Conference Realignment

[orientalnc]

I can see where the elevation of the SEC matters to schools like FSU and Clemson, but we haven't been in that group since 1990. And even then the AP gave it to Colorado.

I want us to be good enough to challenge for the ACC championship and get a decent bowl bid (if the bowls continue to exist). I don't see us being a genuine threat to uga in the near future, so undefeated isn't likely to happen for us. I am one of those fans that sees what the he thinks is the reality of our situation and decided to enjoy what I can. I started this thread 314 pages ago when it looked like the B1G was about to make a move. Now it's all about the SEC campaign for dominance.

 

[bucknellbison31]

@orientalnc any insight into the UNC BoG? It's my understanding that they now get to approve or veto any conference changes (which effectively means that UNC can't leave without dragging NC State with it). Is that true? If so, that's good news for the ACC.

 

[orientalnc]

@orientalnc any insight into the UNC BoG? It's my understanding that they now get to approve or veto any conference changes (which effectively means that UNC can't leave without dragging NC State with it). Is that true? If so, that's good news for the ACC.

It is my understanding that the ACC Bylaws have not changed. There are some decisions that require a unanimous vote and others, like conference expansion that can be decided with 3/4 vote. As for UNC and NCSU, the NC legislature voted on a proclamation that said UNC and NCSU had to be in the same sports conference. I do not think anyone believes that is a legal bar to UNC leaving the ACC and NCSU remaining. Leaving the ACC does not require a vote.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

“He not busy being born is busy dying.”
-Bob Dylan

 

[stinger78]

So with 26 years of football champions and the SEC has won 15 of them and you think that is not a significant difference! Really! The next closes conferences have 4 in 26 years. That is what causes the National perception that the SEC has been the best football conference. There is no argument they have dominated winning the National Championship! The media is correct when they say they have been the best conference as winning the NC is what matters the most in the media world! As I said before people don't care about the lower tier of any conference!

Nobody, certainly not I, can dispute that the SEC is often the best at the top. I am asserting that top to bottom it’s not the dominating group it’s made out to be.

But let’s look at how all those titles were won. For many years, under the BCS, the top two teams were chosen to play, excluding all others. How were they determined? By polling. How was polling influenced? By the narrative that the SEC is always the best. There were many years when a 10-1 SEC team played for the MNC and others sat by watching,

It’s better under the CFP but it still happens. We had two 1-loss teams selected to play this season over a 13-0 power conference champ. Both of those 1-loss teams were related to the SECheat.

 

[bucknellbison31]

It is my understanding that the ACC Bylaws have not changed. There are some decisions that require a unanimous vote and others, like conference expansion that can be decided with 3/4 vote. As for UNC and NCSU, the NC legislature voted on a proclamation that said UNC and NCSU had to be in the same sports conference. I do not think anyone believes that is a legal bar to UNC leaving the ACC and NCSU remaining. Leaving the ACC does not require a vote.

Sorry, I might not have been very clear. I was referencing the below article.

Board of Governors approves policy that could stop UNC, NC State from leaving ACC

 

[orientalnc]

Sorry, I might not have been very clear. I was referencing the below article.

Board of Governors approves policy that could stop UNC, NC State from leaving ACC

My UNC neighbor said he is convinced that was already the reality. The UNC president is not switching conferences without the BoG approval. This just put ink to the facts.

 

[RonJohn]

Sorry, I might not have been very clear. I was referencing the below article.

Board of Governors approves policy that could stop UNC, NC State from leaving ACC

Maybe I am just naive, but I don't take such things as far as conspiracy theories. A board of governors has a fiduciary responsibility to the entities they govern. In the case of the UNC System Board of Governors they are responsible for and to the public universities in North Carolina. Many people believe that all people in such positions of power were just born wealthy and spoiled, and that they care about nothing other than themselves. I don't think that full characterization would match many of them. There are some who do try to abuse their power and do crazy things. However, I think that most people in such positions take their responsibilities seriously.

All of that to say that I am not certain that the policy was put in place for the express purpose of preventing UNC from leaving the ACC. It also has the effect of preventing ECU from making very quick decisions to move laterally in conferences. @orientalnc seems to think that it was already policy that the governors had to approve moves before they were made. My impression is that this policy "change" is being overblown because of the infatuation with anything that might/maybe have anything to do with conference realignment. It is good to know, but I don't think it is indicative or predictive of anything.

