Conference Realignment

[RonJohn]

The ACC doesn't just have full authority to do whatever they want with the members rights. All material media rights agreements and updates have to be approved by the members themselves. The original contract was approved by the members and presumably updates were approved as well. Well except the ESPN option extension which Jim Philips has deemed non material for some reason. Saying now that the members are not a party to the contract which they had to approve, and which they get benefits from is a stretch.

I understand your point, however you are totally bought into the way FSU and the Florida AG characterize the situation. Does an organization simply having a member who is a public entity force that organization to be open book? If a drug company invites the Surgeon General to observe their production of an experimental drug, does that force them to open up the formula for the drug to the public? There is a line somewhere, but if that line is stretched so far that having a public entity as a member forces all of your internal records to be public, then public entities will have a hard time joining or maintaining memberships in organizations. GTRI is a public entity. They do a lot of research for the military, which is also a public entity. Will a FOIA request get access to all of the details of the research that is being conducted?

The Florida AG says that FSU would have to pay half a billion dollars to withdraw from the ACC. That simply is not true. They would have to pay somewhere around $130 million to withdraw. If they want to purchase the broadcast rights back, that is a separate thing. FSU signed the copyrights to their broadcasts over to the ACC. It is simply a commercial transaction to get those rights back. They could try to negotiate the rights back while still being a member of the ACC, or after leaving the ACC. There is no set value of $370 million that those rights must be sold for. The ACC could decide to give them back at no charge, or they could decide not to sell them at any price. The ACC owns the rights, period. Just like an antique car, the owner can negotiate a sales price, or decide they would rather keep the property and not sell. FSU's lawyers and the Florida are doing what lawyers are paid to do. They are advocating. Watch some YouTube court videos. You will see defense lawyers arguing for bail discussing lifelong ties to the community, public service performed by the defendant, etc. If all you hear is the defense attorney, you would believe that the defendant obviously should be released on his on recognizance pending trial. However, if you hear that he was caught on bodycam by police officers in bad situations with minors in the back of his place of business, none of the strong arguments that the defense attorney made will matter. Good lawyers are very good at phrasing things, and including only points that support their client's interest. If you read the phrasing from FSU, or the Florida AG, or even the ACC and simply believe what they say then you will have the wool easily pulled over your eyes.

 

[RonJohn]

The ACC BOT is made up of ACC member school reps. Every member was a part of the extension decision.

I think he was referring to the extension of the deadline to elect whatever option ESPN has to excercise, not the extension of the GOR and ESPN contract.

 

[tmhunter52]

What is the current record for the number of pages on a topic on GTSwarm?

 

[LT 1967]

I count 12 states:

Florida
Georgia
South Carolina
North Carolina
Virginia
Kentucky
Pennyslvania
New York
Massachusetts
Indiana
California
Texas

In my analysis, I was using current membership until July1 (CAL and SMU) and Aug. 2 (Stanford). when the new members officially join. Currently, there are 10 states as your list shows, nine Other than Florida.

I am just puzzled as to why the Florida AG would only alert six of the nine other AGs rather than all AGs in the nine other states. Makes me think there is some reason 3 were left out. Since the new members cannot vote, I understand that they would not be included.

 

[orientalnc]

Six, other than Florida, with public universities (prior to the expansion.)

 

[iceeater1969]

What is the current record for the number of pages on a topic on GTSwarm?

Let's Go Brad Stewart!

 

[LT 1967]

Six, other than Florida, with public universities (prior to the expansion.)

I am sure you have answered my suspicion that something behind the scenes was going on. I assumed that the Florida AG would send every state AG in the ACC an alert even if the State had only a private school like BC or Syracuse, perhaps as a courtesy even though the State AG might not involve themselves directly with a Private School. Some further investigation confirms that is not likely.

 

[Jacket4Life]

This is one of the best videos I have watched so far that explains what is going on.

 

[roadkill]

This is one of the best videos I have watched so far that explains what is going on.

