Conference Realignment

[eetech]

Courtesy of the Minneapolis Star Tribune, the Twin Cities equivalent of AJC, here's the write-up as understood now...

B1G deal: Big Ten lands $7 billion, NFL-style TV contracts​

By RALPH D. RUSSO Associated Press

The Big Ten's new $7 billion media rights deal will string the conference's top football games across three major networks each week, creating an NFL-style television schedule on Saturdays.

The Big Ten announced Thursday it has reached seven-year agreements with Fox, CBS and NBC to share the rights to the conference's football and basketball games.

The deals go into effect in 2023, expire in 2030 and eventually will allow the conference's soon-to-be 16 member universities to share more than $1 billion per year, a person familiar with the terms told The Associated Press.

The person spoke to the AP on condition of anonymity because Big Ten and network officials were not disclosing financial details publicly, but the deal is believed to be the richest ever on an annual basis for a college sports property. The large increase in revenue to the conference won't kick in until the third year of the deal and gradually will increase over the final five years.

"I think what it does, it affords us the opportunity to make sure that we can continually do the things we need to do to take care of our student-athletes, to fortify our institutions, to build our programs," Big Ten Commissioner Kevin Warren told the AP.

The Big Ten currently has 14 members, stretching from Rutgers and Maryland on the East Coast to Nebraska across the Midwest, and covering some of the biggest media markets in the country, including New York, Philadelphia and Chicago.

In 2024, Southern California and UCLA are scheduled to join the Big Ten, adding the Los Angeles market to its footprint.

With ESPN out of the equation for Big Ten football after a 40-year relationship, the league is set to lock down three prominent time slots with its network partners.

Fox, which has shared the rights to the Big Ten with ESPN since 2017 and owns a majority stake in the Big Ten Network, will continue to feature noon Eastern time as its primary game of the day.

Fox and its cable network FS1 will have the rights to more than two dozen football games, at least 45 men's basketball games and women's basketball games.

CBS, starting in 2024, will replace the Southeastern Conference game of the week at 3:30 p.m. Eastern — that is moving to ABC — with a Big Ten game.

CBS will carry 14-15 Big Ten football games a season from 2024-29, including a Black Friday game. Unlike with its longtime SEC deal, CBS will not be guaranteed the first selection of football games each week with the Big Ten. Fox, CBS and NBC will hold a draft for games, allowing each network some opportunities for first selection in a given week.

In 2023, CBS will carry seven Big Ten games while it still has the SEC on CBS at 3:30 p.m. Eastern. The network will continue to be the home of Big Ten men's basketball, including the conference tournament semifinals and finals, and it will begin airing the women's basketball tournament championship.

"When we did our financial analysis, and looked at the major markets — even before USC and UCLA — and the national footprint of the Big Ten, it was a very attractive deal for us," said Sean McManus, chairman of CBS Sports. "And I think the money is fair. It's unprecedented. They're the largest deals in the history of college football."

Starting in 2023, NBC will launch "Big Ten Saturday Night" in prime time and broadcast 15-16 games per season. The agreement with NBC also includes eight football games and dozens of men's and women's basketball games per season to be exclusively streamed on Peacock, the network's online subscription service. NBC also has a separate, longstanding broadcast deal with Notre Dame, which remains unaffiliated with a conference.

Each network will air the Big Ten's championship football game at least once during the length of the deals, with Fox securing the rights to four (2023, '25, '27 and '29).

Warren spent more than two decades working as an executive in the front office of three NFL teams. He said the Big Ten's vision for its new broadcast deal was modeled after an NFL Sunday, with three consecutive marquee games across three different networks, airing from noon to nearly midnight Eastern.

"I just thought where we were in the Big Ten, we had a very unique opportunity because we have the institutions that could do it," Warren said. "We have the fan avidity. We have the breadth, we have the historical foundation, that we were in a position to really do something unique with three powerful brands in Fox, CBS and NBC."

The Big Ten's alignment with three traditional networks shows that while streaming might be the future, linear television is not dead.

"It may be dying in certain aspects. You could say things like scripted dramas. Sitcoms. But for sports and news, it's never been stronger," retired former president Fox Sports Network Bob Thompson said.

"The conferences or leagues are a little reticent to make that big of a jump from the wide, wide distribution of broadcast television," he added. "Now you're going to jump to the streaming service, which in the big scheme of things, the numbers are still relatively small in terms of how many people watch and use them."

