfully NIL can now overcome years of indoctrination by the media.

….and, it is this running marketing circles around the ACC, that makes most fans unhappy with the conference and at least five teams contemplating when and how they might leave.

I swear, if the ACC leadership could just get their house in order, and do a better job promoting the conference, I believe even FSU and Clemson would reconsider leaving.

 

[reckrider]

The more I read in this thread the less interest in college sports I find. Over 10000 posts of absolute nonsense. Just watch the games and STFU.

Never mind. My fault. I just found the Un Watch button. I’ll leave you now.

 

[forensicbuzz]

The more I read in this thread the less interest in college sports I find. Over 10000 posts of absolute nonsense. Just watch the games and STFU.

Dude, it's the off-season. That's what these threads are built for. No one made you read 10000 posts.

 

[iceeater1969]

Never mind. My fault. I just found the Un Watch button. I’ll leave you now.

Please check back and start a fight so we can get to 1000 pages at which point the moderators hav.e agreed to lock this thread. You just came and went! Few days ago we were at 500 to go, but now we are at 490 to go.

Some may say this is slow, but without negotiated compromise of the parties this will be locked before the present and future lawsuits, counter lawsuits, consolidation , secondary federal lawsuits , etc are finished.

 

[Vespidae]

I swear, if the ACC leadership could just get their house in order, and do a better job promoting the conference, I believe even FSU and Clemson would reconsider leaving.

What, exactly, do you want the ACC leadership to promote? Do you expect the college football universe to suddenly change 100 years of habit and start demanding a new product?

It‘s an established fact. Other than FSU and Clemson, virtually the entire rest of the conference are smaller schools, with smaller fan bases, and where athlethics are not as important.

When I was at Tech, the ACC was an 8 team basketball conference. Today, it’s the third most important athletic conference in the country. Overall, it’s probably the perfect fit for most of the schools in it.

 

[stinger78]

C’mon guys, all we need is another rumor of a team switching and a whole new raft of conspiracies will explode this thing past 1000 pages.

 

[RonJohn]

What, exactly, do you want the ACC leadership to promote? Do you expect the college football universe to suddenly change 100 years of habit and start demanding a new product?

It‘s an established fact. Other than FSU and Clemson, virtually the entire rest of the conference are smaller schools, with smaller fan bases, and where athlethics are not as important.

When I was at Tech, the ACC was an 8 team basketball conference. Today, it’s the third most important athletic conference in the country. Overall, it’s probably the perfect fit for most of the schools in it.

I think he is saying that the ACC should promote hype similar to how the SEC does.

I found a website that had the OOC records for all conferences since 1998. The SEC does have the best OOC record, but it is 56% not 90% or even 70%. The lowest is the ACC, but it is at 46%. The rest of the conferences were at almost exactly 50%. The SEC hype would lead people to believe that no SEC team can lose to anyone else, but they do lose 44% of the time.

The SEC hype would lead people to believe that SEC DLs tower over non-SEC OLs and outweigh them by 50 pounds. The SEC hype would lead people to believe that every SEC player has "SEC speed" and that there aren't any players in any other conference who can compare. If Vandy beats an OOC team, then Vandy has "SEC speed" and "SEC size". If Vandy loses OOC, then Vandy is just Vandy and doesn't represent the SEC. None of those things are actually true, but they are drummed into people's heads so often that it affects people's understandings. I believe that what he is saying is that the ACC should be doing the same type of self-promotion. Hype the speed of guys like Singleton. Hype the good players in the conference. The ACC had probably the best QB in the last decade at Clemson, but I never heard any discussion about Lawrence representing the ACC. He was discussed as Lawrence. He was discussed as Clemson's QB. I don't recall hearing any discussion about him and the ACC. The SEC would have hyped him as being representative of the typical SEC QB. True or not, they would have pushed it as a narrative.

 

[Vespidae]

True or not, they would have pushed it as a narrative.

Why wouldn’t they? They’re a dominant conference (in market size). The ACC isn’t.

In four weeks, the SEC will have 7 teams in the running for the playoffs. The ACC will have 2, maybe. They could have none If there’s a couple of upsets.

By October, there‘s going to be a lot more people watching SEC games than ACC. No amount of “promotion” is going to change that.

As to Trevor, he went there because he saw Clemson as having a shot at a natty and he wanted to be part of that. Clemson is struggling right now. That’s a decision Dabo made, not the ACC.

