Conference Realignment

[stinger78]

All you need to know about “has Miami sucked” is how many coaches they fired. Different programs have different standards for “suck” and Miami holds themselves to a higher one than you are - to the one they haven’t met, that they were hoped to meet.

I’m not saying the ACC was doomed by them having a handful of average seasons; but their last 20 years have entirely, completely, failed to match the 20 years before that.

Like if the Big 10 had added 7-9 win GT and then gotten twenty years of 3-5 wins.

No, because Miami didn’t go 20 years of 3-5 wins.

Since joining the ACC (20 years) they have had exactly two (2) five-win season. Here they are by number of wins since 2004:
0-4 wins - 0
5-wins - 2
6-wins - 3
7-wins - 7
8-wins - 2
9-wins - 5
10-wins - 1

8 of their 20 ACC seasons they’ve won 8-10 games. No, that’s not the pace they cut the 20 years previous, and that’s an issue, but the ACC doesn’t suck because of Miami.

The ACC sucks because UVA has pulled only 2 winning seasons since 2011. Dook has pulled 13 losing seasons and Wake 11 in that same 20 years Miami’s been around. And… Georgia Tech pulled three IAR 3-win seasons and two 5-win seasons out of the last 7 years. If we’re going to assign blame for that, let’s hit the right target.

 

[slugboy]

Miami SP+, up to 2019. Notice that they have a bunch of titles, join the Big East, fall apart, rebuild themselves to win a title, then join the ACC and fall apart with occasional spikes of being good. They had 4 straight years in the top 5, including a championship, and then joined the ACC.

We were expecting that perennial top 5/top 10 team. That’s not what we got.

 

[cpf2001]

No, because Miami didn’t go 20 years of 3-5 wins.

Since joining the ACC (20 years) they have had exactly two (2) five-win season. Here they are by number of wins since 2004:
0-4 wins - 0
5-wins - 2
6-wins - 3
7-wins - 7
8-wins - 2
9-wins - 5
10-wins - 1

8 of their 20 ACC seasons they’ve won 8-10 games. No, that’s not the pace they cut the 20 years previous, and that’s an issue, but the ACC doesn’t suck because of Miami.

The ACC sucks because UVA has pulled only 2 winning seasons since 2011. Dook has pulled 13 losing seasons and Wake 11 in that same 20 years Miami’s been around. And… Georgia Tech pulled three IAR 3-win seasons and two 5-win seasons out of the last 7 years. If we’re going to assign blame for that, let’s hit the right target.

It’s relative.

It’s really that simple: it’s relative. GT fires coaches for 3-5 wins or only very eventually for 7. Miami fires coaches for 6-8 wins.

GT hurt the ACC by getting worse and so did Miami, they were expected (even by themselves) to carry a heavier load. Conferences need top dogs.

(It’s not like those numbers are even much better than GT’s - 3 9 wins, 2 11. And Tech fans also aren’t very happy with the last 20 years overall, despite not being 90s Miami right before it.)

 

[Techster]

 

[gte447f]

Isn’t this a GT site? Why are we spending so much time talking about UM? I hate those bastids.

Because it hurts too bad to talk about how GT has been far worse than Miami, and actually one of the worst bottom feeders in the conference. Ouch.

 

[yeti92]

It’s relative.

It’s really that simple: it’s relative. GT fires coaches for 3-5 wins or only very eventually for 7. Miami fires coaches for 6-8 wins.

GT hurt the ACC by getting worse and so did Miami, they were expected (even by themselves) to carry a heavier load. Conferences need top dogs.

(It’s not like those numbers are even much better than GT’s - 3 9 wins, 2 11. And Tech fans also aren’t very happy with the last 20 years overall, despite not being 90s Miami right before it.)

Yep, if we compare to Tech's record over the same 20 years:

0-4 wins - 4
5-wins - 2
6-wins - 1
7-wins - 7
8-wins - 1
9-wins - 3
10-wins - 0
11-wins - 2

Pretty dang similar, with the exception of Tech having some higher highs (thanks Paul) and lower lows (thanks Geoff). Both paint a picture of fairly mid-tier teams though, and that's not what Miami was brought to the ACC to be.

