Conference Realignment

[stinger 1957]

There are going to be a lot of smaller programs that cannot and will not afford the player payment system, this is going to trigger movement in the alignment game, I feel sure about that. many will not be asked to join the Big 2 so something in the downsize dept will have to take place, not sure what their options may be, but if you ain't got the money and you can't or elect not to get it you gotta make a change. It's called meeting payrolls for those that have never been responsible for doing that.

I will believe ND joins a conference when I see ND name a conference they are joining. I think eventually they could be forced to join just to get good scheduling when and if consolidation moves further along, but I'm not even positive about that. As long as they can see a road to maintain their position of independence along with national prominence and that includes sufficient money from TV they will continue to do so IMO, I would if I were them.

A lot of schools now have a really big money problem to deal with, movement is going to take place, it will be ugly for some fan bases.

If ESPN takes the money and applies it to the remaining ACC schools does that keep the Big 10 from coming in and getting schools in the S.E. thereby protecting ESPN's TV turf? Of the remaining ACC schools the overall matchups would appear to be better. Does viewership get better with the better matchups, I don't know just ask the question? It appears to me that ESPN could have approx 5 ACC games per week, is that enough content? I don't know.

 

[gtbb]

"evidence" wasn't the right word. Rather I should have said that I hadn't heard a reasonable argument convincing me of such.

I know everyone thinks FSU already has a landing spot, but I have still not heard anything to convince me it is B1G or SEC. To hear FSU fans is it's a done deal but when pressed, their only argument is that B1G wold be crazy not to take them even without AAU. That's all they have - their school is too special to not get invited.

I'm not convinced. Straw polls exist, but with all the mess this has turned out to be I am doubtful either conference wants them now and certainly not without owning their media rights.

I have no inside information. But I have a hard time believing that FSU & Clemson would go through all this trouble unless they were pretty sure that one of the P2 wanted them. It just seems like it would otherwise be a huge waste of time, resources, and reputation.

 

[gte447f]

You're conveniently leaving out the upper half of the B1G who have the best viewership and fans in all of college football. Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, Iowa, USC, Washington, Oregon, Michigan State, Wisconsin, Nebraska. EVERY conference has bad teams no one cares for. ACC just has more than the B1G and SEC, and the numbers bare that out. Not only would being in the B1G help our viewership ratings, but also attendance. Outside of Clemson and FSU, the ACC struggles to pull viewers in. UNC, which is considered the flagship program of the ACC, has troubles with attendance and viewership. They are barely ahead of us in viewers.

GT fans really have a difficult time looking at the long view for the health of our program. No team has ever been in the situation GT has: Being a member of the SEC, and had the opportunity to join the B1G. The conversation for GT, and the uncertainty around the health of our program, would be totally different if GT decided differently in either situations.

I'm not sure some GT fans grasp the gravity of GT's long term future if we remain in the ACC.

Someone posted a chart of tv viewership for the ACC on here a while back and y’all’s beloved UNC was about 4th from last. I don’t understand why so many on here think UNC football is the poster child of the ACC. They have been mediocre forever. Clemson is clearly the poster child of the ACC.

 

[RonJohn]

I have no inside information. But I have a hard time believing that FSU & Clemson would go through all this trouble unless they were pretty sure that one of the P2 wanted them. It just seems like it would otherwise be a huge waste of time, resources, and reputation.

It came out that there were scathing emails and messages from fans, including very large boosters, to the FSU BOT and AD after the CFP snub. That is thought to be the reason they filed the lawsuit when they did, not because they thought they had a stronger legal case in December than they had last May. Members of the BOT have said publicly that they would rather be independent than be in the ACC any longer. Their first legal filing in the lawsuit sounded a lot more like angry banter than anything with any legal merit. They supposedly released information that is under an NDA, and which ESPN considers trade secret information. FSU has not been acting as if they are actually trying to achieve anything other than leave the ACC. FSU BOT members have already said publicly that they are definitely leaving as soon as they can whether the door is open or not, and lead to a believe that it is whether they have a landing spot or not.

I still haven't read the Clemson filing, but it at least sounded a lot more like they are attacking language in the GOR instead of attacking the ACC. I don't think Clemson is painting themselves into a corner as much as FSU is. It seems as if they are trying to open a door to be able to leave, but they haven't said they are definitely leaving.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

IDGAF about Louisville wake forest BC Syracuse either. Would love to play all the top teams in the Big10 as well.