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Probably the biggest thing as a B1G fan is that most games are now on the Big Ten Network, and while BTN is available from cable, satellite, or streaming, there's a chunk of potential fans that just don't go to the trouble. Whereas the NFL's really focusing on the dinosaur networks, it still pretty much manages almost universal access. This new deal in the end will help me to recruit more Gopher fans here locally 'cuz at least they can choose to tune in from time to time without BTN.

Really hard to know at this point how this might fit into further expansion. However, now 2030 looks like the next important revenue marker for what that's worth.

Meanwhile really getting excited for the real thing starting 2 weeks from today for us. Ironically, we open with New Mexico State that is coached by Jerry Kill, who used to be our coach. He left us for health reasons and his DC was our HC for 1.5 seasons before getting canned for PJ Fleck to be hired. Some bad blood out there on all this. Still, kickoff season is literally around the corner.

Good luck on the season. Billd.

The biggest thing this deal g

While what you are saying is true (Tennessee is an even better example in the SEC) there is a direct correlation between cash rich schools and football success. Of the 2021 final top 10, 8 were schools that spend big on football. Cincinnati and Baylor were the odd men out in that group. If our goal is to just be "relevant" and relevant means an occasional top 25 end of year ranking, then money is not needed. If our goal is to chase playoff berths, then we need to figure out the money, because Cincy is the only school so far to make the playoff without massive spending.

Also, how many of those years included NIL in non pandemic years?

NIL guarantees that more money = success. At least more success than teams with less money.

 

[CEB]

This is only really true if the Big 10 and SEC eventually become the Power 2 and other conferences get relegated to what is now G5 status. That will affect a number of things. As long as the ACC has a seat at the big boys table the TV money isn't terribly relevant. Now, our other sources of income, yeah, that's a problem. Frankly, with NIL, I think TV deals are even less meaningful.

I agree... to an extent. If the playoff is set up to give several conference champs a spot, anything can happen. Winning two or three in a row against teams with $20m in coaching salaries and payrolls that rival the Yankees however....

 

[JacketOff]

I agree with pretty much all of this - more money can help to a point, but does not necessarily equal success. The difference in resources becomes more negligible when it's say $100m vs $125m instead of $50m vs $25m, so I see why people want to push for the Big membership, I just don't think it ensures the outcomes they might hope for. I think the bigger issue is what happens with games between different conferences, where there is now such a drastic difference financially that it's really a David vs Goliath situation, ie GT vs uga. It seems to me the only other solution besides chasing the money and hoping for success, is to accept that those games are highly imbalanced and stop playing them. Stick to playing teams in our conference and with similar or worse financials, ie Big 12, Pac 12, or G5 teams and seek being successful, instead of constantly looking for the bigger payday.

And schools are going to continue to chase the big payday, because the ones in charge are the only ones who really ever see that money. AD’s, school presidents, head coaches, other administrators. They couldn’t care less about what actually happens on the field or how the fans feel. As long as they can keep pushing the narrative that dumping tens of millions of dollars into programs that consistently lose and have no real chance of competing for a championship is the best way forward, they’ll be ok.

But it helps with facilities and coaching salaries. Think about what an extra 30MM per year could mean to the type of salary you could offer today to head coaches and assistants. Right now our overall salaries limit our choices.

When everyone else also has an extra $30M it makes it a moot point. The teams that win are going to pay their coaches increasingly large salaries upwards of $10M currently, and will probably grow to $15-20M (ie Georgia, Alabama, Ohio State, Clemson, etc). Those coaches dictate market level, so schools that are trying to convince everyone they can win at that level too are going to continue to pay mediocre coaches like Steve Sarkisian $7M and Mel Tucker $10M to give the illusion they’re ready to compete at that level. In reality there’s only a handful of truly elite coaches and staffs to go around. Just because you pay a mediocre coach a top tier salary doesn’t mean he will turn into a top tier coach. He’ll still be mediocre, he’ll just be a lot richer.

 

[link3945]

It's clear that money is a necessary but not sufficient condition for success. You can compete occasionally with a team making about 20% more than you, but you can't compete long-term against a team that makes double you're budget, especially when that advantage compounds.