 

[cpf2001]

Because it hurts too bad to talk about how GT has been far worse than Miami, and actually one of the worst bottom feeders in the conference. Ouch.

GT has been basically just as good, except for three years under Collins. But if you’d told us in 2003 that GT would be a peer to Miami for the next 20 years we’d be thinking serious title contention…

 

[stinger78]

Because it hurts too bad to talk about how GT has been far worse than Miami, and actually one of the worst bottom feeders in the conference. Ouch.

So we just blame Miami instead.

 

[stinger78]

Yep, if we compare to Tech's record over the same 20 years:

0-4 wins - 4
5-wins - 2
6-wins - 1
7-wins - 7
8-wins - 1
9-wins - 3
10-wins - 0
11-wins - 2

Pretty dang similar, with the exception of Tech having some higher highs (thanks Paul) and lower lows (thanks Geoff). Both paint a picture of fairly mid-tier teams though, and that's not what Miami was brought to the ACC to be.

Nor was it what GT was brought in the be. Did they really say wtte: Wow, we can get GT on the cheap to take over for Dook and Wake in the bottom tier.

No, they saw us a a quality program in the doldrums. Miami was a hot program that was overdue for a cool down.

Meh… when does fall practice start?

 

[stinger78]

Miami SP+, up to 2019. Notice that they have a bunch of titles, join the Big East, fall apart, rebuild themselves to win a title, then join the ACC and fall apart with occasional spikes of being good. They had 4 straight years in the top 5, including a championship, and then joined the ACC.

We were expecting that perennial top 5/top 10 team. That’s not what we got.

View attachment 16188

If the ACC really brought in an historically mediocre program that was on a hot streak and expected them to be perennially hot, then the joke’s on the ACC. No program stays hot that long.

 

[gtbb]

It always felt like the difference with NC State was that they usually won the games they were supposed to win. Whereas UNC, Miami, and Tech always had these wtf losses.

NC State has had a run of solid football seasons. They're never great, but never awful, and seem to have settled into 8-9 wins like clockwork. Not sure what it will take for NC State to get to that elusive next level. They just can't quite get to that top tier in conference. And they have a good fanbase. They sellout just about every game, and seem to be "into" the games.

 

[gtbb]

No, because Miami didn’t go 20 years of 3-5 wins.

Since joining the ACC (20 years) they have had exactly two (2) five-win season. Here they are by number of wins since 2004:
0-4 wins - 0
5-wins - 2
6-wins - 3
7-wins - 7
8-wins - 2
9-wins - 5
10-wins - 1

8 of their 20 ACC seasons they’ve won 8-10 games. No, that’s not the pace they cut the 20 years previous, and that’s an issue, but the ACC doesn’t suck because of Miami.

The ACC sucks because UVA has pulled only 2 winning seasons since 2011. Dook has pulled 13 losing seasons and Wake 11 in that same 20 years Miami’s been around. And… Georgia Tech pulled three IAR 3-win seasons and two 5-win seasons out of the last 7 years. If we’re going to assign blame for that, let’s hit the right target.

Miami, IMO, would have been built back to championship status if Mark Richt had stayed and not had health issues. He retired due to health problems. But he had that program doing better his first two years than anything they had done in years prior to his arrival. I think by 2018, he was having a tough time with the job and his health, and it showed as his offense fell apart. He got them going on an IPF, and he was putting more emphasis on recruiting. But him leaving after just 3 seasons kinda set them back (again)....

 

[iceeater1969]

It’s relative.

It’s really that simple: it’s relative. GT fires coaches for 3-5 wins or only very eventually for 7. Miami fires coaches for 6-8 wins.

GT hurt the ACC by getting worse and so did Miami, they were expected (even by themselves) to carry a heavier load. Conferences need top dogs.

(It’s not like those numbers are even much better than GT’s - 3 9 wins, 2 11. And Tech fans also aren’t very happy with the last 20 years overall, despite not being 90s Miami right before it.)

Why split the tv money on equal basis if some schools find 4 win season the bottom and others 7?