 

[GTrob21]

B1G now goes with UVA, DUKE, GT and Miami.
SEC goes with FSU, Clemson, VaTech and wait for it....Nebraska

 

[Root4GT]

Nobody, certainly not I, can dispute that the SEC is often the best at the top. I am asserting that top to bottom it’s not the dominating group it’s made out to be.

But let’s look at how all those titles were won. For many years, under the BCS, the top two teams were chosen to play, excluding all others. How were they determined? By polling. How was polling influenced? By the narrative that the SEC is always the best. There were many years when a 10-1 SEC team played for the MNC and others sat by watching,

It’s better under the CFP but it still happens. We had two 1-loss teams selected to play this season over a 13-0 power conference champ. Both of those 1-loss teams were related to the SECheat.

AS I have said many times the casual college football fan does not care about the lower tier teams in any conference. only the top teams.

Folks on this board are more than casual fans. How many do you think have a clue about teams like Texas Tech, West Va or Baylor from the Big 12. How about Indiana, oor

Nobody, certainly not I, can dispute that the SEC is often the best at the top. I am asserting that top to bottom it’s not the dominating group it’s made out to be.

But let’s look at how all those titles were won. For many years, under the BCS, the top two teams were chosen to play, excluding all others. How were they determined? By polling. How was polling influenced? By the narrative that the SEC is always the best. There were many years when a 10-1 SEC team played for the MNC and others sat by watching,

It’s better under the CFP but it still happens. We had two 1-loss teams selected to play this season over a 13-0 power conference champ. Both of those 1-loss teams were related to the SECheat.

As we have discussed the casual fan only cares about the top teams. Posters on this board are not casual college football fans in my opinion. How many of us have a clue about teams like Indiana, Illinois, Texas Tech, Houston, Washington State or Arizona State.

Now this board is fairly familiar with Alabama and Georgia as are most casual college football fans. Fandom size matters. Winning championships matters more. Michigan was an afterthought until Harbaugh went there. The AC needs a couple of teams to dominate at the National level. WE have never really had 2 dominant teams.

Yes the SEC has a hype machine. Having Alabama, Georgia and LSU win NC and pour players into the NFL matters. NFL players by conference on opening day in 2023

SEC	367
Big Ten	288
ACC	213
Big 12	207
Pac-12	178

 

[stinger78]

AS I have said many times the casual college football fan does not care about the lower tier teams in any conference. only the top teams.

Folks on this board are more than casual fans. How many do you think have a clue about teams like Texas Tech, West Va or Baylor from the Big 12. How about Indiana, oor

As we have discussed the casual fan only cares about the top teams. Posters on this board are not casual college football fans in my opinion. How many of us have a clue about teams like Indiana, Illinois, Texas Tech, Houston, Washington State or Arizona State.

Now this board is fairly familiar with Alabama and Georgia as are most casual college football fans. Fandom size matters. Winning championships matters more. Michigan was an afterthought until Harbaugh went there. The AC needs a couple of teams to dominate at the National level. WE have never really had 2 dominant teams.

Yes the SEC has a hype machine. Having Alabama, Georgia and LSU win NC and pour players into the NFL matters. NFL players by conference on opening day in 2023

SEC	367
Big Ten	288
ACC	213
Big 12	207
Pac-12	178

It’s that way now after 25+ years of The Narrative. It wasn’t always. Bama has been Bama a long time, but UT was good back in the 40’s to 60’s like Tech. LSU, Auburn, and Florida have had an up and down history as well. UGAg was up and down for a long time, too. They’ll eventually revert.

No one, at least not I, is saying they’re no good, and maybe even not the best. But it’s not some total domination. The other conferences are competitive, and the SEC has gotten many more chances than the rest to play for it all…

It’s not about casual fans. It’s about reality.

 

[Root4GT]

It’s that way now after 25+ years of The Narrative. It wasn’t always. Bama has been Bama a long time, but UT was good back in the 40’s to 60’s like Tech. LSU, Auburn, and Florida have had an up and down history as well. UGAg was up and down for a long time, too. They’ll eventually revert.

No one, at least not I, is saying they’re no good, and maybe even not the best. But it’s not some total domination. The other conferences are competitive, and the SEC has gotten many more chances than the rest to play for it all…

It’s not about casual fans. It’s about reality.

The ACC football conference was not a good conference in the 1970s or 1980s. Clemson 1981 was the only undefeated team. Generally the top ACC team had 2 losses and the 2nd place team has 3 or 4 losses. The ACC only cared about BB in the 70s and 80s.