 

[ChicagobasedJacket]

According to that composite GT is 5th in the ACC in talent and 8th in the B10. So on a relative basis GT would be in a weaker position in the B10 in terms of talent than it is in the ACC. Keep in mind that that same composite has Nebraska with more talent than GT and look how they are doing.

Okay, I stand corrected. We would be sixth in the B10 and 5th in the ACC - https://247sports.com/Season/2021-Football/CollegeTeamTalentComposite/

I still think GT would face less talented teams and fare better in the B1G. Right now, we are getting money whipped. We are already 20 mil/yr behind in conference payouts with the SEC and B10 schools. That’s only going to grow.

 

[stinger 1957]

Just watched something on YouTube indicating that the Big 10 is not done on expansion out west, that the new TV deals are open ended on the money part for expansion over the next few yrs up to 20 teams. The open ended money was up to 1.4-1.5 billion, which would indicate approx. 75 million per school. Nothing mentioned about Big 10 coming east or south in their current planned expansion.
Saw where Kirk Herbstreet (at another time) said he thought we end up with 3 big conferences, I guess meaning Big 10, SEC, and some sort of combo out of the remainders which includes the ACC I guess.
I have no idea whether all this holds water or not, just reporting what I've seen.
If true about a western division sort of in the Big 10, helps with lesser long distance travel for the western teams and adds the number 6 media mkt to the BIGs already 1-4 media mkts. giving them 6 out of 7 top media mkts. Ain't bad for a few months work.
If true, where does the SEC go for good media mkts? Looks to me like there's not a lot left for them. They could try and get South FL with Miami and the state of NC encompasses several mkts added together, Raleigh-Durham, High point/Greensboro, Charlotte combined are really good, UVA does not have a lot of following I've heard in the DC/Baltimore mkts, appears if all this plays out the BIG 10 wins this war. They will be following what the NFL has done, media mkts seems to be the deal for them. I always thought it was interesting that the St Louis Rams and the Chargers moved to the 2nd largest media mkt, yes I know in effect Rams were coming home, but I'm guessing it had a lot more to do with the 2nd biggest media mkt. That is appearing more and more to be the driving force behind where the BIG 10 believes you need to go.
Seems this story could still be alive for a while, we'll see.

 

[Pointer]

This is only really true if the Big 10 and SEC eventually become the Power 2 and other conferences get relegated to what is now G5 status. That will affect a number of things. As long as the ACC has a seat at the big boys table the TV money isn't terribly relevant. Now, our other sources of income, yeah, that's a problem. Frankly, with NIL, I think TV deals are even less meaningful.

What is to stop a school from the big 10 from "hiring" a booster to a lucrative contract, who then pays players for "NIL" deals? You can hire the booster to fill whatever position you like within the athletic department.

One way that TV deals stay relevant with respect to NIL

 

[jacketup]

According to that composite GT is 5th in the ACC in talent and 8th in the B10. So on a relative basis GT would be in a weaker position in the B10 in terms of talent than it is in the ACC. Keep in mind that that same composite has Nebraska with more talent than GT and look how they are doing.

Which, if your offensive line is the 11th best in the ACC or B1G, makes a composite completely meaningless. Plus, the Rivals/247 crowd can measure offensive skill positions to some degree, but HS OL and DL kids who are still growing and don't have objective stats--not so much. So what was the point of your post?

 

[Techster]

As I've been saying all this time:



The contract includes an escalator clause, meaning the deal could approach nearly $10 billion if the Big Ten’s membership increases, network sources said. Even after adding USC and UCLA, the Big Ten “is not done” expanding, sources told Action Network.

Last month, Action Network reported the Big Ten would expand beyond 16 schools and was targeting Notre Dame, along with Oregon, Washington, Stanford and Cal from the Pac-12. Those plans have not changed, sources said this week.

Regardless of whether Notre Dame joins the Big Ten or remains independent, the league still wants to add more Pac-12 schools to help reduce potential travel concerns for USC and UCLA, sources said.

B1G has national ambitions. If not for the ACC's grant of rights, B1G would be targeting ACC schools as well.

The B1G is operating an an entirely different level now.

 

[JacketOff]

Okay, I stand corrected. We would be sixth in the B10 and 5th in the ACC - https://247sports.com/Season/2021-Football/CollegeTeamTalentComposite/

I still think GT would face less talented teams and fare better in the B1G. Right now, we are getting money whipped. We are already 20 mil/yr behind in conference payouts with the SEC and B10 schools. That’s only going to grow.

