Conference Realignment

[CEB]

Yeah it’ll about like the bidding war for the PAC rights- the ACC will splinter apart as the good teams make deals behind the scenes to leave while throwing monkey wrenches into the ACC negotiations

There is a big difference here… the PAC had an expired (or very quickly expiring) GOR at the time of those negotiations. Members were free to go when they didn’t like the direction of negotiations.

The ACC GOR will still be in force in ‘27 and has pretty strong language regarding member obligations (at least the 2013 version we can see, which is reportedly identical in language to the current). One of which is actively defending the enforceability of GOR, much less attacking it.

If FSU (or anyone else) thinks the exit fee and the repurchase of media rights are costly, wait until they actively subvert the ACC’s rights to extend / pursue a multi billion dollar deal…

Your PAC 12 example is certainly analogous to what will come as 2036 approaches, but sabotaging deals in 2027 isn’t a wise strategy IMO.

 

[UgaBlows]

There is a big difference here… the PAC had an expired (or very quickly expiring) GOR at the time of those negotiations. Members were free to go when they didn’t like the direction of negotiations.

The ACC GOR will still be in force in ‘27 and has pretty strong language regarding member obligations (at least the 2013 version we can see, which is reportedly identical in language to the current). One of which is actively defending the enforceability of GOR, much less attacking it.

If FSU (or anyone else) thinks the exit fee and the repurchase of media rights are costly, wait until they actively subvert the ACC’s rights to extend / pursue a multi billion dollar deal…

Your PAC 12 example is certainly analogous to what will come as 2036 approaches, but sabotaging deals in 2027 isn’t a wise strategy IMO.

I think they (FSU, Clem, UNC etc) could torpedo the process without being overly overt, and they would be within their rights to refuse to sign a lessor tv contract. If the tv contract with espn is not renewed and the members can’t (or won’t) agree on a new one then the ACC will eventually fall apart (members voting to disband) and the GOR will not matter anymore.

 

[CEB]

I think they (FSU, Clem, UNC etc) could torpedo the process without being overly overt, and they would be within their rights to refuse to sign a lessor tv contract. If the tv contract with espn is not renewed and the members can’t (or won’t) agree on a new one then the ACC will eventually fall apart (members voting to disband) and the GOR will not matter anymore.

What you are describing would take place in a HEAVY negotiation, if not outright court battle.

Also, it IS NOT within the rights of FSU or Clemson or anyone who is party to the GOR to either sign or refuse to sign any contract… better or worse. They have no rights to their media until 2036, so the contract to be signed is at the discretion of the ACC, who controls those media rights… NOT the individual members.

For a time, I had also convinced myself that IF the option described by FSU is correct, and IF ESPN indeed decided to reject it, the GOR could be challenged because of it’s multiple references to the “ESPN Agreement.” I reread the GOR again today and I no longer believe that.

There are absolutely multiple references to the “ESPN Agreement” in the GOR, but all of them seem to be illustrative of the access / participation required by each member institution. There is absolutely zero ambiguity in the paragraph regarding “Term” of the GOR, and that paragraph makes no reference at all to the “ESPN Agreement.” It states a date certain in 2036 (again, assuming the current GOR is the same as the 2013 version we have all seen)

 

[forensicbuzz]

I think they (FSU, Clem, UNC etc) could torpedo the process without being overly overt, and they would be within their rights to refuse to sign a lessor tv contract. If the tv contract with espn is not renewed and the members can’t (or won’t) agree on a new one then the ACC will eventually fall apart (members voting to disband) and the GOR will not matter anymore.

The member schools don't sign the media contract. They've given those rights to negotiate and sign to the conference. The ACC will negotiate and sign. The schools have no say in the matter at this point, as long as the conference is acting in the best interest of the conference members.

 

[MountainBuzzMan]

@CEB Thanks for clearing that up. Hopefully others will be openminded to realize what you are describing is by far the most likely path and have nothing to do with how much FSU or even a few others decided to throw a hissy fit

 

[RonJohn]

What you are describing would take place in a HEAVY negotiation, if not outright court battle.

Also, it IS NOT within the rights of FSU or Clemson or anyone who is party to the GOR to either sign or refuse to sign any contract… better or worse. They have no rights to their media until 2036, so the contract to be signed is at the discretion of the ACC, who controls those media rights… NOT the individual members.

For a time, I had also convinced myself that IF the option described by FSU is correct, and IF ESPN indeed decided to reject it, the GOR could be challenged because of it’s multiple references to the “ESPN Agreement.” I reread the GOR again today and I no longer believe that.