There‘s a lot of handwringing over the conference. The conference can only promote what the schools offer.

 

[stinger78]

I think he is saying that the ACC should promote hype similar to how the SEC does.

I found a website that had the OOC records for all conferences since 1998. The SEC does have the best OOC record, but it is 56% not 90% or even 70%. The lowest is the ACC, but it is at 46%. The rest of the conferences were at almost exactly 50%. The SEC hype would lead people to believe that no SEC team can lose to anyone else, but they do lose 44% of the time.

The SEC hype would lead people to believe that SEC DLs tower over non-SEC OLs and outweigh them by 50 pounds. The SEC hype would lead people to believe that every SEC player has "SEC speed" and that there aren't any players in any other conference who can compare. If Vandy beats an OOC team, then Vandy has "SEC speed" and "SEC size". If Vandy loses OOC, then Vandy is just Vandy and doesn't represent the SEC. None of those things are actually true, but they are drummed into people's heads so often that it affects people's understandings. I believe that what he is saying is that the ACC should be doing the same type of self-promotion. Hype the speed of guys like Singleton. Hype the good players in the conference. The ACC had probably the best QB in the last decade at Clemson, but I never heard any discussion about Lawrence representing the ACC. He was discussed as Lawrence. He was discussed as Clemson's QB. I don't recall hearing any discussion about him and the ACC. The SEC would have hyped him as being representative of the typical SEC QB. True or not, they would have pushed it as a narrative.

That’s how you build a narrative - you repeat a lie long enough and loud enough until the people believe it to be true. The SECheat/sEcSPN “partnership” is the best I’ve seen at this.

 

[RonJohn]

Why wouldn’t they? They’re a dominant conference (in market size). The ACC isn’t.

In four weeks, the SEC will have 7 teams in the running for the playoffs. The ACC will have 2, maybe. They could have none If there’s a couple of upsets.

By October, there‘s going to be a lot more people watching SEC games than ACC. No amount of “promotion” is going to change that.

As to Trevor, he went there because he saw Clemson as having a shot at a natty and he wanted to be part of that. Clemson is struggling right now. That’s a decision Dabo made, not the ACC.

There‘s a lot of handwringing over the conference. The conference can only promote what the schools offer.

The SEC may have 7 teams in the running for the playoffs, but that is largely because of hype. They have a lot of teams in the pre-season top 25, but that is because of hype. The SEC has been hyping for at least 25 years. They realized that the BCS depended upon poll voters and they hyped to try to get votes for SEC teams above teams from other conferences. The hype has been going on for so long, and is so prevalent that people don't even realize it is hype anymore.

My point about Lawrence wasn't about him. It was about the ACC not capitalizing on hyping him as an ACC QB when he was there. The SEC hyped Tebow. The SEC hyped Manziel. The SEC pushed that SEC teams have to compete against QBs like Tebow/Manziel every single week. That isn't true, but they said it enough that it sticks. Nobody from the ACC said anything like that about Lawrence. He was a better QB than either Tebow or Manziel, but he was Trevor Lawrence, or he was Clemson's Trevor Lawrence. He was never hyped as an ACC QB.

The SEC hypes much more than what the schools offer. "SEC speed". "SEC size". "SEC schedule". The way it is presented is an NFL vs high school type hype. Even the quote you presented from Myer leaves the impression that no teams in any other conference have anybody on the DL that is even close to the size of the smallest DL on any SEC team. The ACC doesn't engage in any of that type of hype.

 

[Vespidae]

Even the quote you presented from Myer leaves the impression that no teams in any other conference have anybody on the DL that is even close to the size of the smallest DL on any SEC team.

To be fair to Meyer (who I respect, but loathe) ... he was an SEC coach, a B1G coach, and a B12 coach, and a mid-America coach. But because he coached in the SEC, he's infected with the disease. Maybe he is just experienced? I suppose Kaylon Deboer is now infected?

A lot of these posts, if they were about women instead of a conference would be ...

SEC Cindy - the statuesque girl from high school who married her high school sweetheart, joined the country club, and 40 years later, still rocks a bikini. Everyone hates Cindy.
ACC Amy - the cute girl with a big rack. She got her degree in urban planning, gained 100 lbs and she's ugly and you hate having sex with her anymore.

Everyone hates Cindy. But what really needs to happen is Amy needs gastric bypass and start going to the gym.