A good listen (to an actual lawyer), and confirms what a lot of us have been saying - that the ACC has a strong case. He does hedge things with the caveat that there is always a chance of "judicial activism", that is, a judge who ignores the law and precedent.
Just as interesting is his reference to David McKenzie, who he states is not just a lawyer but one who specializes in IP law. David McKenzies's twitter has several takes on the situation. This one points out that the Statute of limitations has passed for FSU to challenge the GOR. He's saying that alone should cripple FSU's case.

 

[LT 1967]

The ACC Annual meeting at Amelia Island will be June 6-9. The ACC has filed for an Injunction to not allow FSU participation in ACC's management. I am not sure if a similar Injunction was requested for Clemson or not. I wander if there will be a ruling on the Injunction prior to the meeting. If the court doesn't rule on this before the meeting, it will be pretty awkward for everyone if the FSU and Clemson ADs show up. May be an exciting 3 days on Amelia Island.

 

[orientalnc]

The ACC Annual meeting at Amelia Island will be June 6-9. The ACC has filed for an Injunction to not allow FSU participation in ACC's management. I am not sure if a similar Injunction was requested for Clemson or not. I wander if there will be a ruling on the Injunction prior to the meeting. If the court doesn't rule on this before the meeting, it will be pretty awkward for everyone if the FSU and Clemson ADs show up. May be an exciting 3 days on Amelia Island.

Awkward indeed.

 

[Randy Carson]

I grew up in North Carolina, I sailed with the Pilot in my youth, and I'm ACC to the bone. But I'm tired of the bickering, the speculation, and the uncertainty of where Tech will land in conference realignment.

The writing is on the wall (and the contracts). The ACC will not survive with the same degree of prestige as we have known it. The money men have sealed its fate.

Enough already. I want the band-aid ripped off quickly so that we can begin adjusting to the new normal.

Now get off my lawn.

 

[Techster]

The ACC Annual meeting at Amelia Island will be June 6-9. The ACC has filed for an Injunction to not allow FSU participation in ACC's management. I am not sure if a similar Injunction was requested for Clemson or not. I wander if there will be a ruling on the Injunction prior to the meeting. If the court doesn't rule on this before the meeting, it will be pretty awkward for everyone if the FSU and Clemson ADs show up. May be an exciting 3 days on Amelia Island.

I speculated earlier in this thread that one of FSU's strategies for leaving the ACC is making the relationship so untenable that the ACC schools will eventually vote to let them buy their way out of the conference earlier than 2036 (or whatever ESPN decides to do with the ACC). Telling FSU to stay home during ACC meetings (ironically, in FSU's home state) is probably "according to plan" for FSU.

Even if the ESPN unilateral option is true, and ESPN decides to renew to 2036, I still don't think FSU makes it to the end of 2036. At some point, the buyout amount for FSU to leave will make sense to the ACC let FSU (and whichever other school) go. It's the same that happened with Texas + Oklahoma and the Big 12, though the Big 12 media deals were closer to expiration than what's going on with the ACC. AT some point, the amount of money the ACC receives from the FSU buyout will exceed the financial benefit of keeping FSU (and whichever other school) in the ACC. IMO, it's probably somewhere in 2028-2030.

 

[HurricaneJacket]

The gist I have seen is that the ACC lawyers aren’t distinguishing themselves, but the FSU lawyers haven’t accomplished much either.

The ACC lawyers failed in their attempt to get the case moved or stayed, but both are still under consideration. FSU’s lawyers are getting an opportunity to refile. Both sides are getting a chance to fight another day in Florida. According to the judge, no one won today

Billable hours won

 

[HurricaneJacket]

Given the reality of D1, this at least gives the G5 schools a championship they can aim for. Today it's a "nobody cares" bowl game.

