College football is a mess

[Root4GT]

Right. Agreed on that - but as I said, it all depends on how quickly dominoes start to fall. If the Dartmouth players form/join a union, then within a week you could see Rutgers players voting to join, or Clemson, or uGA, etc, etc. It could take a lot longer than that - but once the collective is established with some higher-caliber players, their leverage starts to increase.

But we're in agreement at the start - Dartmouth has no obligation to come to the table with their athletes if their athletes are ICs. But as soon as other schools get involved, it gets more complex.

Insight into the ruling by the NLRB. Worth the read on how they define work and compensation that they used to say the basketball players are in fact Employees of Dartmouth. They are not Independent Contractors per the ruling.

NLRB - Dartmouth Basketall insights

 

[iceeater1969]

The IRS has specific rules for the dermination of employee verses independent contractor.
The purpose is to get FICA payments.

In late 80s the giant oil boom ( 4$ / bbl to 40$/bbl then back to 8$) alkng w collpse of auto put tremendous stress on staffing of energy projects. A lot of start up inspection businesses looked the other way when hiring " independent contractors ". They had the IC sign agreement they would pay their own FICA. Congress passed very strict laws that punishing companies for technical violations w huge flat rate fines. I think it was 10% of gross pay , 20% penalty per year not filed and interest.

Gradually the rules became clear and for a decade everyone was paying fica properly. Then thier was another round of govt ACTIONS that required tests of "independence" to be an IC. Litigated for years.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Insight into the ruling by the NLRB. Worth the read on how they define work and compensation that they used to say the basketball players are in fact Employees of Dartmouth. They are not Independent Contractors per the ruling.

NLRB - Dartmouth Basketall insights

This was one person's interpretation. With the NIL and the rulings that there are no restrictions on movement, that interpretation won't stand. It's about control of action and now with this being the wild west, so many of the restrictions are gone.

 

[cpf2001]

I don’t see the lack of transfer restrictions as an issue for FTE classification, at-will is already a common rule for FTE already. The Hollywood and pro sports union systems still seem very relevant regardless. Independent contract actor = still a union member. Sign up for one or more movies = sign up for one or more seasons.

 

[Richard7125]

I think it’s likely that instead of trying to cram a college athlete into the defined definitions of independent contractor or employee, a new category (or subcategory) will be created. It might fall into independent contractor or it might fall into employee, but there will be tweaks specifically tailored for college athletes. It could very well be a hybrid of the two.

 

[forensicbuzz]

They’re also not full time throughout the year. Yes, they’re in school year-round now, but workouts and training are not compulsory (although they really are if you want to be part of the team. In addition, the athletic-related activity hours per week are also limited to 4 hours a day in-season and much less off-season. So, student athletes, “working” 20hr/week, cannot be not considered full time employees, period. So many things just being ignored to promote a narrative.

 

[stinger78]

They’re also not full time throughout the year. Yes, they’re in school year-round now, but workouts and training are not compulsory (although they really are if you want to be part of the team. In addition, the athletic-related activity hours per week are also limited to 4 hours a day in-season and much less off-season. So, student athletes, “working” 20hr/week, cannot be not considered full time employees, period. So many things just being ignored to promote a narrative.

Yes. SA’s work under a contract called an athletic scholarship. Those likely will have to be tweaked to line up with IRS definitions, but they will have to pay SECA and estimate quarterly.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Yes. SA’s work under a contract called an athletic scholarship. Those likely will have to be tweaked to line up with IRS definitions, but they will have to pay SECA and estimate quarterly.

This is not accurate. Only the scholarship football and basketball players have full scholarships. In addition, the walk-ons and preferred walk-ons are not on scholarship. Of all the student-athletes at Tech (or any university) only a small minority are on full scholarship. So, you can't use the grant-in-aid as the basis for a work contract. In addition, the Ivy League and all Division III do not offer athletic scholarships.

 

[stinger78]

This is not accurate. Only the scholarship football and basketball players have full scholarships. In addition, the walk-ons and preferred walk-ons are not on scholarship. Of all the student-athletes at Tech (or any university) only a small minority are on full scholarship. So, you can't use the grant-in-aid as the basis for a work contract. In addition, the Ivy League and all Division III do not offer athletic scholarships.

Some of the minor sports used to have partial scholies. Maybe no more, but used to be.

 

[gtee91]

Some of the minor sports used to have partial scholies. Maybe no more, but used to be.

I thought Title 9 mandated that an equal number of full scholarships had to be offered to women's sports...so I thought many "minor" sports had full to match the football ones

 

[forensicbuzz]

I thought Title 9 mandated that an equal number of full scholarships had to be offered to women's sports...so I thought many "minor" sports had full to match the football ones

To achieve compliance with Title IX, schools must adhere to three components: accommodating student interests, proportional financial assistance, and equal benefits and opportunities.

The proportional financial assistance in sports refers to scholarships. I believe the rule is that the total number of scholarships given are apportioned according to the male/female ratio of the student body. It is not based on how many full scholarships are given, but the total number of scholarships made available.