 

[forensicbuzz]

I found a website that had the OOC records for all conferences since 1998. The SEC does have the best OOC record, but it is 56% not 90% or even 70%. The lowest is the ACC, but it is at 46%. The rest of the conferences were at almost exactly 50%. The SEC hype would lead people to believe that no SEC team can lose to anyone else, but they do lose 44% of the time.

I did the exercise a couple of years ago and posted it somewhere. If you dive into the numbers for these OOC records, you see the top of the SEC playing a bunch of bottom feeders from the other P4/5/6 conferences and most of the other conferences playing top versus top. There are exceptions in that LSU usually plays at least 1 tough team most years and Alabama would occasionally play a tough team, but the rest were pitiful. That OCC record is propped up by some really crappy games.

 

[RonJohn]

Everyone hates Cindy. But what really needs to happen is Amy needs gastric bypass and start going to the gym.

Or just start making TikTok videos outside of a mansion next to a McLaren talking about how hot and rich she is.

My impression of the SEC isn't that they are Cindy. They are a slightly better than average gal who tells everybody how hot and great she is all the time. She keeps saying it all the time until people actually start to believe it.

 

[Vespidae]

Or just start making TikTok videos outside of a mansion next to a McLaren talking about how hot and rich she is.

My impression of the SEC isn't that they are Cindy. They are a slightly better than average gal who tells everybody how hot and great she is all the time. She keeps saying it all the time until people actually start to believe it.

So let's restate it to ... "I hate my wife and want to divorce her so I can have sex with the better than average chick next door who also has a trust fund."

 

[RonJohn]

So let's restate it to ... "I hate my wife and want to divorce her so I can have sex with the better than average chick next door who also has a trust fund. uses heavy makeup and posts TikTok videos of herself in other people's exotic cars to make herself look rich"

I agree with the above modifications.

 

[Vespidae]

I agree with the above modifications.

SEC Derangement Syndrome ... no known cure.

 

[CEB]

But folks are talking about how the sport is being ruined and is doomed yet, as you agree, the sport is strong from all perspectives. To me, folks are simply being negative because they don’t like the changes so they whine and act like the world is ending. College football has one of the strongest and most loyal fanbase of all sports because people actually believe that the school represents them. And with enrollments being up at all schools, the fanbases continue to grow year after year. I know we all make fun of GT’s student body not caring but the enrollment keeps going up and as we win interest will increase. And the big state schools are enrolling new fans in huge numbers every fall that dwarf the fan losses from deaths in much smaller classes in the 50’s, 60’s, and 70’s.

This talk of killing the golden goose is a total misnomer and in reality means nothing. I could list dozens of schools who haven’t been top tier competitive in a long time yet their fans still show up and spend money because of loyalty (Vandy, GT, South Carolina, Miss St, Ole Miss, UNC, NC State, UVA, Purdue, Wisconsin, etc, etc). I’ve said many times that I know GT doesn’t care if I’m alive or dead yet I still give them my money because I’m a sucker for a place I lived for 5 years. It’s called irrationality.

Look at Ole Miss, a place most of us saw up close last season. An awesome and loyal fanbase who shows up year after year even though they have won absolutely nothing of value in decades. Those fans are the golden goose and if they haven’t left after decades of nothing they simply won’t because it’s more about tradition and “their school” than being a top tier team.

Define “the sport.”
What’s going on between the sidelines is extremely popular… I agree. In that sense, the “sport” is strong.

The structural changes being made outside of the field are beginning to threaten the on field product, thats where we have a problem. That’s the issue. The conference alignment garbage, the media money, the playoff jockeying… all of that is on a trajectory to STRUCTURALLY change the make up of college football.

If you like the idea of a premier league of 40 teams with multibillion dollar media deals and exclusive access to post-season made for TV invitational, while 70-ish current D1 programs play to fewer fans and get media slots on the Ocho on Tuesday and Wednesday night, then you have nothing to worry about. I guess as long as GT finds itself in that premier group, I don’t either…

 

[RonJohn]

SEC Derangement Syndrome ... no known cure.

I would probably agree that the SEC is slightly better at football. What I don't agree with is that the SEC is far better at football. You seem to believe that the SEC is the best and that it is non-negotiable. That to me is a symptom of a syndrome.