The ACC is 19-29 against the B1G since the latest round of expansion in 2014. Why on earth would you think GT would be playing less talented teams? Did you forget what happened the last time an average GT team player an average B1G team?

 

[eetech]

Just watched something on YouTube indicating that the Big 10 is not done on expansion out west, that the new TV deals are open ended on the money part for expansion over the next few yrs up to 20 teams. The open ended money was up to 1.4-1.5 billion, which would indicate approx. 75 million per school. Nothing mentioned about Big 10 coming east or south in their current planned expansion.
Saw where Kirk Herbstreet (at another time) said he thought we end up with 3 big conferences, I guess meaning Big 10, SEC, and some sort of combo out of the remainders which includes the ACC I guess.
I have no idea whether all this holds water or not, just reporting what I've seen.
If true about a western division sort of in the Big 10, helps with lesser long distance travel for the western teams and adds the number 6 media mkt to the BIGs already 1-4 media mkts. giving them 6 out of 7 top media mkts. Ain't bad for a few months work.
If true, where does the SEC go for good media mkts? Looks to me like there's not a lot left for them. They could try and get South FL with Miami and the state of NC encompasses several mkts added together, Raleigh-Durham, High point/Greensboro, Charlotte combined are really good, UVA does not have a lot of following I've heard in the DC/Baltimore mkts, appears if all this plays out the BIG 10 wins this war. They will be following what the NFL has done, media mkts seems to be the deal for them. I always thought it was interesting that the St Louis Rams and the Chargers moved to the 2nd largest media mkt, yes I know in effect Rams were coming home, but I'm guessing it had a lot more to do with the 2nd biggest media mkt. That is appearing more and more to be the driving force behind where the BIG 10 believes you need to go.
Seems this story could still be alive for a while, we'll see.

No one is talking about it and I’m not sure what Texas and Oklahoma have signed so far, but I wouldn’t be surprised if those 2 might not also come into play (or possibly A&M and Texas) for the B1G.

As I've been saying all this time:



The contract includes an escalator clause, meaning the deal could approach nearly $10 billion if the Big Ten’s membership increases, network sources said. Even after adding USC and UCLA, the Big Ten “is not done” expanding, sources told Action Network.

Last month, Action Network reported the Big Ten would expand beyond 16 schools and was targeting Notre Dame, along with Oregon, Washington, Stanford and Cal from the Pac-12. Those plans have not changed, sources said this week.

Regardless of whether Notre Dame joins the Big Ten or remains independent, the league still wants to add more Pac-12 schools to help reduce potential travel concerns for USC and UCLA, sources said.

B1G has national ambitions. If not for the ACC's grant of rights, B1G would be targeting ACC schools as well.

The B1G is operating an an entirely different level now.

This is beyond obvious. The B1G is gonna bring in massive state schools in the west that are worth more than the $75mm dollars by themselves. Every addition will increase their value and make them more contiguous.

The only real question for me is if they will make a play for Texas. UT almost certainly would much rather be with the B1G than the SEC. This goes without saying. The entire academic side, and the entire alumni/upper management side of UT would prefer that. And heck, I suspect the vast majority of purely football based supporters would also prefer that (this is where having USC in the B1G really comes into the picture…UT’s 2 decades of memories of football greatness are almost entirely tied with USC).

I think any SEC team if offered a chance to join the B1G with an option to join their academic programs would jump at the opportunity. Heck, even without the academic side the numbers are adding up in favor of the B1G.

I strongly believe the B1G will soon become a 24 team conference that includes Texas & Oklahoma/A&M, and another 2 PAC 12 schools to close out the west, and if the ACC GOR is defeated, UNC/VPI/Miami/(Clemson or GT) depending on what they value.

The B1G is aiming to be college football. Or, they should be.

I suspect the real endgame at that point would be to become a 32 team league after poaching 4-6 SEC teams and hopefully GT falls into the remaining 2-4 non SEC teams they poach to become a 32 team minor NFL league.

They have the edge on the SEC. This is how they should be thinking. The only question is that historically the SEC has pushed the boundaries and every other conference has reacted. Will the B1G continue that trend and react, in which case this won’t happen, or will they take the initiative and do much of the above, in which case bye bye SEC and CFB as we know it?