And, I know I’m an outlier here, but I would rather see Illinois, Northwestern and Indiana than watch some of these ACC teams. We wouldn’t have any more in common with them either but at least it would be something new to watch, a different style or philosophy. I’ve never seen any of them play so there would at least be some mystery to them. They would make a good appetizer before diving into the main dish of OSU, Michigan, Penn State etc.

 

[stinger78]

And, I know I’m an outlier here, but I would rather see Illinois, Northwestern and Indiana than watch some of these ACC teams. We wouldn’t have any more in common with them either but at least it would be something new to watch, a different style or philosophy. I’ve never seen any of them play so there would at least be some mystery to them. They would make a good appetizer before diving into the main dish of OSU, Michigan, Penn State etc.

It would be new for about 2 home games and a trip or two there. Then it would be like playing… Louisville, Syracuse, and BC.

 

[rfjeff9]

It came out that there were scathing emails and messages from fans, including very large boosters, to the FSU BOT and AD after the CFP snub. That is thought to be the reason they filed the lawsuit when they did, not because they thought they had a stronger legal case in December than they had last May. Members of the BOT have said publicly that they would rather be independent than be in the ACC any longer. Their first legal filing in the lawsuit sounded a lot more like angry banter than anything with any legal merit. They supposedly released information that is under an NDA, and which ESPN considers trade secret information. FSU has not been acting as if they are actually trying to achieve anything other than leave the ACC. FSU BOT members have already said publicly that they are definitely leaving as soon as they can whether the door is open or not, and lead to a believe that it is whether they have a landing spot or not.

I still haven't read the Clemson filing, but it at least sounded a lot more like they are attacking language in the GOR instead of attacking the ACC. I don't think Clemson is painting themselves into a corner as much as FSU is. It seems as if they are trying to open a door to be able to leave, but they haven't said they are definitely leaving.

Exactly. And I forgot about the first part of their suit reading like nothing more than a gripe fest. Clemson isn't leaving yet, but they want to be able to do so fithe itch, whenever they get thenitch.

So still, I have yet to see any argument or persuasion that FSU has a soft invite under the table/landing spot, (or Clemson either for that matter).

 

[stinger78]

Exactly. And I forgot about the first part of their suit reading like nothing more than a gripe fest. Clemson isn't leaving yet, but they want to be able to do so fithe itch, whenever they get thenitch.

So still, I have yet to see any argument or persuasion that FSU has a soft invite under the table/landing spot, (or Clemson either for that matter).

I think they’re both just tossing stuff against the wall to see what sticks - F$U in their typically entitled way and Clemson as a charter member of the conference.

 

[WreckinGT]

I have no inside information. But I have a hard time believing that FSU & Clemson would go through all this trouble unless they were pretty sure that one of the P2 wanted them. It just seems like it would otherwise be a huge waste of time, resources, and reputation.

That's what common sense would tell you. I would be shocked if FSU, Clemson, and UNC aren't already pretty clear on what their options are once they leave. Nearly every school in the ACC should be having these talks behind the scenes with the bigger conferences.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

It would be new for about 2 home games and a trip or two there. Then it would be like playing… Louisville, Syracuse, and BC.

Exactly. For a lot more money for the program.

 

[gtbb]

It came out that there were scathing emails and messages from fans, including very large boosters, to the FSU BOT and AD after the CFP snub. That is thought to be the reason they filed the lawsuit when they did, not because they thought they had a stronger legal case in December than they had last May. Members of the BOT have said publicly that they would rather be independent than be in the ACC any longer. Their first legal filing in the lawsuit sounded a lot more like angry banter than anything with any legal merit. They supposedly released information that is under an NDA, and which ESPN considers trade secret information. FSU has not been acting as if they are actually trying to achieve anything other than leave the ACC. FSU BOT members have already said publicly that they are definitely leaving as soon as they can whether the door is open or not, and lead to a believe that it is whether they have a landing spot or not.

I still haven't read the Clemson filing, but it at least sounded a lot more like they are attacking language in the GOR instead of attacking the ACC. I don't think Clemson is painting themselves into a corner as much as FSU is. It seems as if they are trying to open a door to be able to leave, but they haven't said they are definitely leaving.

OK thanks for the context around FSU. So, if FSU goes Independent, they'll be much worse off than if they remain in the ACC (I think). So, just leaving the ACC would seem insane. I think anything other than a P2 invitation would be bad for Clemson and FSU.