The SEC currently has 9 teams in the pre-season top 25. There is no reason to be in the top 25 at the moment other than hype. They will have 7-9 teams in the top 25 after four weeks. When SEC play is underway, SEC teams will be losing to "top 25" teams, so the losses won't hurt as much. If Ole Miss goes 8-4 this year, a Kentucky loss to them in late September won't matter because they were a top 10 team when the loss happened. But they would have only been a top 10 team because they were a top 10 team based on hype. The SEC will likely have 5-7 teams in the top 25 in November. But that will be based on the pre-season polls and how those teams "beat up on each other". Look at Ole Miss's OOC schedule: Furman, MTSU, WF, and Ga Southern. There are a lot of teams in the P4 that could go 4-0 against that schedule.

The "SEC Dominance" is the reason that they are starting with so many teams in the top 25. Having so many teams in the top 25 now will cause them to have many teams in the top 25 in November. Then having so many teams in the top 25 in November will be proof of the "SEC Dominance". It is circular logic. I am not railing against the SEC. I am railing against the hype, the circular logic, and the logic that ignores last week's logic.

 

[Vespidae]

I would probably agree that the SEC is slightly better at football. What I don't agree with is that the SEC is far better at football. You seem to believe that the SEC is the best and that it is non-negotiable. That to me is a symptom of a syndrome.

The SEC currently has 9 teams in the pre-season top 25. There is no reason to be in the top 25 at the moment other than hype. They will have 7-9 teams in the top 25 after four weeks. When SEC play is underway, SEC teams will be losing to "top 25" teams, so the losses won't hurt as much. If Ole Miss goes 8-4 this year, a Kentucky loss to them in late September won't matter because they were a top 10 team when the loss happened. But they would have only been a top 10 team because they were a top 10 team based on hype. The SEC will likely have 5-7 teams in the top 25 in November. But that will be based on the pre-season polls and how those teams "beat up on each other". Look at Ole Miss's OOC schedule: Furman, MTSU, WF, and Ga Southern. There are a lot of teams in the P4 that could go 4-0 against that schedule.

The "SEC Dominance" is the reason that they are starting with so many teams in the top 25. Having so many teams in the top 25 now will cause them to have many teams in the top 25 in November. Then having so many teams in the top 25 in November will be proof of the "SEC Dominance". It is circular logic. I am not railing against the SEC. I am railing against the hype, the circular logic, and the logic that ignores last week's logic.

I agree with 100% of this. The SEC does a better job of managing the preseason rankings and as a result, is more likely to have teams in the playoffs. I think it's smart on their part. And it is not new. Johnny Vaught did this back in the 1950s. The ACC deliberately does not and there's a consequence of that.

As to whether I believe the SEC is the "best" or not, that's immaterial to me what anyone thinks - it's not going to change my viewing habits one iota. I grew up watching SEC ball and Georgia Tech played a mostly SEC schedule when I was in school. These are still the teams I watch every Saturday. It really won't matter if Bama is 5-4 or Wake beat Vandy. I watch the teams I like to watch.

 

[CEB]

To be fair to Meyer (who I respect, but loathe) ... he was an SEC coach, a B1G coach, and a B12 coach, and a mid-America coach. But because he coached in the SEC, he's infected with the disease. Maybe he is just experienced? I suppose Kaylon Deboer is now infected?

A lot of these posts, if they were about women instead of a conference would be ...

SEC Cindy - the statuesque girl from high school who married her high school sweetheart, joined the country club, and 40 years later, still rocks a bikini. Everyone hates Cindy.
ACC Amy - the cute girl with a big rack. She got her degree in urban planning, gained 100 lbs and she's ugly and you hate having sex with her anymore.

Everyone hates Cindy. But what really needs to happen is Amy needs gastric bypass and start going to the gym.

This analogy had so much potential. It was diffused all too quickly.

I’d like to explore it a little further, perhaps refine it.

SEC Cindy wasn’t that hot. After high school she blew all of her savings on a boob job and managed to bag an attorney one night after her shift at the gentlemen’s club. She doesn’t like to talk about that. He bought her a face, a tuck and a Mercedes and now she flits around the country club in a tennis skirt telling everyone how virtuous she is and how hard she worked to look so good in that bikini shoot she did for charity… yeah, we all hate Cindy.

I think you’re too hard on ACC Amy. She was never overly popular but she’s always been pretty hot. Maybe she let herself go a little but she’s still a good looking woman with an amazing rack. She walks around in oversized sweatshirts and doesn’t bother to put herself together. That’s probably OK for you, because if she applied herself, she could do so much better. Sometimes her defeatist attitude makes it hard to love her, but dammit, you do.