In the 1990s FSU owned the ACC in football once they joined in 1992. Obviously we won an MC in 1990 but fell flat quickly after that.

There is plenty of evidence and reality that the SEC has been a better football conference than the ACC for many decades. There were some ACC teams that were great but rarely more than one any given year. VT was good but not great when they joined in 2004. Then they went down hill starting in 2012. Miami never lived up to what they were prior to joining the ACC.

 

[Vespidae]

It’s that way now after 25+ years of The Narrative. It wasn’t always. Bama has been Bama a long time, but UT was good back in the 40’s to 60’s like Tech. LSU, Auburn, and Florida have had an up and down history as well. UGAg was up and down for a long time, too. They’ll eventually revert.

No one, at least not I, is saying they’re no good, and maybe even not the best. But it’s not some total domination. The other conferences are competitive, and the SEC has gotten many more chances than the rest to play for it all…

It’s not about casual fans. It’s about reality.

Here’s the Narrative. Do any of these look familiar? The Top 25 highest spending football programs (2021). If you want to be in the CFP, spend more than $120 million a year ….

Ohio State – $215,209,566
Michigan – $180,841,523
Texas – $173,648,028
Alabama – $173,141,125
Texas A&M – $159,136,624
Penn State – $157,908,311
Oklahoma – $157,494,527
Florida State – $155,656,855
LSU – $155,591,015
Wisconsin – $149,196,055
Iowa – $149,161,886
Michigan State – $148,453,353
Tennessee – $140,824,626
Kentucky – $140,578,623
Florida – $139,935,182
Louisville – $138,830,169
Georgia – $138,757,891
Auburn – $135,816,431
South Carolina – $133,776,318
Clemson – $131,781,294
Washington – $128,976,495
Minnesota – $124,818,508
Arkansas – $123,857,351
Illinois – $121,638,435
Oregon – $120,884,588

 

[stinger78]

Here’s the Narrative. Do any of these look familiar? The Top 25 highest spending football programs (2021). If you want to be in the CFP, spend more than $120 million a year ….

Ohio State – $215,209,566
Michigan – $180,841,523
Texas – $173,648,028
Alabama – $173,141,125
Texas A&M – $159,136,624
Penn State – $157,908,311
Oklahoma – $157,494,527
Florida State – $155,656,855
LSU – $155,591,015
Wisconsin – $149,196,055
Iowa – $149,161,886
Michigan State – $148,453,353
Tennessee – $140,824,626
Kentucky – $140,578,623
Florida – $139,935,182
Louisville – $138,830,169
Georgia – $138,757,891
Auburn – $135,816,431
South Carolina – $133,776,318
Clemson – $131,781,294
Washington – $128,976,495
Minnesota – $124,818,508
Arkansas – $123,857,351
Illinois – $121,638,435
Oregon – $120,884,588

That’s a narrative, but not The Narrative. There’s some dogs on that list.

 

[Vespidae]

That’s a narrative, but not The Narrative. There’s some dogs on that list.

Read closer. Eight of those teams are SEC. They aren’t just hoping for good press. They are spending big money for the chance to be competitiv. The ACC? Two.

You could create two taglines.
SEC: It just means more.
ACC: It doesn’t mean much.

The ACC, except for two, doesn’t have the fanbase, the program dollars, or institutional support other programs do. And it has struggled to expand outside basketball. If you want to change the Narrative, change the reality.

There’s more to it than good press. Go to Knoxville. Or Oxford. Or most any SEC school. There’s constant construction of new facilities, new investment, more recruiting.

When UT won the natty, they did it for one reason. They took advantage of USC and opened an LA recruiting office. Anyone could have. Miami could have. But UT did it. Was that “good press”? Or a good decision?

I don’t have SEC Derangement Syndrome. They put on a good product, invest in it, and are constantly looking for expansion opportunities. Professionally run. Good for them.

ND hires the ex programming head from NBC as AD. Good move.

Tech was a national power as a member of the SEC. Our own history benefitted from it. And we continue to pay the price by leaving it to go independent. We begged to join the ACC the way SMU did.

The ACC has structural problems that are difficult to solve. Sad, but true. The SEC looks like a conference that is well run and providing massive value to its members. And the same goes for the B1G. But if you want to be relevant, get the wallet out. That has more to do with it than good press.

 

[Root4GT]

Read closer. Eight of those teams are SEC. They aren’t just hoping for good press. They are spending big money for the chance to be competitiv. The ACC? Two.

You could create two taglines.
SEC: It just means more.
ACC: It doesn’t mean much.