 

[orientalnc]

It came out that there were scathing emails and messages from fans, including very large boosters, to the FSU BOT and AD after the CFP snub. That is thought to be the reason they filed the lawsuit when they did, not because they thought they had a stronger legal case in December than they had last May. Members of the BOT have said publicly that they would rather be independent than be in the ACC any longer. Their first legal filing in the lawsuit sounded a lot more like angry banter than anything with any legal merit. They supposedly released information that is under an NDA, and which ESPN considers trade secret information. FSU has not been acting as if they are actually trying to achieve anything other than leave the ACC. FSU BOT members have already said publicly that they are definitely leaving as soon as they can whether the door is open or not, and lead to a believe that it is whether they have a landing spot or not.

I still haven't read the Clemson filing, but it at least sounded a lot more like they are attacking language in the GOR instead of attacking the ACC. I don't think Clemson is painting themselves into a corner as much as FSU is. It seems as if they are trying to open a door to be able to leave, but they haven't said they are definitely leaving.

I have a couple of NC lawyer friends who follow the FSU case and they pretty much agree with your sentiment. From a legal standpoint the FSU lawsuit doesn't have much merit. They are counting on Florida courts to give them an exit window, but any appeal that goes beyond a Florida court is likely to end the FSU dream.

 

[stinger 1957]

It is appearing more and more likely that the "GOR is ironclad tight" is BS. Sounding more and more like it applies only if you remain an ACC conference member under the present ESPN contract, if you leave the ACC it does not apply. It could apply to content that you leave with the ACC from the days you were in the conference.

Appearing that FSU could announce they are leaving and paying some sort of exit fee based on exit fee only. Also sounding like they see some chinks in the armor of the whole exit fee of $130 mil (?). I've listened to the GOR/ESPN wording conversation and it may have some merit, not sure yet about any arguments for a reduction in exit fee as to whether they may have some merit. Sounds like it could get real interesting before long. FSU may not play the game in the courts as it is being done now, they may just skip right into "we're gone announcement". That makes it very interesting IMO. Does that bring on exposure that ACC and ESPN do not want if they fight it under the GOR? I don't know, just asking the question.

Seeing more and more people connected to the business of CFB express their opinion that FSU and Clemson are gone, just a matter of how long not if. I'm not invested either way, just want it to get on over with and those that want to and have the chance to participate in the major CFB of the future have that chance. Do I think GT has a chance? Yes I do. Would I like to see them make a go at it, Yes I would, but I've always been a reacher rather than a hanger on. I've busted my a*#** a few times, lost some, won some, gotten up made another go of it, won, it's been quite a trip. So I'm the type that wants to see them give it a go if that opportunity exist and I think it probably does. We at this time just don't know it for sure.

 

[RonJohn]

It is appearing more and more likely that the "GOR is ironclad tight" is BS. Sounding more and more like it applies only if you remain an ACC conference member under the present ESPN contract, if you leave the ACC it does not apply. It could apply to content that you leave with the ACC from the days you were in the conference.

Based on what? YouTube commentary by people who don't actually have any factual information?

This is one of the arguments in the Clemson filings, from the articles I have seen. There is nothing to back that up other than Clemson making a claim in their filing. I try to find facts and base my opinions on those facts. Everything on Twitter, YouTube, forums, and blogs is nothing more than people saying what they think. I don't trust any conclusions that anyone on such places comes to. The courts might end up agreeing with Clemson. However, the GOR has been poured over by many lawyers for several years. If someone on Twitter or YouTube discusses this like it is something that was just found in the GOR, I suggest turning them off immediately.

 

[stech81]

Based on what? YouTube commentary by people who don't actually have any factual information?

This is one of the arguments in the Clemson filings, from the articles I have seen. There is nothing to back that up other than Clemson making a claim in their filing. I try to find facts and base my opinions on those facts. Everything on Twitter, YouTube, forums, and blogs is nothing more than people saying what they think. I don't trust any conclusions that anyone on such places comes to. The courts might end up agreeing with Clemson. However, the GOR has been poured over by many lawyers for several years. If someone on Twitter or YouTube discusses this like it is something that was just found in the GOR, I suggest turning them off immediately.

I agree 99.9 percent of the things we read are bullsh@t. I would think ( and I’m only guessing) most of the stuff we read is from FSU fans and fans in the Big 12 who want to see the ACC die.
If you don’t see anything or hear anything that seems to be when something is going to happen.
I’ll be happy when the season starts and we can talk about how good this team is this year.