It may also limit the bleeding of G5 talent in the portal because they can stay home and play for championships instead of jumping up to mid tier p5

 

[HurricaneJacket]

I guess that is one way to look at it. However, I think you are missing what the GOR document says, and what that means. FSU assigned their rights to the copyrights of their sports broadcasts to the ACC. In copyright speak, they gave those rights to the ACC. The ACC now owns those rights outright. FSU does not own the rights at all. The negotiations with ESPN were for the benefit of the owner of the copyrights (the ACC), not the benefit of the individual schools who gave away all rights to their game broadcasts. In other words, the ACC negotiated with ESPN for the benefit of the ACC, not the benefit of FSU. The ACC is not acting as a "middle-man". The ACC is the entity that owns the broadcast rights to those sports events.

You can make an argument that FSU is a member of the ACC, so any contract that it engages in should be public information. Consider what would happen if the Florida AG were to join an organization of domestic abuse protection lawyers. Would that mean that all of the documents of that organization would become public, just because a Florida official was a member?

You can make the argument that you are making in court, and that is what the Florida AG is doing. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm not convinced that she will win that argument. It will be an interesting legal case. I also think there is a decent chance that ESPN, or the ACC will try to have his lawsuit moved to federal court.

In an earlier post you said that you aren't sure what FSU's play here is. I have been saying that for a long time. FSU is putting pressure on ESPN, and I don't believe that the Florida AG is acting solely on her own. Is ESPN going to be eager to have FSU in the SEC? Is ESPN going to be concerned that as soon as FSU isn't happy about something that they will attempt to make the SEC-ESPN contract public? Are Fox, NBC, and CBS going to be eager to have FSU in the Big10, for the same reasons? FSU is burning so many bridges that they might end up as an island.

From the FL AG perspective could they see this as part of the State's ongoing fueding with Disney?

 

[iceeater1969]

The ACC Annual meeting at Amelia Island will be June 6-9. The ACC has filed for an Injunction to not allow FSU participation in ACC's management. I am not sure if a similar Injunction was requested for Clemson or not. I wander if there will be a ruling on the Injunction prior to the meeting. If the court doesn't rule on this before the meeting, it will be pretty awkward for everyone if the FSU and Clemson ADs show up. May be an exciting 3 days on Amelia Island.

You seem to have info on the meeting. Will they have meeting with ESPN in all, some, none of the events? Do the college prez come.?
In oil gas conferences we got alot of things worked out in side bar meetings.

 

[TechPhi97]

There could be some type of "power of attorney" agreement, then there's also consent given by each school for the ACC to arbitrate for everyone, but the final agreement that comes out of arbitration must be approved and signed by each school. There are legal ways around it to expedite the process and save each school a lot of money.

Agreed. A mediator cannot impose a solution.

What could happen, and may, is the FSU reps in the mediation come back to the judge and say the ACC is not willing to talk about anything except getting 100% of their ask. In that case the judge could admonish the ACC to negotiate in good faith, but he cannot force the ACC, in mediation, to agree with FSU on any aspect of the dispute. He could rule against the ACC on the merits, but that is immediately appealable.

If this is a race to judgement, FSU just lost if the NC case proceeds quickly toward a decision.

What I think FSU wants is for 2025 to edge closer to the court's decision point and ESPN begins getting edgy about its relationship with the ACC. They hope the poobahs at ESPN will tell the poobahs at the ACC that this is not going well and negotiation with FSU on exit terms is mandatory if the network is going to continue broadcasting ACC games. They hope ESPN will direct a solution that allows FSU and Clemson to leave in exchange for ESPN continuing with the current media agreement with the ACC.

That sounds dangerously close to illegal, IMHO. At least breach of contract, with the goal to enrich themselves by breaking up the ACC.

 

[TechPhi97]

don’t underestimate their desperation to get out of the ACC, they would probably be willing to take partial payouts equal to what they get now from the ACC contract until the next SEc contract is negotiated.

ESPN could just improve our deal.

 

[WreckinGT]

That sounds dangerously close to illegal, IMHO. At least breach of contract, with the goal to enrich themselves by breaking up the ACC.

You gonna sue the mouse?