There are absolutely multiple references to the “ESPN Agreement” in the GOR, but all of them seem to be illustrative of the access / participation required by each member institution. There is absolutely zero ambiguity in the paragraph regarding “Term” of the GOR, and that paragraph makes no reference at all to the “ESPN Agreement.” It states a date certain in 2036 (again, assuming the current GOR is the same as the 2013 version we have all seen)

I have said before that I think it can be argued that the "ESPN Agreement" is necessary to sustain the GOR. The term of the agreement might not be ambiguous, but the "rights" "granted" are. In paragraph 1, grants "all rights .. necessary for the Conference to perform the contractual obligations of the Conference expressly set forth in the ESPN Agreement". The term might be until 2036, but I think there is an argument over the wording about what media rights are actually granted if there isn't an ESPN Agreement. I would not argue strongly either way, because the words could mean either depending on what takes precedent. I would have to get a contract lawyer to review it and give me his interpretation, but I think if you asked different lawyers they would have different opinions.

It would probably have to be settled in court. But that is only IF there actually is an option to completely drop the ACC contract, and IF ESPN actually dropped it. I am not convinced yet that there is that option. I also would find it odd if ESPN did drop the ACC contract. Reports have been that the ACC is more profitable for ESPN than the SEC because of the discount they have for the ACC.

 

[Oldgoldandwhite]

If you’re in a major conference, you have a much better chance to be in the playoffs, with less competition. If FSU wants to pay us a bunch, I would have my hand out with the other waving by.

 

[CEB]

I have said before that I think it can be argued that the "ESPN Agreement" is necessary to sustain the GOR. The term of the agreement might not be ambiguous, but the "rights" "granted" are. In paragraph 1, grants "all rights .. necessary for the Conference to perform the contractual obligations of the Conference expressly set forth in the ESPN Agreement". The term might be until 2036, but I think there is an argument over the wording about what media rights are actually granted if there isn't an ESPN Agreement. I would not argue strongly either way, because the words could mean either depending on what takes precedent. I would have to get a contract lawyer to review it and give me his interpretation, but I think if you asked different lawyers they would have different opinions.

It would probably have to be settled in court. But that is only IF there actually is an option to completely drop the ACC contract, and IF ESPN actually dropped it. I am not convinced yet that there is that option. I also would find it odd if ESPN did drop the ACC contract. Reports have been that the ACC is more profitable for ESPN than the SEC because of the discount they have for the ACC.

I absolutely agree that it can be argued. IF there is an option, and if that option is refused, and if that refusal consequently dissolves the agreement with ESPN, it will almost definitely be argued.

I also agree that there would be a lot of different legal opinions on that… at least as many opinions as attorneys who think they can get paid for arguing it.

I recognize that I used the phrase “cant be challenged” in my previous post… probably not a good wording. It would be more accurate to say I don’t think it’s a strong position to challenge. Of course, anyone can argue anything regardless of how strong and sound their argument is.

 

[iceeater1969]

I absolutely agree that it can be argued. IF there is an option, and if that option is refused, and if that refusal consequently dissolves the agreement with ESPN, it will almost definitely be argued.

I also agree that there would be a lot of different legal opinions on that… at least as many opinions as attorneys who think they can get paid for arguing it.

I recognize that I used the phrase “cant be challenged” in my previous post… probably not a good wording. It would be more accurate to say I don’t think it’s a strong position to challenge. Of course, anyone can argue anything regardless of how strong and sound their argument is.

The legal agreements written at the start of the acc tv contract have worked well. They put organizations together and a solid product was put on tv.

As we reach the term of the contracts, the future economics will be more important. The contract will assist in negotiating the exit ramps for each participant.

Maybe we will have a few go to sec and b1g - they pay $$.

a few take some big $ and drop footbal.

maybe the rest form 32 team east west that captures the major tv markets, to compte head to head with sec and b1g. Got to think advdrtisers see lots of upside in major markets.

There will be rumors of lawsuits, but all the while the lawyers will be drawing up new agreements. Then we start as good friends with new contracts. Its just business

 

[stinger78]

The legal agreements written at the start of the acc tv contract have worked well. They put organizations together and a solid product was put on tv.

As we reach the term of the contracts, the future economics will be more important. The contract will assist in negotiating the exit ramps for each participant.

Maybe we will have a few go to sec and b1g - they pay $$.

a few take some big $ and drop footbal.

maybe the rest form 32 team east west that captures the major tv markets, to compte head to head with sec and b1g. Got to think advdrtisers see lots of upside in major markets.

There will be rumors of lawsuits, but all the while the lawyers will be drawing up new agreements. Then we start as good friends with new contracts. Its just business

Wouldn’t be surprised to see this happen. Probably more so a cooperative between the two to offer an inter-conference game each year between all teams. That’s 16 more marketable games on both schedules.

 

[CEB]

The legal agreements written at the start of the acc tv contract have worked well. They put organizations together and a solid product was put on tv.