 

[RonJohn]

Attack the messenger when the message does not fit what you want to hear, I see the MSM people doing exactly what you are doing. The world is passing you by while you are burried in your data, documents and legal. I've watched people like you be losers all my life, the world just passes them by. We'll see what FSU does. There has been a lawyer that i have listened to that is following this very closely and he has some great discussions about it all but you probably need to attack him because he probably will not be saying what you want to hear.
You're going to lose this, the ACC is going to implode, don't know exactly how it plays out but it is going to happen, or what happens to all the present ACC members or the conference remains, but book it, the ACC as we know it today is coming down and it will not be 5 or more years from now when that happens.

You said that "It is appearing more and more likely that the "GOR is ironclad tight" is BS. Sounding more and more like it applies only if you remain an ACC conference member under the present ESPN contract, if you leave the ACC it does not apply. It could apply to content that you leave with the ACC from the days you were in the conference." What has changed to make you think that? The GOR hasn't changed. Clemson filed this in their lawsuit 2 months ago. As far as I know nothing has changed and no facts have been reported since then. How is the "appearance" changing? People shouting on YouTube is not a change in the circumstances.

A lot is going to change in college athletics in the next few years. I see a lot of evidence that players will be declared employees in the very near future. I do think that the college landscape will change a lot in the next 3-10 years. I just think that it is far more likely that the entire P4 move to a super league arrangement than the lawyers suddenly having an epiphany that the GOR isn't a valid document. If you are getting this irritated and excited about the discussion, it might be time to pay less attention to the rabid commentators on YouTube.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Attack the messenger when the message does not fit what you want to hear, I see the MSM people doing exactly what you are doing. The world is passing you by while you are burried in your data, documents and legal. I've watched people like you be losers all my life, the world just passes them by. We'll see what FSU does. There has been a lawyer that i have listened to that is following this very closely and he has some great discussions about it all but you probably need to attack him because he probably will not be saying what you want to hear.
You're going to lose this, the ACC is going to implode, don't know exactly how it plays out but it is going to happen, or what happens to all the present ACC members or the conference remains, but book it, the ACC as we know it today is coming down and it will not be 5 or more years from now when that happens.

The ACC, as we currently know it, goes away either when all conferences end and there 1 superconference, or 2036. Not before then. PERIOD. The other members of the ACC have ZERO incentive to let FSU and Clemson out, because if they did, they'd have to void the GOR, and once that happens, a third to half the conference goes away. Wake Forest, Boston College, Syracuse, Pitt, etc. will not allow that to happen.

However, with all the movement towards professionalism, I think there will be a much larger schism soon. That will shake up the entire CFB landscape.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

You said that "It is appearing more and more likely that the "GOR is ironclad tight" is BS. Sounding more and more like it applies only if you remain an ACC conference member under the present ESPN contract, if you leave the ACC it does not apply. It could apply to content that you leave with the ACC from the days you were in the conference." What has changed to make you think that? The GOR hasn't changed. Clemson filed this in their lawsuit 2 months ago. As far as I know nothing has changed and no facts have been reported since then. How is the "appearance" changing? People shouting on YouTube is not a change in the circumstances.

A lot is going to change in college athletics in the next few years. I see a lot of evidence that players will be declared employees in the very near future. I do think that the college landscape will change a lot in the next 3-10 years. I just think that it is far more likely that the entire P4 move to a super league arrangement than the lawyers suddenly having an epiphany that the GOR isn't a valid document. If you are getting this irritated and excited about the discussion, it might be time to pay less attention to the rabid commentators on YouTube.

The players can’t be employees and students at the same time. So if they’re employees, does that mean they stop the pretense of being students? No more class. No more degree. You’re like the janitorial staff. Only you make a **** ton of money.

 

[RonJohn]

The players can’t be employees and students at the same time. So if they’re employees, does that mean they stop the pretense of being students? No more class. No more degree. You’re like the janitorial staff. Only you make a **** ton of money.

There are plenty of college students who are also employees. GAs are students and also employees who teach or conduct research aren't they? I don't know how much goes on at GT, but if I understand correctly Ivy schools that provide "free" tuition depending on family income require some work at the school for the room and board portions of financial aid. It isn't mutually exclusive.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

There are plenty of college students who are also employees. GAs are students and also employees who teach or conduct research aren't they? I don't know how much goes on at GT, but if I understand correctly Ivy schools that provide "free" tuition depending on family income require some work at the school for the room and board portions of financial aid. It isn't mutually exclusive.

I’m down with that. However, I doubt most would opt to be students. If they are paid employees, they would not be made to be students anymore.