200 pages ago i said fsu clemson and espn feel like some of the bottom feeders like gt nèed to up their game and some bottom feeders with low tv market need to leave. He who has the gold makes the rules. The GOR helps set the price.

 

[g0lftime]

Nor was it what GT was brought in the be. Did they really say wtte: Wow, we can get GT on the cheap to take over for Dook and Wake in the bottom tier.

No, they saw us a a quality program in the doldrums. Miami was a hot program that was overdue for a cool down.

Meh… when does fall practice start?

Wanted the Atlanta market and South Carolina had left the ACC plus they wanted to back fill that spot. I think only 8 teams back then.

 

[g0lftime]

Nor was it what GT was brought in the be. Did they really say wtte: Wow, we can get GT on the cheap to take over for Dook and Wake in the bottom tier.

No, they saw us a a quality program in the doldrums. Miami was a hot program that was overdue for a cool down.

Meh… when does fall practice start?

Wanted the Atlanta market and South Carolina had left the ACC plus they wanted to back fill that spot. I think only 8 teams back then. We were in a Metro Conference for basketball but easy to get out of that.

 

[ThatGuy]

If the ACC really brought in an historically mediocre program that was on a hot streak and expected them to be perennially hot, then the joke’s on the ACC. No program stays hot that long.

Not according to FSU and Clemson.

Somebody should probably inform the Big 10 and SEC of that.

 

[gtbb]

If the ACC really brought in an historically mediocre program that was on a hot streak and expected them to be perennially hot, then the joke’s on the ACC. No program stays hot that long.

OK, that's true. But Miami won 5 national championships in 19 years. I think there was a reasonable assumption that Miami was going to be a national factor when they entered the ACC, and they absolutely disappointed in that regard.

 

[stinger78]

OK, that's true. But Miami won 5 national championships in 19 years. I think there was a reasonable assumption that Miami was going to be a national factor when they entered the ACC, and they absolutely disappointed in that regard.

Yes, in that regard they did. But I don’t assign to them the blame for the ACC’s perception of weakness. For Pete sake, the ACC’s undefeated champ was dissed for last year’s playoff. That F$U program won 3 MNCs and had 3 more unclaimed MNCs between 1993 and 2013, yet they were dissed.

 

[RonJohn]

Yes, in that regard they did. But I don’t assign to them the blame for the ACC’s perception of weakness. For Pete sake, the ACC’s undefeated champ was dissed for last year’s playoff. That F$U program won 3 MNCs and had 3 more unclaimed MNCs between 1993 and 2013, yet they were dissed.

The point is that the ACC was expected to be very good in football in 2004. Eight of the top 28 early pre-season teams in 2004 were ACC teams. Miami and FSU were in the title discussion almost every year for several seasons before 2004. Miami was on a four season streak of 11+ wins when they joined the ACC. They didn't win 10 again until 2017. IF Fsu and Miami had kept up the perinial championship contention, UNC and VT had kept up good seasons, and UVA, and GT had kept having spurts of extremely good seasons, then the ACC would be thought of as a football conference.

In other words, the lack of production from many ACC teams, but in particular FSU and Miami in the mid 2000s is the major reason that the ACC is not thought of highly. If those two teams had kept up to their expectations, then the ACC would be regarded as a good football conference, and FSU would have made the playoffs last year.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

The point is that the ACC was expected to be very good in football in 2004. Eight of the top 28 early pre-season teams in 2004 were ACC teams. Miami and FSU were in the title discussion almost every year for several seasons before 2004. Miami was on a four season streak of 11+ wins when they joined the ACC. They didn't win 10 again until 2017. IF Fsu and Miami had kept up the perinial championship contention, UNC and VT had kept up good seasons, and UVA, and GT had kept having spurts of extremely good seasons, then the ACC would be thought of as a football conference.

In other words, the lack of production from many ACC teams, but in particular FSU and Miami in the mid 2000s is the major reason that the ACC is not thought of highly. If those two teams had kept up to their expectations, then the ACC would be regarded as a good football conference, and FSU would have made the playoffs last year.

Perhaps would have been viewed as the best football conference.