 

[forensicbuzz]

The ACC is 19-29 against the B1G since the latest round of expansion in 2014. Why on earth would you think GT would be playing less talented teams? Did you forget what happened the last time an average GT team player an average B1G team?

That record may be deceiving, depending on the match-ups. Also, you have to look at more than 1 game.

 

[bobongo]

That record may be deceiving, depending on the match-ups. Also, you have to look at more than 1 game.

Here is the complete record since 2014, ACC vs. B1G:

(N) 2021/12/31 Wake Forest 38 - Rutgers 10 W !! Gator Bowl !!
(N) 2021/12/30 Pittsburgh 21 - Michigan State 31 L !! Peach Bowl !!
(N) 2021/12/29 Virginia Tech 10 - Maryland 54 L !! Pinstripe Bowl !!

(H) 2021/09/18 Miami (FL) 17 - Michigan State 38 L
(H) 2021/09/18 Duke 30 - Northwestern 23 W

(H) 2021/09/11 Virginia 42 - Illinois 14 W
(H) 2021/09/11 Syracuse 7 - Rutgers 17 L
(N) 2021/01/01 Clemson 28 - Ohio State 49 L !! Sugar Bowl !!
(N) 2020/12/30 Wake Forest 28 - Wisconsin 42 L !! Duke's Mayo Bowl !!
(N) 2019/12/28 Clemson 29 - Ohio State 23 W !! Fiesta Bowl !!
(N) 2019/12/27 Wake Forest 21 - Michigan State 27 L !! Pinstripe Bowl !!
(A) 2019/09/21 Boston College 30 - Rutgers 16 W
(A) 2019/09/14 Pittsburgh 10 - Penn State 17 L
(A) 2019/09/07 Syracuse 20 - Maryland 63 L
(N) 2018/12/27 Miami (FL) 3 - Wisconsin 35 L !! Pinstripe Bowl !!
(N) 2018/12/26 Georgia Tech 10 - Minnesota 34 L !! Quick Lane Bowl !!
(A) 2018/09/22 Boston College 13 - Purdue 30 L
(A) 2018/09/08 Duke 21 - Northwestern 7 W
(H) 2018/09/08 Pittsburgh 6 - Penn State 51 L
(A) 2018/09/08 Virginia 16 - Indiana 20 L
(H) 2017/12/30 Miami (FL) 24 - Wisconsin 34 L !! Orange Bowl !!
(N) 2017/12/27 Boston College 20 - Iowa 27 L !! Pinstripe Bowl !!
(H) 2017/09/09 Virginia 17 - Indiana 34 L
(H) 2017/09/09 Duke 41 - Northwestern 17 W
(A) 2017/09/09 Pittsburgh 14 - Penn State 33 L
(N) 2017/09/02 Louisville 35 - Purdue 28 W
(N) 2016/12/31 Clemson 31 - Ohio State 0 W !! Fiesta Bowl !!
(N) 2016/12/30 Florida State 33 - Michigan 32 W !! Orange Bowl !!
(N) 2016/12/28 Pittsburgh 24 - Northwestern 31 L !! Pinstripe Bowl !!
(N) 2016/12/26 Boston College 36 - Maryland 30 W !! Quick Lane Bowl !!
(A) 2016/09/24 Wake Forest 33 - Indiana 28 W
(A) 2016/09/17 Duke 13 - Northwestern 24 L
(A) 2016/09/10 North Carolina 48 - Illinois 23 W
(H) 2016/09/10 Pittsburgh 42 - Penn State 39 W
(N) 2015/12/26 Duke 44 - Indiana 41 W OT !! Pinstripe Bowl !!
(H) 2015/09/26 Wake Forest 24 - Indiana 31 L
(H) 2015/09/19 North Carolina 48 - Illinois 14 W
(H) 2015/09/19 Miami (FL) 36 - Nebraska 33 W OT
(H) 2015/09/19 Duke 10 - Northwestern 19 L
(A) 2015/09/19 Pittsburgh 24 - Iowa 27 L
(A) 2015/09/19 Virginia Tech 51 - Purdue 24 W
(H) 2015/09/07 Virginia Tech 24 - Ohio State 42 L
(N) 2014/12/27 Boston College 30 - Penn State 31 L OT !! Pinstripe Bowl !!
(N) 2014/12/26 North Carolina 21 - Rutgers 40 L !! Quick Lane Bowl !!
(H) 2014/09/20 Pittsburgh 20 - Iowa 24 L
(H) 2014/09/20 Syracuse 20 - Maryland 34 L
(A) 2014/09/20 Miami (FL) 31 - Nebraska 41 L
(A) 2014/09/06 Virginia Tech 35 - Ohio State 21 W