As we reach the term of the contracts, the future economics will be more important. The contract will assist in negotiating the exit ramps for each participant.

Maybe we will have a few go to sec and b1g - they pay $$.

a few take some big $ and drop footbal.

maybe the rest form 32 team east west that captures the major tv markets, to compte head to head with sec and b1g. Got to think advdrtisers see lots of upside in major markets.

There will be rumors of lawsuits, but all the while the lawyers will be drawing up new agreements. Then we start as good friends with new contracts. Its just business

I’d be surprised if any take money and drop football. Maybe, but I doubt. G5 football obviously still makes sense and I suspect it would make sense even for P5 schools that get “relegated”

I could also see a #3 conference emerge from B12 and ACC remnants, which could be a pretty compelling league. I think the next move will be more of a separation of big time NIL vs the rest of CFB and I’m not convinced it will happen along conference lines. I think that’s how “P3” emerges and maybe the remaining “P4” ends up looking more like “G6.”

 

[GTrob21]

The ACC will be the new Big EAST, as long as ND has a pathway to be independent and a home for their non-football sports, they will park them in the ACC. GT is not a P2 school. We have done this to ourselves, we don't have the money or the fan support. I think there will be a combining of the B12 and ACC at somepoint to maximize dollars, reduce travel expenses and increase exposure. So for the B12/ACC, I think it will be regional 7-8 teams in a pod, maybe 3 to 4 pods, and GT will be in the southern group with teams like Duke, Wake, NC State, etc.

I think Clemson and FSU go to SEC, and Miami/UNC/Virginia/ got to B1G.

 

[CEB]

The ACC will be the new Big EAST, as long as ND has a pathway to be independent and a home for their non-football sports, they will park them in the ACC. GT is not a P2 school. We have done this to ourselves, we don't have the money or the fan support. I think there will be a combining of the B12 and ACC at somepoint to maximize dollars, reduce travel expenses and increase exposure. So for the B12/ACC, I think it will be regional 7-8 teams in a pod, maybe 3 to 4 pods, and GT will be in the southern group with teams like Duke, Wake, NC State, etc.

I think Clemson and FSU go to SEC, and Miami/UNC/Virginia/ got to B1G.

Judging by the NCAAT selections, I think I would be OK calling the new conference “Big 12.”

 

[GTpdm]

Of course, anyone can argue anything regardless of how strong and sound their argument is.

Really? I've never seen that here on GTSwarm...

 

[stinger78]

Open question: Given the current B12 and ACC are both about 16-18 teams, and the S-curve that defines marginal utility, how many of those 35 or so current B12-ACC teams can really be profitably poached by the Cartel, and how many programs will be “left behind?”

I submit that there will be many, probably more than 30, programs left behind that have long and successful legacies in CFB.

 

[slugboy]

Clemson files their own suit.

The short version of the complaint is “the contract does what we thought it did when we signed it, but we don’t like it now”

https://publicindex.sccourts.org/Pickens/PublicIndex/PIImageDisplay.aspx?ctagency=39002&doctype=D&docid=1710857683689-904&HKey=667489107117108103658848118665252837911910412012298107118835370551161098567100474889668984741061204977

If this is a hoax, they fished me in, good. They filed in their home county, South Carolina

 

[Techwood Relict]

Really? I've never seen that here on GTSwarm...

 

[orientalnc]

Clemson files their own suit.

The short version of the complaint is “the contract does what we thought it did when we signed it, but we don’t like it now”

https://publicindex.sccourts.org/Pickens/PublicIndex/PIImageDisplay.aspx?ctagency=39002&doctype=D&docid=1710857683689-904&HKey=667489107117108103658848118665252837911910412012298107118835370551161098567100474889668984741061204977

If this is a hoax, they fished me in, good. They filed in their home county, South Carolina

The law firm is real. It's a huge Columbia based firm of about 1000 lawyers.

 

[UgaBlows]

The ACC will be the new Big EAST, as long as ND has a pathway to be independent and a home for their non-football sports, they will park them in the ACC. GT is not a P2 school. We have done this to ourselves, we don't have the money or the fan support. I think there will be a combining of the B12 and ACC at somepoint to maximize dollars, reduce travel expenses and increase exposure. So for the B12/ACC, I think it will be regional 7-8 teams in a pod, maybe 3 to 4 pods, and GT will be in the southern group with teams like Duke, Wake, NC State, etc.

I think Clemson and FSU go to SEC, and Miami/UNC/Virginia/ got to B1G.

Why UVA and not us too? We have a better and bigger tv market, better football past and present, better tv numbers, and similar game attendance numbers.

 

[bennyjacket]

Sadly I think GT has been cornered into a position where the ACC surviving is our only shot at staying relevant. We need the ACC GoR to not be broken until we establish a better position, which is not happening anytime soon.