 

[forensicbuzz]

The issue with employment and student-athletes is that it doesn’t stop with the revenue sports. This will apply to all student athletes, whether they’re on scholarship or not. The money has to come from somewhere. The current budgets of most athletic associations are essentially break-even.

Something will have to give. I expect that football will eventually be spun off and out of the university and NCAA basketball will be what pays for all other sports. I expect much of that will come from the NCAA tournament. Title IX will be covered with Men’s and Women’s basketball.

Many smaller programs will disappear because high major programs will no longer pay for a lower level team to have play-for-pay games.

I believe many varsity Olympic will become non-varsity sports and self-fund. They may get funding from supporters, but the budgets from the athletic associations will be much limited.

There will be an uproar, but they’re all complicit in the dismantling of the system. People who want to watch college football and basketball will still be able to do that. The number of schools fielding top varsity programs will be wildly reduced. This may not be a bad thing. Back to being students first. It’s been a long, long time.

 

[Ramble1885]

*reads title*

*clears throat*

GRASS IS GREEN Y'ALL

 

[yeti92]

*reads title*

*clears throat*

GRASS IS GREEN Y'ALL

I prefer bluegrass

 

[MacDaddy2]

The issue with employment and student-athletes is that it doesn’t stop with the revenue sports. This will apply to all student athletes, whether they’re on scholarship or not. The money has to come from somewhere. The current budgets of most athletic associations are essentially break-even.

Something will have to give. I expect that football will eventually be spun off and out of the university and NCAA basketball will be what pays for all other sports. I expect much of that will come from the NCAA tournament. Title IX will be covered with Men’s and Women’s basketball.

Many smaller programs will disappear because high major programs will no longer pay for a lower level team to have play-for-pay games.

I believe many varsity Olympic will become non-varsity sports and self-fund. They may get funding from supporters, but the budgets from the athletic associations will be much limited.

There will be an uproar, but they’re all complicit in the dismantling of the system. People who want to watch college football and basketball will still be able to do that. The number of schools fielding top varsity programs will be wildly reduced. This may not be a bad thing. Back to being students first. It’s been a long, long time.

Buzz, we are in REAL danger of being one of those smaller programs you reference. if we are not invited to the Big Boy show, Tech athletics will essentially become Georgia Southern and playing in the Sunbelt. The proposed expenditure of $100M on a new athletic building in the North Zone, is, in my opinion, irresponsible, if we are relegated to second tier status.

My proposal if we aren't invited, go all in on basketball by joining the Big East and drop football altogether.

 

[7979]

Some of the minor sports used to have partial scholies. Maybe no more, but used to be.

still do....

 

[stinger78]

Buzz, we are in REAL danger of being one of those smaller programs you reference. if we are not invited to the Big Boy show, Tech athletics will essentially become Georgia Southern and playing in the Sunbelt. The proposed expenditure of $100M on a new athletic building in the North Zone, is, in my opinion, irresponsible, if we are relegated to second tier status.

My proposal if we aren't invited, go all in on basketball by joining the Big East and drop football altogether.

We will play what is perceived as “lesser ball,” but the ACC is going nowhere. There are some 18 or so teams in the conference now. A large group would remain.

 

[billga99]

Buzz, we are in REAL danger of being one of those smaller programs you reference. if we are not invited to the Big Boy show, Tech athletics will essentially become Georgia Southern and playing in the Sunbelt. The proposed expenditure of $100M on a new athletic building in the North Zone, is, in my opinion, irresponsible, if we are relegated to second tier status.

My proposal if we aren't invited, go all in on basketball by joining the Big East and drop football altogether.

So we are willing to let Ga. State, Ga. Southern and Kennesaw St. be Division 1 football programs and we drop out? I would also bet much of the Athletic Fund donations are directly because of a football program. Yes if we don't make a cut in the Big 2, will it have a major impact, yes. But I for one will still contribute to the Alexander Tharpe Fund as long as we are playing competitive football in the next tier (if need be). Finally the 100M was given through specific donations allocated to that purpose. You just can't switch the money to other purposes when people directly pledge to building a new athletic building.

 

[Ramble1885]

Buzz, we are in REAL danger of being one of those smaller programs you reference. if we are not invited to the Big Boy show, Tech athletics will essentially become Georgia Southern and playing in the Sunbelt. The proposed expenditure of $100M on a new athletic building in the North Zone, is, in my opinion, irresponsible, if we are relegated to second tier status.

My proposal if we aren't invited, go all in on basketball by joining the Big East and drop football altogether.

you must consider that even if the ACC becomes relegated to second tier, we can still stay in the ACC if we do not join the big boy table. The ACC will not just cease to exist. Sure it would be a bummer and we wouldn't be as prestigious but we can stay in the ACC and still keep football in the equation.

 

[MacDaddy2]

"even if the ACC becomes relegated to second tier"

As Ricky Bobby said "if you aren't first, you're last". Reality is no one will give a **** and there is nothing that will look more ridiculous than a $75M athletic building overlooking a stadium that averages less than 20K per game in attendance. GT is literally fighting for its athletic relevance.