 

[forensicbuzz]

Here is the complete record since 2014, ACC vs. B1G: (minus bowl games)


(H) 2021/09/18 Miami (FL) 17 - Michigan State 38 L
(H) 2021/09/18 Duke 30 - Northwestern 23 W
(H) 2021/09/11 Virginia 42 - Illinois 14 W
(H) 2021/09/11 Syracuse 7 - Rutgers 17 L
(A) 2019/09/21 Boston College 30 - Rutgers 16 W
(A) 2019/09/14 Pittsburgh 10 - Penn State 17 L
(A) 2019/09/07 Syracuse 20 - Maryland 63 L
(A) 2018/09/22 Boston College 13 - Purdue 30 L
(A) 2018/09/08 Duke 21 - Northwestern 7 W
(H) 2018/09/08 Pittsburgh 6 - Penn State 51 L
(A) 2018/09/08 Virginia 16 - Indiana 20 L
(H) 2017/09/09 Virginia 17 - Indiana 34 L
(H) 2017/09/09 Duke 41 - Northwestern 17 W
(A) 2017/09/09 Pittsburgh 14 - Penn State 33 L
(N) 2017/09/02 Louisville 35 - Purdue 28 W
(A) 2016/09/24 Wake Forest 33 - Indiana 28 W
(A) 2016/09/17 Duke 13 - Northwestern 24 L
(A) 2016/09/10 North Carolina 48 - Illinois 23 W
(H) 2016/09/10 Pittsburgh 42 - Penn State 39 W
(H) 2015/09/26 Wake Forest 24 - Indiana 31 L
(H) 2015/09/19 North Carolina 48 - Illinois 14 W
(H) 2015/09/19 Miami (FL) 36 - Nebraska 33 W OT
(H) 2015/09/19 Duke 10 - Northwestern 19 L
(A) 2015/09/19 Pittsburgh 24 - Iowa 27 L
(A) 2015/09/19 Virginia Tech 51 - Purdue 24 W
(H) 2015/09/07 Virginia Tech 24 - Ohio State 42 L
(H) 2014/09/20 Pittsburgh 20 - Iowa 24 L
(H) 2014/09/20 Syracuse 20 - Maryland 34 L
(A) 2014/09/20 Miami (FL) 31 - Nebraska 41 L
(A) 2014/09/06 Virginia Tech 35 - Ohio State 21 W

So, bowl matchups are much different than regular season matchups. I'd separate those into two groups and look at them separately. Preparation, player availability, approach, etc. are all different for a bowl game than a regular season game. Bowl games shouldn't be ignored, but just aren't the same.

So, removing bowl games, the record is 13-17.
H: 6-9
A: 6-8
N: 1-0

There are a few outliers, but most are fairly evenly matched teams.

From this, the B1G has a slight edge, but nothing meaningful to me.

 

[bobongo]

So, bowl matchups are much different than regular season matchups. I'd separate those into two groups and look at them separately. Preparation, player availability, approach, etc. are all different for a bowl game than a regular season game. Bowl games shouldn't be ignored, but just aren't the same.

So, removing bowl games, the record is 13-17.
H: 6-9
A: 6-8
N: 1-0

There are a few outliers, but most are fairly evenly matched teams.

From this, the B1G has a slight edge, but nothing meaningful to me.

Mmm. It's a bowl game for both teams.

 

[yeti92]

Mmm. It's a bowl game for both teams.

I think his point is that bowls aren't nornal games though. Some teams are happy to be there, others disappointed (see Tech in 2018). Also particularly the last 5ish years, you have a lot of guys who are often top contributors on their teams skipping playing in their bowl games to stay healthy for the NFL, which can have a major effect on how a team performs. Consider also that you have coaches who may be leaving or have left for their next position, leaving interim guys in charge. They just aren't really a great measure of much anymore.

All that being said, even with the overall record, the ACC is basically going 2-3 against the Big 10. That's not bad.