The ACC, except for two, doesn’t have the fanbase, the program dollars, or institutional support other programs do. And it has struggled to expand outside basketball. If you want to change the Narrative, change the reality.

There’s more to it than good press. Go to Knoxville. Or Oxford. Or most any SEC school. There’s constant construction of new facilities, new investment, more recruiting.

When UT won the natty, they did it for one reason. They took advantage of USC and opened an LA recruiting office. Anyone could have. Miami could have. But UT did it. Was that “good press”? Or a good decision?

I don’t have SEC Derangement Syndrome. They put on a good product, invest in it, and are constantly looking for expansion opportunities. Professionally run. Good for them.

ND hires the ex programming head from NBC as AD. Good move.

Tech was a national power as a member of the SEC. Our own history benefitted from it. And we continue to pay the price by leaving it to go independent. We begged to join the ACC the way SMU did.

The ACC has structural problems that are difficult to solve. Sad, but true. The SEC looks like a conference that is well run and providing massive value to its members. And the same goes for the B1G. But if you want to be relevant, get the wallet out. That has more to do with it than good press.

Well said

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Read closer. Eight of those teams are SEC. They aren’t just hoping for good press. They are spending big money for the chance to be competitiv. The ACC? Two.

Four actually. FSU, Clemson and Louisville are listed. Miami spends that much but since they are a private school their unreported numbers never get them on these lists. Just like ND.

 

[stinger78]

Four actually. FSU, Clemson and Louisville are listed. Miami spends that much but since they are a private school their unreported numbers never get them on these lists. Just like ND.

OK, so how so you carry on a cogent conversation with that?

 

[WreckinGT]

Read closer. Eight of those teams are SEC. They aren’t just hoping for good press. They are spending big money for the chance to be competitiv. The ACC? Two.

You could create two taglines.
SEC: It just means more.
ACC: It doesn’t mean much.

The ACC, except for two, doesn’t have the fanbase, the program dollars, or institutional support other programs do. And it has struggled to expand outside basketball. If you want to change the Narrative, change the reality.

There’s more to it than good press. Go to Knoxville. Or Oxford. Or most any SEC school. There’s constant construction of new facilities, new investment, more recruiting.

When UT won the natty, they did it for one reason. They took advantage of USC and opened an LA recruiting office. Anyone could have. Miami could have. But UT did it. Was that “good press”? Or a good decision?

I don’t have SEC Derangement Syndrome. They put on a good product, invest in it, and are constantly looking for expansion opportunities. Professionally run. Good for them.

ND hires the ex programming head from NBC as AD. Good move.

Tech was a national power as a member of the SEC. Our own history benefitted from it. And we continue to pay the price by leaving it to go independent. We begged to join the ACC the way SMU did.

The ACC has structural problems that are difficult to solve. Sad, but true. The SEC looks like a conference that is well run and providing massive value to its members. And the same goes for the B1G. But if you want to be relevant, get the wallet out. That has more to do with it than good press.

In 2021-2022 UVA spent over 150 million. So add them to the list. Can't wait to see them in the playoffs soon.

 

[yeti92]

Here’s the Narrative. Do any of these look familiar? The Top 25 highest spending football programs (2021). If you want to be in the CFP, spend more than $120 million a year ….

Ohio State – $215,209,566
Michigan – $180,841,523
Texas – $173,648,028
Alabama – $173,141,125
Texas A&M – $159,136,624
Penn State – $157,908,311
Oklahoma – $157,494,527
Florida State – $155,656,855
LSU – $155,591,015
Wisconsin – $149,196,055
Iowa – $149,161,886
Michigan State – $148,453,353
Tennessee – $140,824,626
Kentucky – $140,578,623
Florida – $139,935,182
Louisville – $138,830,169
Georgia – $138,757,891
Auburn – $135,816,431
South Carolina – $133,776,318
Clemson – $131,781,294
Washington – $128,976,495
Minnesota – $124,818,508
Arkansas – $123,857,351
Illinois – $121,638,435
Oregon – $120,884,588

Is there a "full" list somewhere? As was mentioned by Augusta, Miami is likely on this list but private, I'd have to think USC is as well and a little surprised UCLA isn't on the list.

Also as mentioned, there are 5-6 teams on the list who are never going to compete for a natty. Arkansas for example spent all that money to go 4-8, their best season of the last decade was 9 wins, and they have more losing seasons than winning seasons since their last double digit win season. They are flushing huge amounts of money down the drain chasing a dream that's never going to happen.