 

[bobongo]

I think his point is that bowls aren't nornal games though. Some teams are happy to be there, others disappointed (see Tech in 2018). Also particularly the last 5ish years, you have a lot of guys who are often top contributors on their teams skipping playing in their bowl games to stay healthy for the NFL, which can have a major effect on how a team performs. Consider also that you have coaches who may be leaving or have left for their next position, leaving interim guys in charge. They just aren't really a great measure of much anymore.

All that being said, even with the overall record, the ACC is basically going 2-3 against the Big 10. That's not bad.

Mmm. Not too many bowl games lost by the ACC jump out as fitting the description of a team that doesn't want to be there playing a team that does. They just got beat, that's all.

20-29 overall isn't horrible, but it's still 41%.

Nothing to be down about, though - we're still a P-5 conference. We're competitive. And the ACC did win 3 championships in the last ten years to the B!G's one. So, there's that.

IIWII.

 

[JacketOff]

So, bowl matchups are much different than regular season matchups. I'd separate those into two groups and look at them separately. Preparation, player availability, approach, etc. are all different for a bowl game than a regular season game. Bowl games shouldn't be ignored, but just aren't the same.

So, removing bowl games, the record is 13-17.
H: 6-9
A: 6-8
N: 1-0

There are a few outliers, but most are fairly evenly matched teams.

From this, the B1G has a slight edge, but nothing meaningful to me.

Same guy that says if you take out some of the ACC vs SEC rivalries that the ACC is equal to the SEC. You can’t just start removing games. The ACC is very clearly behind the SEC and B1G, and there would be zero advantage to Georgia Tech if we were currently in the B1G as opposed to the ACC. The ACC’s top tier teams are still on a financial level where GT can compete with them. The same cannot be said for the SEC and B1G

 

[stinger 1957]

eetech, I'm not saying what you are saying about UT Austin and also what you say about A&M are going to happen, but it would not surprise me at all. Think you could be right. When I'm looking at the Big 10 I keep 2 things in mind that seem rather apparent to me. They want big media mkts and the schools, with one exception of ND, have to be AAU schools. They have said they would take ND not being an AAU school. What I have put together that is behind the AAU requirement is that they, and I agree, believe the survival chances of an AAU school are much better in the higher education field. There are many and I am one of them that believe education in the USA is in for some drastic changes in the future. The engineering and technological schools will have the best chances it seems is the thinking.
There is one other thing that is noticeable and that is the Big 10 seems to also want to follow the NFL in where they go/ who they take in , but that is probably more a function of big media mkts as that is a preference of the NFL, not every case, IE: Green Bay, New Orleans and maybe another case or two I'm not thinking about.
VT, Miami, Clemson are not AAU schools. Clemson brings nothing to the table in the way of noticeable media mkts, neither does FSU. Appears schools like Ole Miss, MSU, Auburn, ARK and others do not bring much to the table when it comes to long term $, basically media mkts. By the way UT Austin, A&M are both AAU schools. Mizzou is AAU, St. Louis (21) and KC (33) media mkts. UF is AAU, not sure they would go or not. Ideally from a media mkt standpoint the Hurricanes look to me like something Big 10 would like, tons of Big 10 people Tampa, Orlando, Ft. Lauderdale, Miami, Naples etc. In the ACC GT, UNC, Duke, UVA, Pittsburgh are AAU schools. Something tells me Duke does not make it in CFB long term. Questionable if Big would want UVA, they don't carry a lot of eyes I've read somewhere, people in the DC/Baltimore mkt don't pay much attention to them. Big 10 already has PA with Penn State.
Obviously I don't know how any of this comes out, but it will get interesting it appears.

 

[bobongo]

Same guy that says if you take out some of the ACC vs SEC rivalries that the ACC is equal to the SEC. You can’t just start removing games. The ACC is very clearly behind the SEC and B1G, and there would be zero advantage to Georgia Tech if we were currently in the B1G as opposed to the ACC. The ACC’s top tier teams are still on a financial level where GT can compete with them. The same cannot be said for the SEC and B1G

I agree with all of that, except just to note that if GT were in the B!G, we'd have the money they have. Probably not happening, though, anyway.

I think we should focus a lot more on how wisely we spend the money than on how much we have of it. We have much more control over the former than the latter.